Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[Miraculous Meds]

where do you get your BTI powder from?
thx

I get mine under the name brand gnatrol wdg (38% bti). about $400 for a 5 gal bucket or so. Its quite a bit as I think the dosage is between 2 to 4ml per gal for light infestations, n 4 to 8ml for severe infestations.

 

[StankyBeamer]

Microbe lift bmc. Way more concentrated than gnatrol, dunks, or bits. Two drops in a gallon, and you're good to go. I have had zero success with any bti product, microbe lift was just the cheapest most concentrated option. For me, pyrethrin, permethrin, and soap were the cure. Haven't had gnats buzzing around in a good four or five months knock on wood

 

[*Pho20*]

I'm pretty sure it works on anything thats eating away your root system, if aphids are present already on buds id say get some ladybugs or some sticky tape. My buddy had aphids on his indoor that was while it was raining outside so ants somehow made there way in and showed up on his buds trying to eat the aphids. looks like it could be root aphids or fungus gnats. just let your shit completely dry out before drenching your medium

The ants are actually eating the honey dew the aphids are producing and in turn transporting them around your grow

Ladybugs and sticky tape can only go so far(I'm not a big lady bug fan indoors) mosquito dunk is also ineffective against aphids

 

[Terpz]

Small Update on my treatment method given a few pages back :: Ran out of GoGnats for a week. I was sure not to transplant or bring any untreated soil into my garden during this time. The FG ended up getting slightly out-of-hand. Once I got GoGnats and continued treatment, I noticed minimal decrease. I ended up getting BTI dunks to help out. I applied 1/4tsp to each gallon pot and 1/2 tsp to the 5gals. It has been 12 days since applying BTI and I barely see a flyer. I am continuing with azotrol, gognats and DE as a preventative. Moral of the story.. small problems left untreated become big problems. Best!

 

[bfree123]

Few days post soak with acephate and riptide. Leaves are yellowing and frying more than before. My Soil was not very dry. Maybe I needed to let it dry before dunking. It was like 1/2 dry. Another fail treatment I'm not surprised. These things have made it difficult to grow anything in my yard as well.

 

[Sluicebox]

That's good news Terpz! Way cheaper too.

bfree123, not sure but sounds like this is your second treatment with the riptide/orthene? Try up potting those to the next size real quick if at all possible. I don't know what medium your using but fresh soil helps. Once you add even mild fertz the burn will increase. Though it seems like natural nutes in soil do not burn, no idea why. All of my leaves that burned fell off plant eventually. I'm at day 55 flower after treatment, knock on wood no RAs. However this is about half the harvest I would have gotten had I tossed them and started over. In my case I would only be looking at a 3 week setback. Now days I keep a back up set ready to slide in just in case. Then looking at flipping some plants within a week vs trying to hurry and take cuttings. 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Seriously if your in soil try the up pot, transplant to at least the next biggest container you can find. Two sizes up would be even better. Best of luck.

PS, you're in a unique position to run an easy experiment for the rest of us. I would love to know if a very mild foliar feed helps at all. Particularly cal/mg. I have a feeling this burn we all see is really just severe cal/mg lock out, due to root problems or wild PH swings from treatment. Flushing only makes it worse. The fact that I had good results by up potting lends proof to my theory. If you choose not to up pot, please single out one or two and try very diluted cal/mg foliar feed. Even better if possible would be worm tea brewed not the lechate from the bins, foliar that on a couple as well. Don't forget to label plants and take notes. This may make you famous.

The plants that I up potted after treatment when small, are now some of the best that I have ever grown, very green and healthy. At time of treatment with Orthene/Riptide they were in Solo cups. I just transplanted them into 7 gal pots today and they all had fat snow white roots. I owe that to better soil and lots of worm castings. I'm not even seeing fungus gnats since switching to heavy top dress of worm castings. I have read they naturally contain the beneficial nematodes that wipe out the larvae. The castings also make the plant produce it's own bug killer that attacks the harmful insects. Messes up their exoskeleton, when they bite the plant they get a dose. Feeding as a tea really gets this going, foliar is almost immediate. Hope that helps you, I know exactly how frustrating this can be.

