FRANKIE1579
Member
What is highvic if you don't mind me asking?
-
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Fusarium Spp.
- Thread starter FRANKIE1579
- Start date
Have you tried Rootshield WP? I didnt see it listed in your original post, however it is in that pdf file you linked.
Seems like it would be a good, safe product to use during flower.
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FRANKIE1579
Member
After all that work, about 10 days later plants were not growing correctly. Pulled 5 out by the stem and the same exact symptoms. Am completely stumped how it was still in the grow environment, much less regained a foothold, but it did. Time to call it quits. Fought this problem for 5 months and honestly can say tried everything. Good luck to the rest of you guys.
M
mugenbao
Wow, that sounds just incredibly frustrating! Condolences and best wishes man, I hope you can start up again at some later date with nothing but smooth sailing in the future!
emeraldcityog
Member
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carlo87
Member
Hi man, you've got maximum solidarity from me. I had the same problem three years ago, I stopped growing to resume this year, I cleaned everything with pure bleach and quaternary ammonium salts ... nothing to do, he always comes back, plus here in Europe many products as Physan20 Zerotol and 2.0 are not available. I'm desperate I do not know how to do, even to those who ask for help.
BuTtsEcKS420
New member
Has anyone ever tried this?
Has anyone ever tried this?
http://www.biocomes.eu/update/fusarium-spp-update-december-2016/
http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/2689/organic-lawn-care?gclid=CjwKEAiAz4XFBRCW87vj6-28uFMSJAAHeGZbejH7hqOtDwyyoPKXxT_pt5qJSawmzzt1wPL3ukBpIxoCV8Dw_wcB
Has anyone ever tried this?
http://www.biocomes.eu/update/fusarium-spp-update-december-2016/
http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/2689/organic-lawn-care?gclid=CjwKEAiAz4XFBRCW87vj6-28uFMSJAAHeGZbejH7hqOtDwyyoPKXxT_pt5qJSawmzzt1wPL3ukBpIxoCV8Dw_wcB
FRANKIE1579
Member
If this was for me, this pathogen was spread out over several facilities and it re-occured at every single one following disinfection and new genetics. I walked away from growing after close to a year of that and not finding a adequate preventative even for new genetics before it drove me insane. Had multiple knowledgeable consultants and experts all throw around their advice and guarantees and each time it came back. Am currently testing an experimental technique on several small plants in just a small 10X10 room just out of curiosity to see how that goes but certainly would never enter into the commercial side again unless I knew there was an effective and consistent control for this pathogen.
FRANKIE1579
Member
https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...epage&q=trichoderma fusarium rockwool&f=false
Relatively effective preventative, but if spores remain or are reintroduced to environment it returns. Pretty much back to square 1 in my experience, as if spores did not remain or did not become reintroduced to environment, none of these measures would be necessary after disinfection and new genetics.
I am currently experiencing this. Trichoderma Harzianum and sterilization are my two strongest tools against infection. I'm not optimistic at this time. Please, reach out to me directly if you can. I'm very interested in speaking with you more directly.
Check your direct messages.
FRANKIE1579
Member
Hi big dog sorry I just saw this, reply sent.
this must be what ive had the last 5 years!
my first 3 years of growing i did dwc and ebb n flow in hydroton and had thick white roots
i wanted organic and made up a soil and the plants yellowed early and didnt finish i tried some ocean forest and got root aphids,
tried to go back to hydro and couldn't grow worth a crap. zone etc... would work for awhile, couldn't root in rockwool at all,rooting in small cups of coco ,roots start white then the ends get yellow redish wet spots then get thin and brown eventually.
so ive been limping by in coco feeding tea every time and still mid flower the roots go thin brown & brittle, ive noticed if i put plants outside in the same coco pots or in the ground they start growing new better looking roots, sometimes ill get lucky and half my plants will stay healthy through most of flower
my first 3 years of growing i did dwc and ebb n flow in hydroton and had thick white roots
i wanted organic and made up a soil and the plants yellowed early and didnt finish i tried some ocean forest and got root aphids,
tried to go back to hydro and couldn't grow worth a crap. zone etc... would work for awhile, couldn't root in rockwool at all,rooting in small cups of coco ,roots start white then the ends get yellow redish wet spots then get thin and brown eventually.
