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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

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RetroGrow

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CO2 is easily provided by tanks, but tanked CO2 is very expensive compared to that provided by CO2 generators which burn propane or natural gas. (When Hardcore uses propane CO2 generators he uses
100-pound propane tanks instead of smaller tanks to avoid having to do a lot of refill work.)
The use of tanked CO2 can facilitate the killing of spider mites and other pests. In true sealed grow rooms that have no leaks, growers can kill all pests by upping CO2 levels to 10,000 parts per million (ppm) for one hour. Other CO2 augmentation methods
are incapable of generating 10,000 ppm for an hour ? only the tank supply method is capable of providing that concentration of CO2. Especially when using 10,000 ppm bug-killing tactics, growers must use safety methods that minimize the health problems
that CO2 can cause for humans.

http://can't link/articles/3368.html

Hydrocyanic Acid Gas. Hydrocyanic acid gas is extremely poisonous to all forms of life. It kills roaches, bedbugs, mosquitoes, fleas, flies, rats, mice, and other vermin with great certainty and very quickly. HCN also kills insect eggs, which sulphur dioxid and other gases fail to do. Hydrocyanic acid gas is not a germicide. It is not very poisonous to the higher forms of plant life. Hydrocyanic acid gas is much used in greenhouses for the destruction of insect pests and for scale and other parasites of fruit trees. The gas has a distinct place in the fumigation of granaries, stables, ships, barns, outhouses, railroad cars, and other uninhabited structures infested with vermin. It is also extensively used in flouring mills against weevils, in railroad cars against bedbugs, and in tobacco warehouses against insects in general. It should be used in the household only with the greatest precaution, as the least careless ness with it would probably mean the loss of human life. It has the marked advantage that it does not harm metals, fabrics, or pigments, and may be used in the most expensive drawing rooms.

Hydrocyanic acid gas is lighter than air and has an agreeable aromatic odor quite familiar in the flavoring essence of bittei almonds. The best method of generating it for the purpose of fumigation is by the action of dilute sulphuric acid upon potassium cyanid, in the fol lowing proportions: Sodium cyanid 1 ounce Potassium cyanid 1.0 ounce Sulphuric acid ounces Sulphuric acid 1.0 ounce Water 2 ounces Water 2.5 ounces The first step is to dilute the acid, which is done by adding the acid to water in a vitrified clay jar or receptacle capable of withstand ing the heat. The whole amount of cyanid should be put into the acid at once. As the evolution of the gas is rapid, the operator should be ready to leave the spot without delay. As pointed out by Fulton, it is convenient to tie the cyanid up in a bag made of cheese cloth or tissue paper, which is lowered into the acid by a cord passing outside of the room. The amount of gas used for fumigation, expressed in terms of cyanid, is from ounce to 10 ounces per 100 cubic feet of space. From 30 minutes to 2 hours will kill lice, bedbugs and roaches, but in practice an exposure of 2 to 6 hours is advisable (page 514). Hydro cyanic acid gas is quite as effective as sulphur dioxid, is not destructive, is reasonably cheap, and is certain in its action, but its poisonous nature is such a serious drawback that it has a limited place as an insecticide in public health work. It is finding favor in maritime quar antine practice, where it is largely replacing SO,. See pages 515 and 1402.

http://www.booksupstairs.com/Preventive-Medicine-and-Hygiene/Insecticides.html

There is a CO2 thread here (actually several):

One best post was #3:

"CO2 is not flammable at all. It is actually used in metal shops and closed welding chambers to create a CO2 rich atmosphere that will inhibit anything that wants to burn.

I do CO2 bombs almost every week! They are very effective. It is wise to do it during the dark period, when the plants' stomates are closed, as anything over 2,000 ppm CO2 is toxic to the plants, and anything over 4,000 ppm CO2 is toxic to humans. It is almost impossible to reach these levels of CO2 in a large room with a CO2 burner, you must use a 50 lb. tank. Turn off all your ventilation and circulation, fans, AC, etc. I would just stand the tank in the middle of the room, crack open the valve 1/4 turn, and come back in 1+ hour(s), air the room out before the lights come back on.
I think you will find that the CO2 method is more effective, if done properly, where pests can build a tolerance to the Pyrethrum. Not to mention, the CO2 method is much more healthy, as it leaves zero residue on the final product, and can be done right up until the last day of flower! "

