Entry-level CO2 Extraction
- Thread starter Calimed
- Start date
Little screen shot of the new plug wanted to eliminate weight and add more volume to the vessel, pistons are an overkill so I decided to shave off some weight and save some money. Now that I found the seals I can machine the plugs and start testing, I'm not going to reveal how I'm gonna close the plugs until after the prototypes been bench tested, also prob incorporating a thermal cooler into the design so with a few modifications a person can buy a pump and use it in a closed loop application but will wait until the second release for that. Getting excited to hoop stress it..
Feel free to keep whatever secrets to your plan you will, but I am rather curious, Could you explain what you mean by " incorporating a thermal cooler into the design so with a few modifications a person can buy a pump and use it in a closed loop application but will wait until the second release for that."
My points of confusion,
1. are you intending to just run this open blast like a bho kiddie do with PVC?
2. when you say "thermal cooler", are you chasing thermal cycled scrubbing over pressure drop?
My points of confusion,
1. are you intending to just run this open blast like a bho kiddie do with PVC?
2. when you say "thermal cooler", are you chasing thermal cycled scrubbing over pressure drop?
Question 1. Yes its just gonna be a open loop multi-verse reactor, but not limited, the vessel could be used in other co-solvent applications not just co2. Question 2. And with a thermal cooler Incorporated into the design a user could manage the temp and pressure throughout the run/soak time.
you do realize you will need ~3-5# of liquid co2 per pound of plant matter if you open blast? Its very hard to maintain supercritical conditions in a blast as well, Not that liquid CO2 doesnt extract too, its just not quite the same as SCF.
Will you be using an adjustable back pressure regulator? That might reduce some of the dead zones youll get open blasting. you could also cone out your plugs and use a large diameter frit insert as a snubber to help with the issues.
Will you be using an adjustable back pressure regulator? That might reduce some of the dead zones youll get open blasting. you could also cone out your plugs and use a large diameter frit insert as a snubber to help with the issues.
Yes the volume of CO2 needed per run could get expensive depending on the pressure and how many runs you want to preform, I contemplate this regularly and only come back to I need a liquid CO2 booster/pump and another half of a system built. LOL. This first system will be very vague in design, its pretty much a jacketed vessel and jacketed separator with a 300 psi pressure regulator. The only thing adding to the price tag now is the heating & cooling equipment. Ya def cone the plugs and frit insert would work great, I think the pressure reg with the coned plugs will work nice.
your biggest issue with open blast will be maintaining supercritical conditions in the extraction zone. Myself, Id make sure to use a backpressure regulator rather than a regulator. Id also use a braided reinforced teflon to transport the product and carrier away from the extraction chamber.
Using a backpressure regulator allows you to control the pressure of your extraction chamber but it also prevents pressure drop in that region. Pressure drop generally equals temperature drop which means liquid and gas, not supercritical fluid. managing exhaust chill along 4 feet of hose will be much easier than at the chamber directly.
Using a backpressure regulator allows you to control the pressure of your extraction chamber but it also prevents pressure drop in that region. Pressure drop generally equals temperature drop which means liquid and gas, not supercritical fluid. managing exhaust chill along 4 feet of hose will be much easier than at the chamber directly.
Ok.
I decided to use that schedule 304L 80 pipe and for a practice run on the bore, the plan is to take down a couple thousands 3" inside the pipe and go with the piston design, this will cut out a good amount of cost vs the cap and jacketed vessel which 10 days ago I had a new little boy so my wife jacked a couple months worth of my play money, and the ball is rolling I can't afford to wait so this first version will be kinda getto with heating mat and cold bath method. I should have the pipe prepped in the next few days, once the orings come i can machine the pistons and play with the remaining tolerances inside the oring glands. I will report once I get the rest of the machine work finished.
2000 psi on a 6 inch ram is about 30 ton. Now that should give peps an idea how dangerous these pressures are. I'm kinda freaked out. LOL I'm googling right now on seal bursts and what I can expect with different bad case scenarios. ha haa. I'm gonna dig a 6 ft hole and lay it sideways put all the gauges up top that would prob be the safest and cheapest.. This way I can test the crap out of it.. Most important thing to me is the safety..
Your pipe is a 6 inch schedule 80?
You do realize that only gives you ~2kpsi working pressure?
Going open blast as you intend, you really need a vessel capable of 6-8kpsi WORKING PRESSURE....thats your BURST pressure.
If you purchased the capped T seals I recommended, and you are going to secure a plug with a through bar.....you dont need to worry about a seal burst, you need to worry about a vessel failure.
Cut all the corners you want, but for the sake of the rest of us, who wish to continue without massive regulatory oversight, at the very least PLEASE fit your plug with a burst disk rated @ 3000-4000psi and make sure you buy about a dozen replacement discs.
I fail to understand your motivation.
" the ball is rolling I can't afford to wait so this first version will be kinda getto"
you have by your own admission an insignificant sum invested.
you seem to be an intelligent person.
however, you seem to be chasing others failure more than your own success.
can a pipe and plug arrangement perform SCE....yes
can open blast work to SCE...yes but only with very large volumes of supply and very low yields and a questionable scf quality....yes
what do you hope to gain in this exercise?
why risk death or disfigurement to prove what is already known?
you say "Most important thing to me is the safety"
nothing you have proposed errs to the side of safety.
You have a new baby......
what makes you feel so compelled to chase this technology that you would risk that? What makes you feel that you MUST press on....when you are barely a foot out the gate?
You do realize that only gives you ~2kpsi working pressure?