 

[expealadocious]

A layer of play sand on top of your plants really fucks those things right up...
Neem meal, crab meal, and a little sand and say goodnight.... hey you can even finish your grow... just scrap the soil after... sand also prevents flyers from contaminating pots that dont have an issue..
Cheers

 

[Bongstar420]

If this condition is *just* the result of RA, it will be a breath of fresh air to me. I had RA bad with little noticeable effect outside of slow undesirable plants that were otherwise some fast fire veg wise. I still harvested fire with 100 walkers per sqft of floor space and the plants were not as fussy as they are now with 0 observable RA anywhere.

I do have RA (I say that in the post hoc sense as I had them but can't find them even with daily inspections), but my symptoms were actually less when I first discovered them at fairly high population levels. Now the symptoms are increasing and there isn't any indication of RA presence outside of entomology.

I did discover a new presence that people probably should start thinking about- root mites. These guys are facultative parasites in IMO...like fungus gnat

If you have RA, just apply Botanigaurd every 3-5 days for a month then every 10-20 days after that if you do not trash the grow and cook the place during clean up....that and you should consider that you will get new infestations no matter what you do unless you have a space station rig. I had 95% control after 1 week with no observable RA at 1 month.

Botanigaurd is not optimally formulated. Do a little digging, and you should find ways to make this stuff perform better than the bottle formula.

What I'd like to hear about is if people are experiencing dudding without encountering BM/CM

[This posting edited 3/6/10 - as this is clearly a widespread epidemic and many more are bound to flock to this thread, I have edited the first post to be more manageable and yet comprehensive. The sections are all well labeled so you can easily browse the post for the info you need. Facts/data are labeled with "-" as bulleting, discussion is not.

PLEASE contribute to this thread if you have ANY applicable data to share. It is worth noting that this thread is a combination root-aphid discussion and also phantom "magnesium deficiency" leaf-death forum. If you have one or BOTH of these issues, please contribute information as to your conditions, especially if you had bad problems with one of these issues, figured out a solution and have improved results since. Thank you! - Willie Broheim]


To all those out there with mysterious nutrient "deficiencies" or "toxicity," particularly with symptoms that look like magnesium deficiency:

Please check your medium and (if possible) root system with high-magnification (10X +). If you have "fungus gnats" - find one (dead or alive) and magnify it:


You just MAY have root-aphids, the best kept worst secret of indoor growing.

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Discussion of my experience - unaware of the problem (I thought mag-deficiency) not knowing about aphids]:
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My experience lately has been the same with my last 6+ grows in two different rooms in my house with multiple different strains and in a number of different mediums (coco, soil, hydro in hydroton, hydro in coco croutons) and with different nutrient lines (Cutting Edge, GH, Canna Coco A&B, Humbolt Master Bloom).

In every case, in each location and with every medium/nutrient line I have the SAME problems either in late veg or early bloom, not long (1-3 weeks) after I put them under HPS light. After they look extremely healthy throughout VEG, I start to see a leaf here and there with random "blotches," generally at or near the leaf edges, then at the tips - patches where the leaf is papery, tan and obviously dead. Then the patches grow larger, progress to all tips of the leaf which often curl (when dead). Then many other leaves start taking on a bit of a sickly look, getting intervenal chlorosis and becoming more translucent and turning a lighter, more sickly green. Then most of the well-established, healthy fan leaves (middle-aged) all start to "get it" and die of progressively, while the plant continues to grow and put out new shoots on the main growth points. When it is really bad, most of the leaves die off before I can even bloom and last time it happened I scrapped the ENTIRE round.


