Endless sky 400w DWC

[Illadelph]

Freezerboy

so use pure tap? even with the water that comes out of my faucet? I wonder why nobody has mentioned that to me before, because i usually mention that i'm using distilled water for this very reason. Should I dump the whole res or can I just change the water partially? Will branches grow back from where i took the cuttings? Or are the plants too far along for that.

Thanks for all the info, I'm trying to make moves on this tonight.

Algrow, so what you are sayins is dump out the res, fill it with pure tap water, after a day, add only the bloom nutes and SM90, ommiting the cal mag and micro nutes?

also, Freezerboy, You are saying that add the nutes initially with the water, Don't add any more unless my PPMs start to drop, only to replace the ones that have been absorbed?

 

[FreezerBoy]

I'm simply saying, tap water is not bad water by definition. They are not synonymous. It depends on local water supply. Maybe your water is bad but the tap has nothing to do with it.

Distilled water is like eating at McDonalds. It's not poison but, because you fill up with worthless solids, you're too full to eat actual food containing, well, food. Nutrients, vitamins, carbs, protien etc. Distilled water is wet but, that's all. In an indoor garden, water is food. Distilled water is food free. If you go this way, make sure you add the trace elements that distilled lacks with products such as CalMag. I have no idea if an RO unit would cost more or less than distilled but, I'd check if I were you.

Freezerboy, You are saying that add the nutes initially with the water, Don't add any more unless my PPMs start to drop, only to replace the ones that have been absorbed?

PPM dropping would indicate a lean mix and more nutes would be the way to go. The trick is to find the # your girls like. Because I've got my numbers down, I can wait for the rez to drop 4 gallons (about two weeks) and fill it back up with a garden hose of unadjusted tap water.

Lucas suggests that once you've topped off the equivalent of half your res, flush and make new nutes. Many don't bother. I did the flush when a Mag deficiancy showed up.

 

[Illadelph]

I'm not sure how "bad" the water in my area is. I know that my place already had a water softener in the basement when I moved in from the previous occupants, but its not hooked up. Like I said, its probably about 300ppms. I thought the chlorine in the water was bad, but i guess its not after all. I have been adding calmag with iron to the distilled water, but i gather there is more than just those 3 elements in tap water, and that i am missing those. So why is reverse osmosis better then tap? or is it? I think I can get one of those filters for a couple hundred bucks.

So what do you think my course of action should be? drain the res, replace with my tap water, and add only bloom nutes and SM90 as algrow suggested? If I am understanding him correctly.

EDIT:
I mean, its not like if you put fresh flowers in a vase filled with my tap water, that they would die over night. The only reason i thought tap water was bad was because i did that PPM test that I got from the instructions that came with the hydroponic cab that i bought, its not like people in my town say that it isn't safe to drink.

so when using tap water, should i subtract 300PPMs from my reading to compensate for the water? or do those 300PPMs count as food since there is beneficial matter in it?

Anyone have any Idea about this questions from previous posts?

"Will new bud sites grow in where i took the cuttings from, or is it too late in the plants cycle for that?"

 

[FreezerBoy]

My tap is 250 (on the x500 scale) 300 ain't that bad. GH makes a Micro formula just for this purpose, though I don't bother. KEEP THE SOFTENER UNPLUGGED! It's loaded with salt and is bad juju for plants.

I've never used RO. I'm only familiar with it as a topic here and know people use it to clean "bad water". I know distilled runs $1 a gallon here. That adds up. On the other hand, RO units cost money and at least 1/2 the water you run through them goes down the drain. That adds up too. I just don't know which adds up to more.

I measure EC as a grand total of water, nutes, pH down.

I've never used SM90 either. Again, it's just a topic I've come across here. Reading suggested to me that most of the root rot/algae problems came from adding organics. Removing them seems the most effective cure to me. I wouldn't run it without seeing a problem but, that's just me. I prefer to only add those things the plant asks for directly.

"will budsites grow ..." Depends on where you cut. If there's an internode below the cut, you'll have two stems instead of one. Both growing multiple buds. If you cut off all the internodes, no.

