Entry-level CO2 Extraction

[Rickys bong]

you can reverse the temp and apply heat to the extraction vessel and build up your desired pressure.

If you filled the vessel completely with liquid, there would be no room for expansion and the pressure would spike to the burst disk failure pressure very quickly.

Just wanted to re-visit this, With CO2 and open blast its more of a soak time in a supercritical or subcritical state.. I agree If you just ran it like butane you would need hundreds of pounds but if you heat it to a desired temp then let it soak for a good amount of time between 3 or 4 different runs you should get a nice yield from liquid CO2 or Dry ice.

Why do you believe more THC will dissolve with time? Especially at supercritical pressures, saturation (the maximum amount that will dissolve in a given volume of CO2) occurs virtually instantly. This is why supercritical machines pump massive volumes of CO2 through the sample. Letting it soak will do nothing.

One reference I have gives 0.2g/kg CO2 at 2kpsi. Solubility drops with pressure. Even if you could maintain 2 kpsi you'd need 5kg of CO2 per gram of THC extracted.

Another critical issue is the actual separation of THC from the CO2. If you simply open blast, as soon as the pressure drops in the chamber the dissolved solute will start precipitating Inside the extraction chamber. You need to move the entire volume of gas to another chamber and de-pressurize it there otherwise your yield will be very close to zero.

RB

 

[509strain]

If you filled the vessel completely with liquid, there would be no room for expansion and the pressure would spike to the burst disk failure pressure very quickly.



Why do you believe more THC will dissolve with time? Especially at supercritical pressures, saturation (the maximum amount that will dissolve in a given volume of CO2) occurs virtually instantly. This is why supercritical machines pump massive volumes of CO2 through the sample. Letting it soak will do nothing.

One reference I have gives 0.2g/kg CO2 at 2kpsi. Solubility drops with pressure. Even if you could maintain 2 kpsi you'd need 5kg of CO2 per gram of THC extracted.

Another critical issue is the actual separation of THC from the CO2. If you simply open blast, as soon as the pressure drops in the chamber the dissolved solute will start precipitating Inside the extraction chamber. You need to move the entire volume of gas to another chamber and de-pressurize it there otherwise your yield will be very close to zero.

RB

Ya didn't plan on purging the CO2 straight from the extraction vessel, but I did plan on purging it into a collection container with a back pressure regulator attached and some sort of pressure relief valve set at 250 - 300 psi possibly a venturis inline as well, so in all actuality I will need to move more volume of co2 in cycles vs letting the SCF sit in a static state.

Ok so prob gonna need a second vessel to decompress and reclaim as much CO2 as possible between runs only seems logical at this point. No sense in designing something affordable when your gonna blast thousands of dollars of CO2 out the pipe..

 

[509strain]

If you filled the vessel completely with liquid, there would be no room for expansion and the pressure would spike to the burst disk failure pressure very quickly.

Gonna start out using 7 -10 lbs of CO2 at room temp for a reference point.

Why do you believe more THC will dissolve with time? Especially at supercritical pressures, saturation (the maximum amount that will dissolve in a given volume of CO2) occurs virtually instantly. This is why supercritical machines pump massive volumes of CO2 through the sample. Letting it soak will do nothing.

To test my theories, requires a greater fluid exchange rate

I believe this is what GW was talking about a few comments back and what your explaining as well here.

One reference I have gives 0.2g/kg CO2 at 2kpsi. Solubility drops with pressure. Even if you could maintain 2 kpsi you'd need 5kg of CO2 per gram of THC extracted.

Another critical issue is the actual separation of THC from the CO2. If you simply open blast, as soon as the pressure drops in the chamber the dissolved solute will start precipitating Inside the extraction chamber. You need to move the entire volume of gas to another chamber and de-pressurize it there otherwise your yield will be very close to zero.

RB[/QUOTE]

 

[Crytycl]

I try hard not to discourage others while encouraging experimentation and development.
Ive avoided this issue only cautioning against its poor viability,
Im going to share some of my own figures,
I dont generally like to put incomplete data on the table but I really feel like its time to grant you some hard points of consideration.

