Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[siftedunity]

lastly, I don't mean to clutter the thread but could freezing seeds destroy these nematodes in seeds? would this at least be one way to prevent these infecting new seedlings?

 

[RetroGrow]

lastly, I don't mean to clutter the thread but could freezing seeds destroy these nematodes in seeds? would this at least be one way to prevent these infecting new seedlings?

No. Nematodes can survive extremely cold temperatures. That is how they survive the winter.

 

[RetroGrow]

I dont believe in "duds". this shit aint magic... there is a cause.
Eelworms (root knot nematodes) come in a couple types... Heterodera rostochiensis and Heterodera pallida are the majority. They require moist soil... they create eggs in cysts on the roots that can survive in the soil for up to 20 years. These are the swollen bodies, or cysts of the female eelworms and each contains up to 600 eggs.

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Males remain worm-like and swim off into the soil when mature. Females grow and swell within the root to erupt through the root wall, whilst the head remains embedded in the root. After mating the body wall of the female starts to harden, forming the cyst... You shouldn't really be looking in stems at all... instead, you should be looking for pinhead sized white, yellow or brown cysts on the roots.

We are not dealing with root knot nematodes. We are dealing with Alfalfa stem nematodes, or just stem nematodes, or their scientific name: Ditylenchus dipsaci. They enter the plants through stomata, NOT roots. Completely different animal, and there are such things as duds. You may not have encountered them, but they are very real.

 

[siftedunity]

from what im reading there are nematicides, both chemical and biological available, seems like bayer cropscience are working on something this year called bio act

http://www.cropscience.bayer.com/en...est-in-innovative-nematode-control-tools.aspx

BioAct™ is a high-quality solution for nematode control available as WP (wettable powder) and WG (water-dispersible granules) formulations. This Paecilomyces lilacinus-based biological nematicide controls a broad range of plant-parasitic nematodes in a large number of agricultural crops. The beneficial fungus in BioAct™ only targets plant-parasitic nematodes, especially the juvenile stages and eggs, without harming any other soil-dwelling organisms. BioAct™ is currently registered in more than ten countries worldwide.

so seems like these controls are out there or being worked on, and this isn't a recent pest by any means.

 

[RetroGrow]

from what im reading there are nematicides, both chemical and biological available, seems like bayer cropscience are working on something this year called bio act

http://www.cropscience.bayer.com/en...est-in-innovative-nematode-control-tools.aspx

BioAct™ is a high-quality solution for nematode control available as WP (wettable powder) and WG (water-dispersible granules) formulations. This Paecilomyces lilacinus-based biological nematicide controls a broad range of plant-parasitic nematodes in a large number of agricultural crops. The beneficial fungus in BioAct™ only targets plant-parasitic nematodes, especially the juvenile stages and eggs, without harming any other soil-dwelling organisms. BioAct™ is currently registered in more than ten countries worldwide.

so seems like these controls are out there or being worked on, and this isn't a recent pest by any means.

The "new" nematicides were developed in response to the banning of existing nematicides for environmental reasons. The "new" ones are actually less effective than the old methods, which themselves weren't a "home run" against nematodes, but rather more to keep their numbers down. Furthermore, these products are mainly targeting the other 5 species of nematodes, and not necessarily as effective against Ditylenchus Dipsaci, the stem nematodes that some are dealing with. Stem nematodes enter the plant through the stomata, not the roots, which other nematodes attack, so these products will not work as well on them.
In addition, not only can they survive freezing, but they can go into a state of dormancy, wherein they dry out completely, and are able to survive for years with no nutrition whatsoever, and come back as good as new once re-hydrated by rainfall. A formidable foe that is extremely difficult to eradicate.

 

[redlaser]

lastly, I don't mean to clutter the thread but could freezing seeds destroy these nematodes in seeds? would this at least be one way to prevent these infecting new seedlings?

You could try heat instead of freezing. Maintaining 111 degree water for thirty minutes is listed as effective in killing nematodes on the UC Davis pest management guidelines. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r280200111.html I've tried this on cuttings successfully.

 

[siftedunity]

The "new" nematicides were developed in response to the banning of existing nematicides for environmental reasons. The "new" ones are actually less effective than the old methods, which themselves weren't a "home run" against nematodes, but rather more to keep their numbers down. Furthermore, these products are mainly targeting the other 5 species of nematodes, and not necessarily as effective against Ditylenchus Dipsaci, the stem nematodes that some are dealing with. Stem nematodes enter the plant through the stomata, not the roots, which other nematodes attack, so these products will not work as well on them.
In addition, not only can they survive freezing, but they can go into a state of dormancy, wherein they dry out completely, and are able to survive for years with no nutrition whatsoever, and come back as good as new once re-hydrated by rainfall. A formidable foe that is extremely difficult to eradicate.

right I see. so these could even be coming from compact/dried coco blocks etc or seeds. im surprised these things have not been prominent in canna for years. they seem so easily spread.
chitin seems like a good idea but surely would take a while to kick in. I would have though a biological treatment would be better than a chemical one. i kinda see why they ban some of the others if you read the health warnings though.
coming back to broad mites, does anyone think there is a correlation between the two? or are they just both causing the same problem?

 

[RetroGrow]

They both inject toxins/growth regulators into the plants. The toxins cause the dudding, however, no one seems to know exactly what these toxins are. The "toxins" are the common denominator, though.

 

[whadeezlrg]

looks like someone came in and cleared out the trash..