 

[Haps]

I used a large brita household unit for two years, took out the chlorie and most of the heavies. Cost about 30-40 bucks, I just set it on the counter edge with a bucket underneath. Just a thought.
H

 

[Thundurkel]

I thought I would point out that having my bubble cloner in my veg cab was too warm for it cuz the other one I made has been on the floor in my closet with my jiffy tray and my PK mum and the cuts I put in there rooted before ones I had in my other bubble cloner a week prior! I since moved the one bubbler out of my veg cab and on the floor next to the other one and I have roots coming in finally just thought you might like to know that.. Also I've been testing 2 ways of cloning also I have a Jiffy tray with a humidity lid and just dipped the cuts in rooting powder and put them in the jiffy pellets and they rooted quicker and more uniform plus they have something for the roots to anchor to goooooo jiffy pellets!

 

[Illadelph]

Good Idea, What is an internode? the fan leaf?

Pulled two Males out (6 and 7)

this is how my plants are designated
5678
1234

M=male F= Female U= Unknown

FMMU
UFUF


So dump the res and start fresh with tap water and add bloom nutes???
How about SM90,Calmag,florolicious plus micro nutes???

 

[FreezerBoy]

Internodes are where the fans and side-branches attach to the stalk. Cut the stalk above this, the first two branches below become stalks. Almost like two plants in one pot. It's called Topping. Many use this as a primary method of growing. If you cut the tip in just the "wrong" way it can split into as many as eight. That's called FIM (F#$%, I Missed!)

Cut below the lowest internode and you've killed the plant.

Tap, nutes and pH control should do you. SM90 is for curing problems. I wouldn't add it till I saw some. CalMag shouldn't be required with tap. Not familiar with Florolicious. Micro Nutes should be contained in your reg nutes. Beyond NPK look for Magnesium, Calcium, Cobalt, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, Boron, Sulpher. You should see them listed in tiny amounts. Some in the hundredths or thousandths of a percent. Hence the names micro nutes and trace elements.

3 girls, 2 guys. Not bad.

 

[Illadelph]

Thundurkel, What were the temps in your veg cab? mine are like 82F. My main res temps are like 74F, so I'm assuming the water in the bubble cloner would be atleast that. You want a little bit warmer water for the bubbler cloner right? what is the range again? Also, it usually takes around 10 days for the clones to root? (I know if varies, but gimme a ball park) What do you do with clones that have been rooted in a bubble cloner? put them into a peat/starter/jiffy plug? or right into hydroton?

FreezerBoy, I'm not sure I understand you completely. I am familliar with topping and fimming, though I never knew what it stood for (FIM). But what I did on most plants was take a cutting from the stock, cutting it as close to the stalk as possible, than I trimmed them down. Right under where I took these types of cuttings, there is a fan leaf, that I tried to leave on. So in other words, the fan leave is at a 90 degree angle to the stalk, the cutting is coming out of almost the same place as the fan leaf, but at a 45degree angle instead, if you can imagine that.

On plant 5, the cuttings (branches, what-have-you) were the same, but the cuttings were so long (up to a foot), reaching out for light, that they had multiple fanleaves growing off of its sides. On this plant, i just cut the end of the Cutting/branch off, right above the second set of fan leaves closest to the top, leaving the smaller, top set of fan leaves on the cutting that I am trying to root.

I hope that my explanation isn't to difficult to understand, i explained it the best I could. I have a feeling you'll know what I'm talking about because you've probably seen a lot of plants over the years.

So do you suggest not adding this Florolicious plus vitamin shit, unless my Bloom nutes don't seem to contain those trace elements you mentioned?

 

[Thundurkel]

Well my veg cab is at 80-82 and now that it's in a cooler spot they seem to be doing a lot better, and I plant my cuts right into soil, it's kind of a bitch tho if a root breaks your fucked so I'm liking the jiffy tray better personally but I still have 2 bubble cloners going cuz I'm not sure what way I like best just yet or what one is better but I will let you know

 

[Illadelph]

Word, I guess we'll find which works better for me too. So i would put the rooted clones from the bubbler right into the starter plug? (i do hydro) So you think that they might root faster if they were in an atmosphere that was ten degrees cooler?

 

[Illadelph]

Is there a difference in veg and bloom nutes in the sense that the PPMs level that my plants were comfortable with for veg nutes is different than what they will be comfortable with for bloom nutes?

Lights come on in half an hour, Going to dump res and fill with tap, then add nutes tomorrow.