My chambers allow for ~1.5#/run.
I pump 4500psi @ 8lpm for 4 hours with almost all material before I stop having detectable extractants in the flow. Other than cosolvents nothing Ive tried has changed the volume exchange to extractant ratio.

There are a number of different approaches but they all require a large number of exchanges. Dry ice charging is fine for small volumes if you can run a multistage thermal cycle instead of relying on pressure cycling but theres some tricky patents to duck dodge and skip around if you decide to run down that rabbit hole.

 

[509strain]

I try hard not to discourage others while encouraging experimentation and development.
Ive avoided this issue only cautioning against its poor viability,
Im going to share some of my own figures,
I dont generally like to put incomplete data on the table but I really feel like its time to grant you some hard points of consideration.

My chambers allow for ~1.5#/run.
I pump 4500psi @ 8lpm for 4 hours with almost all material before I stop having detectable extractants in the flow. Other than cosolvents nothing Ive tried has changed the volume exchange to extractant ratio.

There are a number of different approaches but they all require a large number of exchanges. Dry ice charging is fine for small volumes if you can run a multistage thermal cycle instead of relying on pressure cycling but theres some tricky patents to duck dodge and skip around if you decide to run down that rabbit hole.

dude thats BA.. very encouraging.

 

[Crytycl]

You from Oregon Crytycl ??

I appreciate the boost. I have learned a ton from your knowledge and experience, you seem pretty well rounded in this trade and hope to learn more as I take bigger steps..

Thanks.

Not from here but I dont think anyone in Portland is anymore, but ive been working and living here for a few years. I apologize if I have come off as well rounded, Im just a year or two ahead of you in tinkering with this.

At 41 Im a professional tinkerer who spends most of his mental and physical energy on others designs and ideas. (Un)fortunately, when the reality of the expense hit the people who prodded me into this I lost my funding. But after 16 years of single parenting, my daughters graduated earlier this year. So I decided that I was going to put it all in, go for broke, and bet on the green rush.

Im trying to squeeze in a vacation to clear myself in the next few weeks then Im making a hard push for new years. My kids made me promise that even if this dispensary thing pans out that Ill take a couple of weeks during buildout and runaway to the islands.

 

[509strain]

Not from here but I dont think anyone in Portland is anymore, but ive been working and living here for a few years. I apologize if I have come off as well rounded, Im just a year or two ahead of you in tinkering with this.

At 41 Im a professional tinkerer who spends most of his mental and physical energy on others designs and ideas. (Un)fortunately, when the reality of the expense hit the people who prodded me into this I lost my funding. But after 16 years of single parenting, my daughters graduated earlier this year. So I decided that I was going to put it all in, go for broke, and bet on the green rush.

Im trying to squeeze in a vacation to clear myself in the next few weeks then Im making a hard push for new years. My kids made me promise that even if this dispensary thing pans out that Ill take a couple of weeks during buildout and runaway to the islands.

The dispensary will work, I see em in action everyday, got one close to my house its busy non stop from 9am to 9pm.. And no lie its 3 - 5 people easy day in and out. They have a huge selection of all the finest in the country rumor is they get a ton of flowers from seattle and BC.. Anyways gud luck on your vacation and as single parent you indulge in as much fun as possible man will catch on the boards.

 

[Crytycl]

dude thats BA.. very encouraging.

It is? Hopefully you meant the thermal cycle tip, because the rest should have been sobering.

If your chamber is 4" ID then you have a capacity of 1.25#/ft. You require ~560-1200L SCF. Thats ~500-1000# of dry ice if you do not recycle and assuming my napkin calculations are right.

Im shooting for a drive scalable 30-120lpm pumping system for my system design, But mostly Ill just be happy to be driving direct, If I never rebuild a haskel in my next 20 lives I will still instinctively feel annoyance in my 21st.

 

[Crytycl]

The dispensary will work, I see em in action everyday, got one close to my house its busy non stop from 9am to 9pm.. And no lie its 3 - 5 people easy day in and out. They have a huge selection of all the finest in the country rumor is they get a ton of flowers from seattle and BC.. Anyways gud luck on your vacation and as single parent you indulge in as much fun as possible man will catch on the boards.

oh theres no question one WOULD work. I just dont have one yet LOL. I wasnt planning on opening one as a large portion of my business model revolves around placement and support in/with dispensaries. But after talking with a few dispensaries I realized that the market is to fragmented at this point for that to be a concern.

