Fermented plant extracts

[One Love]

JK, I have a small comfrey plant that was purchased at an herb festival. I am looking to transplant this into one of my flower beds outside, but was wondering what kind of light it requires. I have a couple of places that I would like to put it, but they are kind of low light, and not sure if they will strive under those conditions. Any suggestions?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

OneLove

The supplier that JayKush and I bought our Comfrey from has the following information about cultivating this plant:

How do I plant it?

You take the cutting out of the bag of moist coir and plant it with the roots down in the ground and the crown up toward the light. Firm the soil around the cutting and leave a bit of the crown and any leaves up out of the soil and in the light. Water it after you transplant it. Comfrey is not only a cell proliferant to human or animal tissue, it is a cell proliferant to its OWN tissue, so it will grow agreeably fast. If you get several cuttings, plant them from 1 to 2 feet apart, in regular garden soil, in the full sun to part shade. Comfrey will suffer if it gets too dry, so water it weekly, at least. Plant anytime ground can be worked. Comfrey is shipped in all seasons. More directions come with the cuttings when we ship them.

Can I plant it in a pot?

Comfrey pretty much hates growing in pots, and if you want to kill it, potting it up is a good way to start. But if you are really careful and keep it watered just so and in the light and give it sandy soil mixed with compost in a really big pot you can indeed keep it in a pot, for awhile, at least. It will try to send a root out the drainage hole of the pot and find some real dirt.

HTH

CC

 

[jaykush]

JK, I have a small comfrey plant that was purchased at an herb festival. I am looking to transplant this into one of my flower beds outside, but was wondering what kind of light it requires. I have a couple of places that I would like to put it, but they are kind of low light, and not sure if they will strive under those conditions. Any suggestions?

it really depends on your climate, but honestly it will grow in a lot of places. i grow it in almost full sun. gets about 6-7 hours of full sun. but they are watered a lot until there taproots get into the subsoil, and in time you will have to care for it less. i would say give it a good amount of sun, but the main thing is where you put it in the ground. you can take it out, but pieces of root you dont get will grow back. so its permanent in an odd way so place well. other than that is is a beautiful plant. if you want them to produce the most leaf possible, give them sun sun sun and water water water.

clackamas, i grow comfrey in pots for making my divisions. start them in 1 gal pots then move them to the ground where you want them.

 

[habeeb]

when i have tested this, i was doing it for the beneficial microbes more than nutrients. only use the healthiest of specimens, preferably ones with tolerances that are desired( pest resistance, mold resistance, etc...) i wouldn't suggest anything normal or sub par.

-how long is alfalfa tea good for when you make it?

most of the time it gets used before it goes bad, a few months from personal experience. though if not kept in check, it can be a breeding ground for mosquitoes.

-how much do you use per gallon for veg of the fermented "tea" ?

to get the full "fermentation" process you really need to add a sugar source. though they will slow ferment without one and become a nutrient tea. even with a very dilute amount ( i use honey ) will show faster and more complete breakdown of material.

-is there a general rule how much alfalfa to use per gallon when making the fermented tea?

just know the more you add and the longer it sits, the stronger it is and the more you have to dilute. as a close guide id say 1 cup per gallon is a start. though i dont measure anything.

Jay, you are the man. once again thank you for the overload of information you bring everyone every time you post..

 

[One Love]

thanks guys. I will probably devote a small bed to the comfrey and just let it grow the whole thing out.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

jaykush

My comfrey root starts arrived this morning. I purchased a #25 SmartPot last week which holds about 24.7 gallons (about 3.5 cf) so I'm hoping that this is large enough to get them started.

On another note about plant extracts and lacto bacteria, in doing some research on fermented foods around the world I found a 'fermented bamboo shoots' eaten in Nepal and in Northern India.

The Nepalese call it 'mesu' and the Indians call it 'kardi' and here's a summary of the lactic bacteria levels in these items - 327 strains.

I'm looking into using the Japanese fermented soy bean food item called 'natto' as well as miso.

It'll be fun if nothing else.....

CC

 

[maryjohn]

natto is a great way to tell if you are going to a real japanese restaurant. The chinese run places don't bother with natto.

We eat fermented (stinky) tofu all the time. it's the chinese equivalent of cheese.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

maryjohn

The first generation of Japanese-Americans were firmly established by 1909 in Portland. There are tofu houses where you take your own container and they slice off a hunk for you and add the purified water to cover. They also sell the fermented tofu you mentioned as well as fried tofu (to order) which is a very nice product.

