Endless sky 400w DWC

[Illadelph]

ya, i havn't been able to find any that will mount on the inside, allow the range of motion I need, and fit flush, not requiring a gap between the door and the frame.

I was guna get rockwool on the way home from work today, but I forgot what it was that I needed from the dro shop while i was leaving work, so didnt' go.

anyone care to address the questions in my above post that are still unanswered?

 

[algrow12]

the white bucket will let in algee,tape it don't paint it. Paint will flake off. I don't clone but I would just use the net cup not the 3" one but a bigger one like a 5".insted of the plywoop I would get a piace of melamine or mdf board it will hold up better and then you can use 3/8" foam tape around the door and side of the cabinet.did you see why I only let mine get 7 days of veg?

 

[Illadelph]

algrow. Thanks for the reply. Perfect timing too, i just put the clone in that thing tonight, and was wondering about the algea thing. I'm gunna cover it with aluminum tape. A black plastic bag would be nice, but i dont have one. Cameral battery dead, no pics tonight.

 

[jimbob420]

You need hidden hinges, do a search on google for them, I had them lying around so I can't remember where they came from, they work really well.

 

[Illadelph]

Thanks Jimbob, thanks for stoppin in. Please stick around.

Algrow, wasn't that you that was saying that FN Veg isn't worth buying, just use the bloom for both? Is that still the case if you aren't going to put a plant in to bloom at all? (mothers) or should i get the veg formula for that. Sorry if you weren't the one who said that, but I think thats what I remember.

Also, anyone use cool bloom? I have the powder kind, was going to add 1/4tsp per gal tonight. 3rd week of bloom. Thats what the guy at the dro store suggested. Also said to only use 1/4tsp per gal. when the bottle says use 1/2 i think. I was just going to take his word for it. Any comments on that?

Here is a pic of the clone I picked to be a mother. Initially, when I put it in there, the water was real cold, and it didnt' react well. It recovered fully once the water warmed up though. I light proofed the bucket per algrow's advice to inhibit algae growth.






The little lady is complaining about the temps being too hot. Its just a few inches away from the lights, i moved them closer since taking the picture above. What do you think the best way to bring the temps down is. Someone suggested putting a plate of plexi glass just below the lights, using shelf pins, since there are already holes for shelf pins. Doesn't sound like a bad idea, but i'd have to cut a piece out of the sheet of plexi glass becuase my fan is mounted on the insides, and is in the way if i wanted to use that solution.

Do you think adding another fan just inside the box would bring the temps down? or just circulate the hot air thats already in the box? As i mentioned, i think it might have something to do with how close they are to the bulbs, but I'm trying too keep the internodes close together. How far should CFLs be away from the growth tip on a newly rooted clone?

For ventalation right now i have a 4.5" "muffin" fan (exhaust) 125 CFM i believe. thats towards the top, in the top left corner. In the bottom right corner I have a 2" passive intake, with a black PVC elbow over it for light proofing, which is kinda pointless at this point because the front of the cab isn't light proof. Freezer told me to add another passive intake, I think he said you want twice as big an intake as your exhaust. Is that right? But since i have a gap around edge of the door (which isn't even on right now, because i'm trying to cool things down) that that would be enough for now.

As a temporary solution, I opened a window down there because its a little chilly out today, but I am not willing to do that as a permanent solution. Any Ideas?

Right now I'm leaning toward the plexi glass idea, even thought it would be kinda expensive and complicated, because of the whole fan issue. (would have to buy a plexi glass sheet and a cutting tool.) Anyway, we'll see.

 

[algrow12]

Yes it was me that said you don't need the f\n veg just use the bloom even if you don't flower it.the cool bloom is not needed either if I was you I would stay out of the dro store LOL they see you coming just kidding. trust me I know it's hard to do you see the bottles and think I know this will make it bud more and then they say it works I use it on my personal grow at home. I'm not saying it want work I'm just telling you what has worked for 12 grows for me and I don't use it just the 8 ml of f\n bloom and sm90.btw they got me to in the begining I got half full bottles of shit I don't use.I think you need more passive holes like 4 of the 2" ones the glass is not the answer more holes is.and put them real close to the light.thats my 2 cents

 

[Quazi]

You are choking your cab from getting any real intake.