so ive been limping by in coco feeding tea every time and still mid flower the roots go thin brown & brittle, ive noticed if i put plants outside in the same coco pots or in the ground they start growing new better looking roots, sometimes ill get lucky and half my plants will stay healthy through most of flower
BuTtsEcKS420
New member
Experimenting with working around the disease
Experimenting with working around the disease
So here is my experience working with this disease. Every time I have tried growing indoors ever since this disease started they've all died 5 times in a row from the exact symptoms everybody here has described about fusarium spp. But when I grew outside I would have a 50-50 chance of plants making it in plants that don't, I would notice first hand is the plant would completely stop growing and then later I just Wilt and die around the third the fifth day and I would find out why experimenting with nutrients and also sprays as well. Every time I have had a plants catch this disease the reason why is because the nutrient or spray was in a contaminated area and when I used it it would instantly catch the disease but when I didn't and kept the nutrients and spray far away from a contaminated area they would grow just fine. Also I noticed the disease would contaminate things that were organic a lot easier as well.
Experimenting with working around the disease
So here is my experience working with this disease. Every time I have tried growing indoors ever since this disease started they've all died 5 times in a row from the exact symptoms everybody here has described about fusarium spp. But when I grew outside I would have a 50-50 chance of plants making it in plants that don't, I would notice first hand is the plant would completely stop growing and then later I just Wilt and die around the third the fifth day and I would find out why experimenting with nutrients and also sprays as well. Every time I have had a plants catch this disease the reason why is because the nutrient or spray was in a contaminated area and when I used it it would instantly catch the disease but when I didn't and kept the nutrients and spray far away from a contaminated area they would grow just fine. Also I noticed the disease would contaminate things that were organic a lot easier as well.
FRANKIE1579
Member
It's funny, but I visited one of the old spots where this outbreak occurred. There was a house and several warehouses on site. The owner had about 100 healthy looking plants growing outdoors. Every time he tried growing indoor the same thing happened to him and fusarium would appear. Very confusing.
FRANKIE1579
Member
So there is not a cure folks, at least not at this time. But there is a very effective preventative.
It took me 2 years of my life obsessing and testing, and it's not a magic bullet. I haven't tested for fusarium. I just can't find signs of it anywhere and plant growth is 100% normal.
It's not one single solution. Its a combination of 6 different synergistic products. Not very expensive thankfully. I am currently running a nursery where all the signs were there, and now, absolutely nothing. No clean up, no sterilizing, it just can't get a foothold.
I would happily give this knowledge away freely if I had not spent 2 years of my life devoted to this and it almost broke me losing everything due to it, but I guess persistence pays. I will be fine tuning and marketing this formula down the road.
A few hints in the right direction.
Don't just look at oxidizers, beneficial micro organisms and all those things to "fight" fusarium. It just out competes the beneficials and laughs at oxidizers unless you kill the plant. Some of these are part of the puzzle but not all of it.
Learn about plant nutrition. Thats the single biggest part of the f**ked up puzzle that is fusarium. I stand by what I said, if you can "cure" fusarium then you deserve a nobel peace price. This isn't a cure. It's simply suppression so it has a very hard time gaining a foothold in the rhizosphere. I'll leave it at that.
It took me 2 years of my life obsessing and testing, and it's not a magic bullet. I haven't tested for fusarium. I just can't find signs of it anywhere and plant growth is 100% normal.
It's not one single solution. Its a combination of 6 different synergistic products. Not very expensive thankfully. I am currently running a nursery where all the signs were there, and now, absolutely nothing. No clean up, no sterilizing, it just can't get a foothold.
I would happily give this knowledge away freely if I had not spent 2 years of my life devoted to this and it almost broke me losing everything due to it, but I guess persistence pays. I will be fine tuning and marketing this formula down the road.
A few hints in the right direction.
Don't just look at oxidizers, beneficial micro organisms and all those things to "fight" fusarium. It just out competes the beneficials and laughs at oxidizers unless you kill the plant. Some of these are part of the puzzle but not all of it.
Learn about plant nutrition. Thats the single biggest part of the f**ked up puzzle that is fusarium. I stand by what I said, if you can "cure" fusarium then you deserve a nobel peace price. This isn't a cure. It's simply suppression so it has a very hard time gaining a foothold in the rhizosphere. I'll leave it at that.
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Stickybred420
Active member
man do i hope that you are the first one to figure it out. you are a soldier! mucho respect amigo. sorry it took so long to get that shit tamed. the new "F" word forsure.