Can't wait to see if anymore have shown sex, so far:

3 Female
2 Males
3 Unknown

 

[Illadelph]

FreezerBoy:

I dont think my floranova Bloom has those trace elements. The bottle says:
Total Nitrogen 4.0%
Ammoniacal nitrogen .25%
Nitrate itrogen 3.75%
Available phosphate 8.0%
Soluble Potash 7.0%
Calcium 4.0%
Magnesium 2.0%
Sulfer 2.0%
Chelatd Iron .1%

Derived From: Ammonium Molybdate, Ammonium Phosphate, Calcium Nitrate, Cobalt sulfate, copper sulfate, manganese sulfate, magnesium sulfate, potassium borate, potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, zinc zulfate, iron.



The Floralicious Plus has pretty much the same stuff, in smaller amounts. The bottle says:

Total Nitrogen 2%
Available phosphate .8%
Soluble potash .02% hydrolysate

Derived From: Vegetable protein, sea kelp, potassium sulfate.
also contains non-plantfood ingredient, 2% Humic acids derived from micronized leonardite.

Am I mistaken? Or is there something I need to get for those trace elements?

For the 3 unknowns, Looks like it might be 2 females and a male, but they aren't developed enough to tell, i just thought i saw some pistils on the two, and the begining of pollin sacks on the one. But if I'm right it will give me 5 females, 3 males, not bad.

My Tap is 275PPMs, PH 8.5+

 

[FreezerBoy]

I use 2 parts of the 3 part Flora series. Never tried FloraNova but, it's my understanding it's an all in one solution. Everything you need minus some stuff they expect tap water to provide.

If you're doing any serious vegging, consider the other bottle (don't know the name) The Bloom is lower in N. Great for flowers but, vegging plants want more N than
anything else. If you're going straight to 12/12, never mind.

 

[algrow12]

you are doubleing up on your nutes 8ml has everything in it you dont need the cal mag just read this http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119&highlight=8ml as far as the sm90 it will help

 

[Illadelph]

Thanks algrow, Thats what I've done as you advised.

 

[Illadelph]

My leaves are still burning. I dumped the res and filled with plain phed tap. A day later added 1.5 tsp / gal of Floranova Bloom. Corrected the PH. Its been 3 days since I first dumped the res I think.

My PPMs are at 1080. Last night they were at 1180 (I think) so i think the plants are using the nutes.

Any suggestions?

Pulled one more male and confirmed 1 more supsected female. I'm actually pretty sure the other suspected female is a female too, but it will take one more day to be sure.

5 Females out of 8 beans, not bad.

5xxx
1234

So only one of the taller plants was a female, supporting the theory that the taller plants are more often than not males.

You think I should use the clone from the Big Female for the mother? Guess I'll have to see how the bud turns out. Grows big and fast though.

Thanks for tuning in.

edit:

Also, last night I added Bushmaster (kelp) to the res to stop the stretch, because If the big one gets any bigger it will outgrow the cab.

A

 

[algrow12]

the ph sould have been right on the money with the f/n you can throw away your ph up or down when using f/n I never have any problems with ph using it and I never even cheek it I just look at what my ppms are if its over 1050 I add just water if under I add back nutes and water. I don't think I would have used the bushmaster I would just have lsted the plant in the long run it would have made more bud for you.I told you it would out grow your space. for me all I give mine are 7 days veg before I change to 12/12 if I am using seed I have never cloned I don't have the room for it so I just buy fem seeds I have had real good luck with them.

 

[Illadelph]

Really? you don't have to adjust your PH with Floranova? When I was using distilled water, it would creep out of the range and I'd have to bring it back. The water was over 8.5 to begin with, which is as basic as my test kid goes, so I had to atleast use PH down for that. I tried to LST before resorting to the bushmaster, but if I bend that big plant, its net pot moves in its hole with it. The net pots aren't really big enough for a 2.5 foot plant, because it tilts the netpot out of its hole with its own weights alone, without even bending the plant over. I didnt want to LST any of the other plants because they are being shaded out by the big one already as it is. Why only 7 days of veg? if you had more space would you give them more time?

So what about the continuing burn? is that just after affects? or is there somethign that needs correcting still?

For my mothers I was thinking of making a little 2 gal res. for each mother and doing them hydroponically. What do you all think of that?

Thanks for the help.

 

[algrow12]

just use your tap water and stop using the distilled water I don't think you will have a problem with it myself or use r/o water. the f/n has ph stablelisers in it thats why I like it so well I will try to take a pic and show you why I only give them 7 days veg any more time and run out of room. did you put the other air pump in? and can you tell me how to put the photo on here.