Take FreezerBoy's advice. He knows a thing or two about cooling. Your intake should be at least two times your exhaust.

If you have a 4.5 inch muffin fan then I'm assuming it's round.

That means you have around 16 square inches of exhaust.

The single 2 inch passive intake you have only provides around 3.14 square inches. To get to 2x the intake, you would need approximately 10 of those intakes.

Not only should you consider adding an additional intake, you should consider adding a couple.

-Q

 

[Illadelph]

hey, thanks for all the help guys. Duely noted. I'll tackle that this weekend or something. Until then, i'll just leave the door off. So its not that they are too close to the lights then, its an air temp problem. How many inches from the bulb should the plant be?

algrow, your probably right about the dro store. I'm so desperate for guidance I must be an easy mark.

Edit:

Not to debate any of the advice that You have given, but just thinking about it further after looking at the situation again, I think what it seems like I need to do, is provide more circulation around the bulbs, Keep the bulbs cool, which will in turn keep the cab cooler. Right now i have a big fan blowing at the whole cab, and the bulbs are much cooler to the touch, it just seems to make sense to me. Does that make any sense to anyone else? Maybe some sort of forced intake blowing around the bulbs? not sure how I would do that.

Comments?

 

[algrow12]

You see the black thing in the back of the cab thats what you need it's a dark room vent 12 x 16 the cab stays 67 lights off 72 lights on with a 250 in there. if you don't get the heat out it will just keep getting hotter and hotter just blowing it around but if you pull fresh cool air in and get the hot air out then it will stay cool.

opps little better pic

 

[FreezerBoy]

Stick your hand under the lamp, palm down. Find the distance you can comfortably hold your hand. There's your distance.

From another thread but, illustrates the problem of thinking in small holes. Nine one inch holes do NOT a nine inch hole make. As a matter of fact EIGHTY ONE one inch holes do NOT a Nine inch hole make. You need eighty two for that. EIGHTY, FREAKIN', TWO!



Make it easy on yourself. Buy a hole saw (4",6" 8", you tell me) Cut one port at top for your fan and two at the bottom for intake and you're done.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I am going to do a tutorial on air flow and orifice sizing. Seems like this is the issue that hoses more grows than not.

You cannot go against what Mother Nature has laid out as the rules for us.
She states that the mass of air flowing out of an orifice is equal to the mass flowing into the orifice. That mass is determined by the size of the hole, and the power of the fan.
If a fan could continue to build up increasing pressure and speed, it could overcome the lacking mass that a small intake hole would create, but only if the fan can increasingly get faster and stronger. Fans do not do that. They have a ceiling that they can reach and that is it. If the fan is at it's peak of work load, and it has not overcome the shorting of air mass by increasing the flow speed, then it will eventually wear the motor of the fan out much fster than it would had it been used with the proper air flow design.

Knowing the forces of nature and how they act, one would logically think that if they have a 4" exit hole, then the intake hole should also be 4". This would make sense of the equal in equal out...but there are other forces of nature at work, namely friction and pressure.
I know that folks tout having an intake twice the size of the exhaust hole, but that is really not the best advice. It works and works well, but it is overkill. A professional HVAC man will install a system that provides approx. 10% more intake opening than exit opening. This extra 10% in size allows for the pressure and friction that occurs even in the best designed system.

So, no matter what...we need to have the intake hole(s) add up to at least 10% over what the size of the exhaust hole is.

Folks will fumble around with this forever and a day, and get nowhere, until they realize that they HAVE to follow the rules of nature, or they are destined for a very hard time of growing.
ANd many times growers will use their own personal logic, like feeling that blowing more air on the bulbs will help...but it is not going to help squat. And you cannot reinvent the wheel. These things are what they are, and none of us can change them.
We can either accept that we have these parameters that we must stay within, or be doomed to ignorance and failure.