##############
NOTE to ALL: Please post if you have experienced these symptoms. Do you have root aphids? What are your growing conditions? Have you solved or lessened the problem (bloomed well without it happening)? What methods/products have you found effective in treatment?
##############


I have long thought of the problem as a magnesium deficiency and have done EVERYTHING to address it: got an RO unit, used CalMg regularly (trying different CalMg products), added MagAmp (a chelated magnesium product - like better available epsom salts) and backed off on nutrient strength/changed ratios/changed nutrients/used "drip clean" - pretty much everything. - Yet nothing solved my "magnesium deficiency"... which I have recently been made aware was lot more than that!

----------------------------------------------------



I have only recently discovered that I have root aphids... I have probably had them for some time now. The little black gnats in my house that I have not been able to kill/get rid of with any number of solutions actually turn out not to be fungus gnats at all...


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IMPORTANT NOTICE TO EVERYONE WITH FLYING "GNATS"
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Your "gnats" may actually be winged versions of the aphids living on your roots!!!

View Image

You were a movement-starter. Thank you, Scay Beez!]

 

[Terpz]

What I'd like to hear about is if people are experiencing dudding without encountering BM/CM

Wrong Thread, Bong. Check https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285539

 

[Bongstar420]

Wrong Thread, Bong. Check https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285539

Really....its incorrect of me to ask on an RA forum if RA only resulted in dudding?

...or how about duds from fungus gnats.

Or is dudding an issue in itself not related to another factor?

Or do you just get your jollies telling people they are in the "wrong" place?

I mean really, its wrong of me to want to know on an RA forum if RA led to a syndrome which persisted in the absence of RA?

That forum includes every thing a plant could have wrong with it.

I want someone exclusively dealing with RA and nothing else to say yay or nay to duds 6 mo after the plague. A dud is any plant that isn't what it was before the plague.

 

[bfree123]

I have tried acephate and riptide in the past separately and not as a soak. I am in supersoil potting Soil with 20‰ worm casting. Keeping plants in fresh pots often especially right before flowering has been the only thing that helps. Transplanting well into flower won't help, roots are done growing. Foliar doesn't help. Any fertilizer fries plants unless it's in soil to start.

I tried dwc out of curiosity and to see my roots for awhile. Plants actually did much better but the smell was lacking. It's crazy how sick plants get with an infestation you almost can't find.

 

[Sluicebox]

I had 8 different strains in room that got RAs, none of them dudded. One strain (Fire OG) nannered at 40 days likely due to a lighting problem. Currently all remaining are frosty, though not top shelf imo. I won't try to save them next time, not worth it. This time of year I usually have my best crops. Current run looks like unmanaged Summer indoor. Pulling all that crap out in a week. From now on I'll have back up plants in veg standing by.

bfree123 Great post! Good information there. Thanks.

 

[Sluicebox]

For what it's worth someone may find this interesting. I noticed some fungus gnats a few weeks ago. I top dressed with fresh worm castings about 3" deep. The castings dry out fairly quick after watering pots. I'm thinking the dry layer deterred them from laying eggs as I have not seen any since then. I don't think the castings choke off the air to the container like sand might tend to do. Besides the plants love it.

 

[GET MO]

anyone know what these are?

 

[Sluicebox]

Still searching that for you, but flying ants have bent antennae and termites have straight antennae. Also wings on termites are the same size on each side of body. While ants are of different sizes. I'm leaning toward termite. That's maybe good news as I don't think they farm aphids like ants. Bad news for your structure though. I'll keep digging. Might be a good idea to post that on a fly fishing site or send pic to exterminator.

 

[GET MO]

the three spikes on the tail end probably the best point of identification, plus the stripes. I was thinking maybe some kind of tiny wasp. Its way smaller than any termite or ant ive seen, about the same size as a fungus gnat, this is under the usb microscope. I live out in the woods so its all type of little bugs flying everywhere...

 

[Sluicebox]

You must have had a bit of nice weather and caused a hatch. You're likely right about the wasp theory. Your local exterminator should know what it is. I know a lady here who calls them for every bug she sees. Not at all knocking you, if that were on my plant I'd be asking too. All I'm saying is he has likely gotten calls on it especially lately as others are experiencing the same hatch. Worth a shot. Good luck.