There's another house which makes and sells natto and miso (all organic) and it's pretty inexpensive.

 

[jaykush]

My comfrey root starts arrived this morning. I purchased a #25 SmartPot last week which holds about 24.7 gallons (about 3.5 cf) so I'm hoping that this is large enough to get them started.

ahhh great, how are they looking? do any of them have sprouts yet? you will know its easy to tell. now the question is. what do you want these plants for? and really how much comfrey do you want. growing comfrey in pots is not what you would do for harvesting. it defeats a lot of the reasons we grow comfrey. growing in pots is for propagation, making root divisions. and you never want to let them get rootbound. growing in pots is basically just for increasing the plant numbers in a controlled area. i use 1 gallon plastic pots filled with homemade compost with some rock powders. when they are about 6-8 inches they go into there permanent homes.


if you want them for bulk material, i suggest finding a nice spot with lots of sun, and a place you want it to grow forever. prepare a nice area for them, place the plants about 3.5-4ft apart in rows 3 ft apart. comfrey does get big specially once established in a few years. the best time to plant would have been early spring or in the fall. but dont expect loads of material from first year summer plantings. this is what i suggest doing if your looking to make your own soil and fertilizers. you will get lots of leaf for composting and extracts for fertilizers. once established and the taproot has made it to the subsoil, you can expect to harvest at least 3 times a year. 4-5 in warmer climates.

then sit back, watch the plants grow, enjoy the flowers for a few days. then chop chop.

good luck with the fermented foods, fermentation is amazing, and what it can unlock nutrient and microbial wise.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Jaykush

I took your advise and passed on the large SmartPots. I set up a raised bed (10' x 10') and spaced them according to your advice. I put down 12" of a combination of compost and earthworm castings, some pumice and some kelp meal. They're already sending up shoots.

I read your comments on the amount of foliage that I could expect to see next season and my plan is to use a good-sized portion of the 'harvest' to make a 'FPE' from the leaves and then distribute it to others growing MMJ under Oregon's OMMP laws.

There aren't many organic growers yet but it increases a bit by bit each year. The Fox Farm Ocean Forest and their 'nutrients' definitely have a lock-hold with new growers. Sadly enough.

Thanks for your help on getting the correct comfrey plant starts and your information on the best way to grow this plant.

CC

 

[jaykush]

hey coot

the smart pots would be fine for if and when you want to take root divisions, but really i just use 1 gallon plastic pots filled with compost. they do fine. once your comfrey sets down its deep set of tap roots, you will be set to go. they will bring lots of minerals from the subsoil into the big furry leaves they have. they grow quickly but if possible i would avoid cutting them until winter is approaching. since you are just getting to planting them.

you can expect more foliage once the tap root is deep. it will grow like crazy once established. giving 3-5 full harvests a year.

glad to hear your going to be helping others with homemade ferts, showing them how good they actually work and the dank nugs you get.

i am really sad to see most beginners go to fox farm, that route does not teach you how soil works properly.

good luck let us know how everything is going.

 

[habeeb]

from all the info I've read, I'm on my way to experimenting with FPE's. first up is dandelion leaves, as I couldn't resist picking them on a walk.

I found some airlocks from a brewing company along with rubber stoppers, and they seem to be doing the trick for making FPE's, it worked wonderful for cutting EM-1 so I didn't have to mess with opening the top everyday in a glass bottle..

 

[jaykush]

make sure to pick the flowers too! dandelion flowers are just as amazing as the leaves, and its great because you can munch on them too, plus there good for you.

recently i have been using a blender to chop the plants up smaller. throw some water in, some plant material, chop chop and it has decreased the decomposition time by half with some plants(usually high in water content) and of course very small amounts of honey speeds things up as well.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I found some airlocks from a brewing company along with rubber stoppers, and they seem to be doing the trick for making FPE's, it worked wonderful for cutting EM-1 so I didn't have to mess with opening the top everyday in a glass bottle..

habeeb

Thanks for that suggestion. There's a home-brewer outfit in our little berg and they have 5-gallon 'glass jugs' (not plastic) and any number of the airlocks you're planning on using.

I've been wanting to make up a large batch of Activated EM for some MMJ growers and this is the perfect solution.