 

[Illadelph]

Okay, Wow, thanks for the help algrow, freezer, hoosier. That is a lot of info. So, now... My exhaust is 4.75" 115CFM. How big should my intake be if it were to be just 1 hole? How about 2 holes?

What does it mean if its too hot in my cab with the door off, using the whole front size as an intake thats 2x2.5 feet? (I don't know if it is, I havn't really tried yet. Right now I have the door off, with a large fan blowing at it)

algrow, where did you get that thing? how much was it? So its basically a big forced intake?

 

[Quazi]

Instead of asking, just listen and learn some basic math.

The area of a square is:
length * width

That is length, multiplied by width.

The area of a circle is:
pi * r^2

That is pi (You can just use 3.14) times the radius squared. The radius of a circle is HALF of the diameter. So, if you have a 2 inch hole, the radius is 1 inch. If you have a 3 inch hole, the radius is 1.5 inches.

So let's say you want to figure out the area of a 4 inch hole. According to the order of operations (PEMDAS) we have to square our radius first. Remember, our radius is half of our diameter.

So, half of 4 is 2.
2 squared is 2 * 2 or 4.

Now we take that and multiply it by 3.14 (pi).

That tells us that a four inch hole provides 12.56 square inches.

The common recommendation for us micro growers is to have at least double the intake for our exhaust.

Using the math that I just gave you: you can determine for yourself how big/how many holes you need to get close to reaching that mark.

-Q

 

[Illadelph]

Math teacher?

so according to my calculatons, my intake is 17.767969 square inches. My intake needs to be twice that = 35.535938 sq in. Divide that by 3.14 = 11.317178. find the square root of that, and its twice that value for the diameter? my calculater doesnt do square roots, but I estimate it around 3.4. (3.4 x 3.4) = 11.56) so one hole needs to be about 23 inches diameter?

 

[Quazi]

I may or may not have used to teach math to special ed students of all levels.

If I did though -- trust me: once you can explain the quadratic equation to a 25 year old, low functioning, autistic, high school junior, you can explain math to anyone.

-Q

 

[Illadelph]

bump, I did the math.

BTW, it wasn't your math skills, (which are excellent) that made me think you were a math teacher, which you may or may not be. It was the fact that you gave me the formula, showed me an example, but made me do the math (which is probably wrong) myself. HAHA

 

[Quazi]

Math teacher?

so according to my calculatons, my intake is 17.767969 square inches. My intake needs to be twice that = 35.535938 sq in. Divide that by 3.14 = 11.317178. find the square root of that, and its twice that value for the diameter? my calculater doesnt do square roots, but I estimate it around 3.4. (3.4 x 3.4) = 11.56) so one hole needs to be about 23 inches diameter?

I'm assuming you mean your exhaust is ~17.8 sq. inches. Your math is right on and your logic is sound.

Instead of thinking of "what size big hole or two holes do I need?" try to figure out how many smaller holes you need. Figure out the area of a 1 inch circle, a 1.5 inch circle, a 2 inch circle. Maybe you only have a bit on your drill that cuts 2.5 inch holes.

So, if a 2 inch hole gives you 3.14 square inches of intake, you'd take your needed exhaust and divide it:
35.6 / 3.14 = close to 11.

So, 11x2 inch holes would be adequate to give you double intake for your exhaust.

Figure out what size holes you can cut and how much room you have to make the holes. They don't have to be circle, but you can start to get the logic down so you can come up with any number of solutions for your problem.



-Q

 

[zoolander]

Nice thread Illadelph and best of luck on some big ES flower's

 

[Illadelph]

Zoo lander, thanks for stoppin in. I've been reading your posts ever since I was a lurker without a username.

I'm all mathed out for now, so i'll figure out the rest of the problem at a later time.

 

[algrow12]

Here's you a web site mine was like 60 bucks it doesn't have a fan its just a vent that want let light out or in http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43102-REG/Doran_DOL1212_L_1212_Light_Tight_Darkroom.html