I had this problem for two grows.. then it completely went away once my temps went down to 78 in the room with lights on, and then 73 to 72 with lights off with 55% humidity. I have not seen one sign in last three grows. Before that I was having humidity spikes and my temperature was in the mid 80s with lights on.. also 5 mill of sm90 per gallon in every rez change..
Heat is the true culprit is what I have learned. And if your pot is too big as well, and you plant is not utilizing all the water quickly. But it seems there are deeper strains of this that will linger from what all you have been describing. I'm just voicing what helped me kick it.
Heat is the true culprit is what I have learned. And if your pot is too big as well, and you plant is not utilizing all the water quickly. But it seems there are deeper strains of this that will linger from what all you have been describing. I'm just voicing what helped me kick it.
so back to frankie1579 was saying towards the last post, almost indicating he would give his method/findings/actions with payment maybe. one can only speculate his motive... maybe trying to market his own product eventually. not sure.... either way if it helps someone out down the road its a positive thing.
First. Calling frankie1579 a selfish piece of trash in the end. Why? its quite simple..... He starts a thread here seeking information an requests help from others. For a bunch of posts he does provide usefull information,as do others, but then in the end he suggests he is withholding information. Chooses to be selfish an announces he is witholding new information that could be helpfull. SHAME on you frankie1579, this is why we still should have negative rep!!!! Post 77, paragraph/ line 4
bottom line, we need to learn, an lately i find myself reading from the greenhouse big agg industry and university papers
something noted in my readings of ag papers, noted that certain fungi/spores/pathogens if u will, thrive in higher nitrogen environments. now there are 3 different types of nitrogen. one of the possible accelerators of the spores could be linked to the type of nitrogen. there is nitrate, ammoniacal an urea.
so if your veg nutrient is high in these ammoniacal or urea nirtogen, u may be feeding the problem so to say...
again i am not a horticulture botanist or scholar by any means. im wondering if ammoniacal an urea type nitrogens speed up/ feed / help reproduce the spores we are seeking to destroy. this nitrogen i believe will supply the plant with the fastest nitrogen. an because of that, it is most likely the easiest source of food for the fusarium spores.
also....... if you use "nitrogen fixing bacteria" this may aid in the development of fusarium spores..
any thoughts..??
i myself recently started using poolshock (Calcium Hypochlorite) in every watering. plants that have been in a veg stasis the past months have started growing again.
current pool shock treatment is
45 grams of 68% poolshock/calcium hypocchlorite to one gallon of ro.
then that stock solution i use 3 mill per gallon in my hand watering feeds. let the plants dry down. an always under size the pot so things dont stay to wet for days.
so far i have seen positive results. any standing reservoir gets 4 mills per gallon every 3-4 days.
clean every container, scissors, plant stakes ph meters with the stock solution. sterile sterile sterile..
Now the pool shock will not kill the main fusarium cells if they are thick walled, but it will kill the spores an prevent spreading. something im still learning on is the life cycle if these diseases.
only thing at this point of my reading i have found says heat or chemical can kill the thick walled cells. oxidizer sterilization will only go so far.
If a fungi has setup in the stem of the plant, it can and will be passed with new cuts.
i am currently trying banrot in veg stages only. 1.5-2mills per gallon.
** banrot is systemic, an it may not be the best choice for cannabis. but at this point i am trying as i have lost so much already. it has been a steady decline the past 2 years and last 6months have been bad. i have had a seriously huge reduction across the board of both quality an yield. Plants have wilted an died 20 days before harvest.
**I would even go as far as to say, Fusarium or pythium could be the main reason this term " Dudding " has been thrown around. As well as with stem nematodes, Fusarium can setup in the stems, reproduce an cause blockages of vital plant water an nutrients.
******Looks like some have been using a safe product called Zerotol 2.0. Zerotol maybe the choice right now!! But it looks like a preventive an rootzone cure. it does not appear to be systemic, so if something was already in the stem ,it would not cure. It is also good to point out that if zerotol is used, it will most likely kill off any of your other beneficial bacterias. so using og biowar or myco or trichoderma would be useless an counterproductive.So i would think that at this point of using zerotol, u are going to a sterile reservoir.