 

[D1904]

It serves as another reminder that you should always have aspirin in your rez, to strengthen plant's immune response. Willow water works too, as it has salicylic acid. Aloe also has it. Add humic & fulvic acids as immune system boosters, and you seriously reduce your chances of getting these pathogens and the toxins they release.
Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure. SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens. It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins. It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate.
SAR, or systemic required resistance, could explain why attack on one part of a plant induces resistance in other parts, which has been reported many times in the "SourDubb" "Dudding". One branch on the plant can be affected, while the rest of the plant is O.K.

Good. Stuff, but I would highly recommend using 200x aloe vera powder instead of aspirin for its secondary property " saponins "

 

[RetroGrow]

Good. Stuff, but I would highly recommend using 200x aloe vera powder instead of aspirin for its secondary property " saponins "

I mentioned aloe. There is no reason they can't be used together. Since I am more familiar with aspirin, and have seen dramatic results from using it, that is what I recommend. I am aware of aloe's properties, but have not used it, and don't know the amounts necessary, but am looking into it. There are a number of things that boost plant's immune system, which, by the way, is salicylic acid.

 

[whatthe215]

just ordered 10lbs of salicylic acid for $115... enough for 15,200 gallons at 300mg/gal.

gonna dilute it in ethanol so i can add to rezs 1ml/gal. i didn't know bulk SA was so cheap/available, i didn't like the idea of powderizing and dissolving hundreds of asprin pills per day... i think the pills are primarily filler not SA.

gonna look into the aloe thanks guys.

 

[LyryC]

The "new" nematicides were developed in response to the banning of existing nematicides for environmental reasons. The "new" ones are actually less effective than the old methods, which themselves weren't a "home run" against nematodes, but rather more to keep their numbers down. Furthermore, these products are mainly targeting the other 5 species of nematodes, and not necessarily as effective against Ditylenchus Dipsaci, the stem nematodes that some are dealing with. Stem nematodes enter the plant through the stomata, not the roots, which other nematodes attack, so these products will not work as well on them.
In addition, not only can they survive freezing, but they can go into a state of dormancy, wherein they dry out completely, and are able to survive for years with no nutrition whatsoever, and come back as good as new once re-hydrated by rainfall. A formidable foe that is extremely difficult to eradicate.

WHAT HTE FUCK! Those things are like water bears.

Wow... Respect Retro for the detailed information, you really taking a big stride for the community with this knowledge and perseverance for a solution.

I hope they can find a plant that has a natural defense to these bastards, or a predator.

I bet theres a beneficial fungi that would fuck those bitches up!

 

[D1904]

Agsil 16h
200x aloe vera powder
Is far better than aspirin.

#1 Salycilic Acid: Makes this dry powder excellent for cloning! Willow root isn't even as good. Aloe vera contains Salicylic acid which is an aspirin-like compound with anti -inflammatory, analgesic, and anti-bacterial properties.

#2 Saponins: Another constituent of Aloe vera includes saponins. These are soapy substances from the gel that is capable of cleansing and having antiseptic properties. The saponins perform strongly as anti-microbial against bacteria, viruses, fungi, and yeasts.

Mix 1/4 tsp per gallon let it sit for a few minutes.
Drench and spray.

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.labdepotinc.com/Product_...al_sfa41czwo71BKn-Gj0N-drf39ZDseudXieRprw_wcB

SULFOSALICYLIC ACID 3%

 

[whatthe215]

Storm, is sulfosalicylic acid proven to be superior? Could you link or source or two? All I can find is how it's used for urine analysis and vitamin B6 extraction...

 

[Storm Shadow]

I don't know if its better or worst...

http://www.ijabpt.com/pdf/97060-Jadhav S.pdf

ABSTRACT: A study was carried out on growth, photosynthetic pigments, and yield attributing and seed
characteristics of Arachis hypogaea L. (Cv. SB-11). The treatments comprised of different concentrations (5, 50,
100 and 200 ppm) of Sulfosalicylic acid (SSA). The results showed that 50 ppm concentration of foliar applied SSA
effectively promoted the growth parameters, photosynthetic pigments (chl a, chl b, total chl, carotenoids and
chlorophyll stability index), yield parameters and seed protein and seed oil contents of groundnut. Similarly
significant decrease in severity of tikka disease was reported with 50 ppm SSA. SSA 100 ppm profound better
influence on the number of branches, height of plant and the shelling percentage. It could be concluded that SSA
proved to be beneficial in promoting plant growth and yield and in inducing systemic resistance against tikka
disease in groundnut.

 

[whatthe215]

cool thanks for the source, I've always appreciated that about your posts.

lil update, still no duds! took a room down and everything stinks and is frosty as can be.

some bubba jones and 2nd is cookies veggin away. glad to put this all behind me.

 

[oceangrownkush]

HALE YEEAH those loook beast bud big UPS whatthe215

 

[oceangrownkush]

Agsil 16h
200x aloe vera powder
Is far better than aspirin.

#1 Salycilic Acid: Makes this dry powder excellent for cloning! Willow root isn't even as good. Aloe vera contains Salicylic acid which is an aspirin-like compound with anti -inflammatory, analgesic, and anti-bacterial properties.

#2 Saponins: Another constituent of Aloe vera includes saponins. These are soapy substances from the gel that is capable of cleansing and having antiseptic properties. The saponins perform strongly as anti-microbial against bacteria, viruses, fungi, and yeasts.

Mix 1/4 tsp per gallon let it sit for a few minutes.
Drench and spray.

Agsil 16h is a silica product from what I'm reading just now? Interested in what the 200x aloe powder is actually called...