 

[Plant tanner]

Need to form a plan

Need to form a plan

Hi all made it through 60 pages

I have just picked up granules and a bottle of met 52,botanigaurd,guard,og bio root pack,

I alredy have gnatrol and og folier pack ,azosol ,bac subt , root bloom ,mycos etc... .

I have been using a hi brix method with 7 gal gro more pots ( lots of holes) have been using rock powders, bio char,bokashi ,aact and natural mistic as a folier

Pretty clear its ra

Ordered nematodes
Looking at getting hypoas milas ? And rove beetles but I want to reduce their numbers before depending on beneficial insects and going completely broke
Also plan on poisoning a nasturtium with a systemic and using it as bait

If anyone can give some feed back on how to build the met colonies or which ones to apply and can be mixed or application rates I appreciate it

 

[LightItUpChris]

Been awhile, but as it is approaching the summer season, which is usually the time these this explode and swarm outside, i figured i would post.

I had dealt with a massive RA attack over the last five years because of their prevalence outside in the area i am in. Dogs track them in, people track them in, and they fly and crawl in from the yard. Although the bright side is they die off every winter because of the snow and cold temperatures. So it is a spring seasonal shift when the ground temperatures rise above 60F that they begin to hatch and swarm. These things go from a microscopic stage to an adult flyer. By the time you see the flyer, you are likely getting your but kicked. You would laugh if you saw how many of these things are outside flying and crawling around in the summer time here. So here is a couple tips that helped me fight back.

The things that have been working for me. Think of them what you will.

1. Double vent filter any fresh air coming in from outside. Tape and filter any passive air coming in.

2. Vacuum and clean areas consistently. Once a week at least.

3. Kontos (instecticide/miticide) at 0.5 ml-1ml per gallon in early veg after the roots have taken. Than possibly again in the bigger containers before flower, depending on your paranoia of bugs.

4. Hot Shot No Pest Strips. Bought at home depot. Hung around the bases of mothers and in early flowering room. Use 1-2 per light based on infestation amount. I had my doubts but these things provide 24 protection, and have a friend who killed an infestation with these alone.

5. Use a medium that is harder to penetrate for small young aphids. Sounds like common sense, but I switched from Hydroton ebb and grow to a Soil style medium, and noticed a huge difference in infestation amounts. Make sense because those hydroton is easy pickins' for a meal compared to what the RA's in my area usually have to face for a meal. The large air spaces in the hydroton allowed the yound RA's easy root acess. The Soil style medium has a little more protection for the roots. I saw this first hand with side by side comparsion of an infestation.

6. Make sure all medium brought into the indoor grow area is fresh and sealed from a reputable distributer. Stuff that hopefully hasn't been siting in an outside area prone to intrusion. (Home Depot is crap, bought stuff there that was pre infested, and couldn't get rid if the massive amount of eggs already present). The medium from a hydrostore, as long as it is a sealed package, is usually very good. Preferably they have it stored inside.

Bottom line is clean, clean, clean. And use insecticides carefully, rotating them eventually to avoid resistance.

Smoke one, and create a RA prevention strategy for the spring summer. It might be well worth it.

Thanks for all who have posted, your tips have helped me win the battle for now.

 

[LightItUpChris]

Hey Plant Tanner,


wanted to throw a shout out there. i tried using botanigaurd and found that it didn't work. by the time there was a noticeable infestation it took to long to build a bacterial colony to amounts that were sufficient to combat the massive RA attack. Seemed to just coat the roots in more slime. Might be a good try if you are already a good ways into flower. Maybe with a light infestation or as a preventive botanigaurd might work. but that it just my humble opinion.

I lost half of my harvest 10 months ago in a massive summer attack, but have come back from that. Went from 0.6 per light on that one, to just pulled 2.3 per. on o.g. kush on the last one. You can do this.

keep up the fight, amigo.