It is hyrdogen peroxode and Peroxyacetic Acid. Now at current $170 a gallon price seems expensive for 27% hydrogen peroxide an 2% Peroxyacetic Acid. quick calculations, one like me may benefit from mixing my own when you maintain 6/700+ gallons on a weekly basis. https://www.biosafesystems.com/zerotol-2-0/ ****
some links
https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19610300692
https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/PHYTO.1997.87.12.1250
https://www.biosafesystems.com/zerotol-2-0/
a suggestion that biochar could suppress.
as well as zinc an copper.
***last edit 12/4/18, 12/7/18,12/10/18 any " * " indicates something that was updated. i will edit this post as i go and change or add information as it becomes relevant.***
First. Calling frankie1579 a selfish piece of trash in the end. Why? its quite simple..... He starts a thread here seeking information an requests help from others. For a bunch of posts he does provide usefull information,as do others, but then in the end he suggests he is withholding information. Chooses to be selfish an announces he is witholding new information that could be helpfull. SHAME on you frankie1579, this is why we still should have negative rep!!!! Post 77, paragraph/ line 4
bottom line, we need to learn, an lately i find myself reading from the greenhouse big agg industry and university papers
something noted in my readings of ag papers, noted that certain fungi/spores/pathogens if u will, thrive in higher nitrogen environments. now there are 3 different types of nitrogen. one of the possible accelerators of the spores could be linked to the type of nitrogen. there is nitrate, ammoniacal an urea.
so if your veg nutrient is high in these ammoniacal or urea nirtogen, u may be feeding the problem so to say...
again i am not a horticulture botanist or scholar by any means. im wondering if ammoniacal an urea type nitrogens speed up/ feed / help reproduce the spores we are seeking to destroy. this nitrogen i believe will supply the plant with the fastest nitrogen. an because of that, it is most likely the easiest source of food for the fusarium spores.
also....... if you use "nitrogen fixing bacteria" this may aid in the development of fusarium spores..
any thoughts..??
i myself recently started using poolshock (Calcium Hypochlorite) in every watering. plants that have been in a veg stasis the past months have started growing again.
current pool shock treatment is
45 grams of 68% poolshock/calcium hypocchlorite to one gallon of ro.
then that stock solution i use 3 mill per gallon in my hand watering feeds. let the plants dry down. an always under size the pot so things dont stay to wet for days.
so far i have seen positive results. any standing reservoir gets 4 mills per gallon every 3-4 days.
clean every container, scissors, plant stakes ph meters with the stock solution. sterile sterile sterile..
Now the pool shock will not kill the main fusarium cells if they are thick walled, but it will kill the spores an prevent spreading. something im still learning on is the life cycle if these diseases.
only thing at this point of my reading i have found says heat or chemical can kill the thick walled cells. oxidizer sterilization will only go so far.
If a fungi has setup in the stem of the plant, it can and will be passed with new cuts.
i am currently trying banrot in veg stages only. 1.5-2mills per gallon.
** banrot is systemic, an it may not be the best choice for cannabis. but at this point i am trying as i have lost so much already. it has been a steady decline the past 2 years and last 6months have been bad. i have had a seriously huge reduction across the board of both quality an yield. Plants have wilted an died 20 days before harvest.
**I would even go as far as to say, Fusarium or pythium could be the main reason this term " Dudding " has been thrown around. As well as with stem nematodes, Fusarium can setup in the stems, reproduce an cause blockages of vital plant water an nutrients.
******Looks like some have been using a safe product called Zerotol 2.0. Zerotol maybe the choice right now!! But it looks like a preventive an rootzone cure. it does not appear to be systemic, so if something was already in the stem ,it would not cure. It is also good to point out that if zerotol is used, it will most likely kill off any of your other beneficial bacterias. so using og biowar or myco or trichoderma would be useless an counterproductive.So i would think that at this point of using zerotol, u are going to a sterile reservoir.
It is hyrdogen peroxode and Peroxyacetic Acid. Now at current $170 a gallon price seems expensive for 27% hydrogen peroxide an 2% Peroxyacetic Acid. quick calculations, one like me may benefit from mixing my own when you maintain 6/700+ gallons on a weekly basis. https://www.biosafesystems.com/zerotol-2-0/ ****
some links
https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19610300692
https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/PHYTO.1997.87.12.1250
https://www.biosafesystems.com/zerotol-2-0/
a suggestion that biochar could suppress.
as well as zinc an copper.
***last edit 12/4/18, 12/7/18,12/10/18 any " * " indicates something that was updated. i will edit this post as i go and change or add information as it becomes relevant.***
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