Going open blast as you intend, you really need a vessel capable of 6-8kpsi WORKING PRESSURE....thats your BURST pressure.
If you purchased the capped T seals I recommended, and you are going to secure a plug with a through bar.....you dont need to worry about a seal burst, you need to worry about a vessel failure.
Cut all the corners you want, but for the sake of the rest of us, who wish to continue without massive regulatory oversight, at the very least PLEASE fit your plug with a burst disk rated @ 3000-4000psi and make sure you buy about a dozen replacement discs.
I fail to understand your motivation.
" the ball is rolling I can't afford to wait so this first version will be kinda getto"
you have by your own admission an insignificant sum invested.
you seem to be an intelligent person.
however, you seem to be chasing others failure more than your own success.
can a pipe and plug arrangement perform SCE....yes
can open blast work to SCE...yes but only with very large volumes of supply and very low yields and a questionable scf quality....yes
what do you hope to gain in this exercise?
why risk death or disfigurement to prove what is already known?
you say "Most important thing to me is the safety"
nothing you have proposed errs to the side of safety.
You have a new baby......
what makes you feel so compelled to chase this technology that you would risk that? What makes you feel that you MUST press on....when you are barely a foot out the gate?
It's 4" the Working pressure is 2800 psi. What I'm trying to gain from this exercise is hold 2800 psi for 6 hrs using my piston closure and oring seal. I didn't use a t seal, Im going to be testing with 80 and 90 Durameter nitrile compound a sealant engineer recommended, once I have the 4" closure testing and working at 2800 psi I will buy the 316, schedule 160 and test at 5000 psi. I'm limited on resources for a testing facility so I'm thinking outside the box and my fire pit seems the most logical.
Its my lucky day, My cousin has a friend with access to a high pressure vessel testing facility this should ease everyone's nerves a bit, So my new plan is to construct parts and rigorously bench test, then once I have ran massive in house testing I will send out the vessel and prints to a 3rd party company were it will be re-tested and hopefully certified. Shortly after that I can submit my patent pending application and start recording milestones and updates.. When I stated that "the ball is rolling I can't afford to wait" doesn't mean I have cut corners just means that I'm not going use the end caps and jacket the vessel, I'm using pistons and securing the closures using a cold rolled steel 1" rod, This will cut down a good chunk of cost, I will not have to weld a jacket around the extractor, I will not have to machine threads around the jacket, and will not have to incorporate an expensive chiller/heater and all the parts along with it. This version will be I shouldn't say getto, that was the wrong choice of words, manual is the word I was looking for.. In short WORK.
well Ill have to give you credit for enthusiasm if nothing else. Im anxious to see what patentable feature youve got your mind set to. Myself, Ive always thought them a waste of time and money both of which are better spent elsewhere.
As youre in washington, certification will likely be a breeze once you close your loop, Dont they only require an engineer to sign off on the design being closed and designed to withstand a minimum of 600psi? And as long as none of your vessels go above 6" diameter its really more a question of liability and insurance underwriting than standards compliance.
Im kind of hoping OR makes a more thorough evaluation necessary, and applies a required operational safety factor over a simple minimum standard. Guess ill just have to wait and see
As youre in washington, certification will likely be a breeze once you close your loop, Dont they only require an engineer to sign off on the design being closed and designed to withstand a minimum of 600psi? And as long as none of your vessels go above 6" diameter its really more a question of liability and insurance underwriting than standards compliance.
Im kind of hoping OR makes a more thorough evaluation necessary, and applies a required operational safety factor over a simple minimum standard. Guess ill just have to wait and see
The solubility of THC in liquid CO2 is very small so you would probably need to run hundreds of pounds of CO2 in open blast configuration to get any yield. I have a paper somewhere with specific solubilities of THC at various pressures but can't put my finger on it.
Compounded by the fact that running from a dewar the pressure can't get above 350psi where the solubility is probably close to zero that limits you to running from tanks.
Even at the 800 to 1k psi you can get from a tank the yield is going to be very small from an open blast setup.
Not trying to discourage you but there's a ton of published research data on CO2 THC extraction to research before diving in to something like this.
A wiser approach might be to build a small column to see if you get any return from an open blast setup before scaling up...
RB
Compounded by the fact that running from a dewar the pressure can't get above 350psi where the solubility is probably close to zero that limits you to running from tanks.
Even at the 800 to 1k psi you can get from a tank the yield is going to be very small from an open blast setup.
Not trying to discourage you but there's a ton of published research data on CO2 THC extraction to research before diving in to something like this.
A wiser approach might be to build a small column to see if you get any return from an open blast setup before scaling up...
RB
A little help from a cold bath around the extraction vessel and some heat at the storage tank I'm pretty sure you can get 7 - 10 lbs of CO2 into the vessel, once accomplished (1 hr later or so) you can reverse the temp and apply heat to the extraction vessel and build up your desired pressure. I will have installed a pressure relief disk of the max working pressure of 2800 psi because the pipe is only schedule 80 304 ss with a burst pressure of 11,233, and a working pressure of 2,808.25 psi so if an accidental spike in heat or pressure the vessel will be safe.
You from Oregon Crytycl ??
I appreciate the boost. I have learned a ton from your knowledge and experience, you seem pretty well rounded in this trade and hope to learn more as I take bigger steps..
Thanks.
Just wanted to re-visit this, With CO2 and open blast its more of a soak time in a supercritical or subcritical state.. I agree If you just ran it like butane you would need hundreds of pounds but if you heat it to a desired temp then let it soak for a good amount of time between 3 or 4 different runs you should get a nice yield from liquid CO2 or Dry ice.