Many thanks!

CC

 

[ThaiPhoon]

Hey! Awesome to see this thread still going. I have been away for a while. Had a scare, but things are in order now! I am going to be making some fresh brews soon!
Peace

 

[neongreen]

I just got my bokashi bins today

So I've been keeping an eye out for good info, and came across this.

Getting started (Part Three) Newspaper bokashi.
September 30th, 2008

Instead of using expensive bran I ferment newspaper to use between the layers of compost in the bucket.

I take one part lactobacillus serum to one part molasses to six parts water. (label and freeze any extra serum)

I soak a bunch of newspapers thoroughly in the mixture and drain well.

I place the soaked newspapers in a 2 gallon zip lock baggie, remove all the air and seal.

Place in a cool dark spot and wait 10 days to 2 weeks to get a good fermentation.

After the fermentation process I separate and dry the newspaper. It’s now the carrier for the bacteria.

Newspaper bokashi secrets.
October 17th, 2008

Well, not really secrets, mostly common sense.

I’ve never had a failed newspaper bokashi bucket when following these simple rules.

1. Start the bucket with a 1 to 2 inch layer of absorbent materials. (shredded newspaper, peat, sawdust or something similar.) This layer will soak up any excess nutrient drainage. (There’s nothing wrong with faucet buckets, other than the expense. I just prefer to keep things as cheap and easy as possible.)

2. Start your newspaper bokashi bucket with a layer of high carbohydrate waste. This jump starts the fermentation process ensuring success.

3. Place a piece of newspaper between each layer of waste. Make the layers no more than 1/2 an inch think. This ensures that the beneficial bacteria will spread throughout the waste quickly.

4. Chop the waste into small pieces, if possible. This gives the bacteria a larger surface area to feed upon. It also leads to faster final decomposition or digestion when your bokashi is buried, added to worm bins or added to an aerobic compost pile.

5. Compress the layers of waste tightly. This helps exclude air and helps transfer beneficial bacteria throughout the waste rapidly. (I place a piece of bokashi newspaper on top of the waste and press with a potato masher, there’s no mess as with bran bokashi. )

6. Never add spoiled waste to a bokashi bucket. Rotten and moldy waste will introduce rogue organisms that can cause a bucket to fail.

7. Always close the lid lightly to exclude air.

8. Do not add excess amounts of fluids to your bokashi bucket.

9. Collect waste throughout the day and add to the bucket at the end of the day. This minimizes exposure to outside air.

10. Add waste at least once a day. It’s usually not a problem to skip a day or two occasionally, once the bucket is well established.

Good luck with your newspaper bokashi!!!!

More tips and photos here:
http://bokashicomposting.com/

 

[Clackamas Coot]

neongreen

Try using unpasteurized miso or natto (fermented soy bean item from Japan) as an inoculant - you'll be amazed.

Seriously. Organic sake, organic beer, etc. have been used in Japan for centuries for fermenting (bokashi) composting.

HTH

CC

 

[neongreen]

Thanks Coot - I'll give that a try!

Would the miso or natto have to be dried out like the bran after inoculation?

How would the sake/beer be used?

Thanks again!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

neongreen

What I meant to convey (and obviously missed the deal by a few miles) is that when you're making up your basic inoculant, using fermented products like miso, natto, sake, beer, et al) to get the lactobacillus up and running is a good way to introduce a variety of lactobacillus colonies.

For example, a couple of weeks ago there was the annual Portland Organic Brewer's Festival which I went to - I mean who doesn't like hand-made beer? Especially organic beer? LOL

At any rate I was talking with a young man about specific brewing processes to achieve specific flavor profiles and he was brewing a Belgian beer (among others). The specific beer that we were discussing was the Belgian 'lambic' style of beer. I asked him some questions and he told me the specific lactobacillus that is used to create these beers. It's fermented at PH 1.8 or so and the whole 'low PH' paradigm is all across all of the EM-1, BIM, et al. processes.

My friend had his iPhone with him and he looked up this specific lactobacillus used to make 'lambic-style beers' and guess what? It's the exact same strain used to make 'Bulgarian-style yogurt' - go figure.

Interesting deal on the whole anaerobic fermenting processes, IMHO

CC

 

[sophisto]

Wow this thread has come a long way, glad to see it.....Awesome info collected here for the masses...