Ive spent the past few days being refused tenancy. I have 1 very strong possibility with great room for expansion, but no current structure. I meet with zoning and planning tuesday to discuss my ideas. If I can get them to approve my variance then Ive got 2 other lots that I would be tempted to try to secure a development contract on. Ive got 3 locations with walls and ceilings already that I want more, but am doubtful theyll let me in. Until I get a solid no or their mapping becomes ineligible, Im giving it a go.

If I havent locked something down by the end of october it isnt going to happen. At that point, ill either have to pick up agzoned acres somewhere, or find a dispensary willing to let me cuddle their license in exchange for some tech equity. As it seems edibles might not make retail before next summer, might be the only way I can avoid relocating to one of the states I suspect will go rec legal next.

 

[509strain]

Yes the tips, but mainly is that you have a system that produces great results. This is awesome! The more you share your instances it just validates my interest that much more, I like my info raw, good or bad gotta know the inside and out to fully understand and grasp all the functionalities. As long as I can see light at the tunnel I will move keepforward in strides.

 

[Crytycl]

please pay no attention to my cluttered workspace. Heres some eye candy for further inspiration. Just arrived today! NO WELDS!

Ive got some old clamps I can use during pressure testing. Closed die forging stainless is pretty expensive so I want to make sure that Im not changing anything before I move forward there. Besides my times best spent on my new pump design right now.

 

[Crytycl]

Why oh why cant we edit posts?

 

[Crytycl]

GRRRR, last chance, just go there
http://imgur.com/a/q1wd7

 

[509strain]

holy cow !?! Sweet vessels man, hats off those are so effing nice.

 

[509strain]

Why oh why cant we edit posts?

View Image View Image View Image

They really should let peps edit comments it would keep these threads from getting all cluttered..


edited: They do you let you edit after a certain amount of comments, I can now.. LOL

 

[Crytycl]

holy cow !?! Sweet vessels man, hats off those are so effing nice.

Thanks!
its taken quite a bit of time and money to get to this point. Other than, perhaps, thickening the walls in the next batch if burst testing doesnt hit my expectations, I think the main body is done. The most important thing though, unlike all my previous prototypes, experiments, and attempts, this is a manufacturable design. I can have 20 of these by the end of the month if needed with no more than an email and a wire transfer and even significant alterations to the design (ie new length, thicker walls, and flange) shouldnt extend the 1 month delivery time.

There is still a ton to do, but this is a big step in the right direction.

 

[509strain]

Thanks!
its taken quite a bit of time and money to get to this point. Other than, perhaps, thickening the walls in the next batch if burst testing doesnt hit my expectations, I think the main body is done. The most important thing though, unlike all my previous prototypes, experiments, and attempts, this is a manufacturable design. I can have 20 of these by the end of the month if needed with no more than an email and a wire transfer and even significant alterations to the design (ie new length, thicker walls, and flange) shouldnt extend the 1 month delivery time.

There is still a ton to do, but this is a big step in the right direction.

The work never ends.. lol. nice work work tho!

 

[509strain]

Raw pistons.. yeee haw!

hitting the shop at 9am.

 

[Crytycl]

Im desperately trying to ignore my project. Im trying to get this vacation together. Last week got ate by odd scheduling issues at my day job. I was about to pull the trigger and leave today, and I get a return call from a realtor. So monday Im sitting in meetings instead of on a beach.

Ive got an insane amount of work to do so I know I need to take this vacation because it will likely be another year or two before I come up for air LOL.

Im having some personal conflict with my path forward with this project. Build a simple proof of concept extractor and brand it an EOL Model 0 to replenish my warchest, or take on a investor(s) and continue to work towards my full vision. Ive been chasing unicorns for quite awhile, it may be time to shake off the dreams and fantasies and just slap the donkey I have in the ass and get to work.

I need to go sit on a beach and give it all some thought.

 

[Crytycl]

have you given any further thought to closing your loop?
Investigated thermal cycled loops at all?
are you going to precondition your intake or do you intend to just let nature take its course doing the squirt and heat, hoping for the best?