Now, the thing is, Ditylenchus dipsaci have no respiratory system, so not sure if this would effect them. I believe they must need oxygen though, so if it was all displaced, they should die at some point.
 

papaduc

Active member
Veteran
Anyone else starting to get freaked out by all these bugs? I sometimes feel like my skin is crawling. It's just one plague after another. Where does it end? First it was root aphids causing a lot of devastation. As soon as we figured out how to kill them, it was broad and cyclamen mites. We figured out how to deal with them,although they are still causing massive problems for many people. Now we got nematodes, which seem to be kicking our ass so far. And now more types of worms, enchytraeids, which don't seem destructive, but psyllids certainly are, and there is no magic bullet to kill them. There are things that knock them back or control them if you catch them early, but if you don't catch them early, they can wipe you out. We never had to deal with any of this stuff in the "old days". Now it's plagues of biblical proportions, one after another

When you put it into perspective, it's actually a small problem, which has been around for years.

None of these are new species and if they're spreading quicker it's because of people, not the pests themselves.

At the moment, what we seem to have is a pest which doesn't give much thought to pro-creation, because from what I have read in here, the healthy plants which have been sampled don't even have them.

So this pest is one which, actually, doesn't like to move house much. So much so, that during an entire cycle, it doesn't even spread to the next healthy plant.
 

Grizz

Active member
Veteran
Yes. Dispensaries passing cuts. PO a prime example. But who's to say the DEA does not own or have their tentacles into dispensaries? If you've ever dealt with the DEA, you know they are beneath contempt. Just sayin.....

I agree, what the government will do is way beyond what we think they will do, in reality though I doubt there smart enough to do this and when you think about it they don't want to wipe us out because they would be out of a job.
 

Elements001

Enhance
Veteran
Hydrocyanic Acid Gas. Hydrocyanic acid gas is extremely poisonous to all forms of life. It kills roaches, bedbugs, mosquitoes, fleas, flies, rats, mice, and other vermin with great certainty and very quickly. HCN also kills insect eggs, which sulphur dioxid and other gases fail to do. Hydrocyanic acid gas is not a germicide. It is not very poisonous to the higher forms of plant life. Hydrocyanic acid gas is much used in greenhouses for the destruction of insect pests and for scale and other parasites of fruit trees. The gas has a distinct place in the fumigation of granaries, stables, ships, barns, outhouses, railroad cars, and other uninhabited structures infested with vermin. It is also extensively used in flouring mills against weevils, in railroad cars against bedbugs, and in tobacco warehouses against insects in general. It should be used in the household only with the greatest precaution, as the least careless ness with it would probably mean the loss of human life. It has the marked advantage that it does not harm metals, fabrics, or pigments, and may be used in the most expensive drawing rooms.

Hydrocyanic acid gas is lighter than air and has an agreeable aromatic odor quite familiar in the flavoring essence of bittei almonds. The best method of generating it for the purpose of fumigation is by the action of dilute sulphuric acid upon potassium cyanid, in the fol lowing proportions: Sodium cyanid 1 ounce Potassium cyanid 1.0 ounce Sulphuric acid ounces Sulphuric acid 1.0 ounce Water 2 ounces Water 2.5 ounces The first step is to dilute the acid, which is done by adding the acid to water in a vitrified clay jar or receptacle capable of withstand ing the heat. The whole amount of cyanid should be put into the acid at once. As the evolution of the gas is rapid, the operator should be ready to leave the spot without delay. As pointed out by Fulton, it is convenient to tie the cyanid up in a bag made of cheese cloth or tissue paper, which is lowered into the acid by a cord passing outside of the room. The amount of gas used for fumigation, expressed in terms of cyanid, is from ounce to 10 ounces per 100 cubic feet of space. From 30 minutes to 2 hours will kill lice, bedbugs and roaches, but in practice an exposure of 2 to 6 hours is advisable (page 514). Hydro cyanic acid gas is quite as effective as sulphur dioxid, is not destructive, is reasonably cheap, and is certain in its action, but its poisonous nature is such a serious drawback that it has a limited place as an insecticide in public health work. It is finding favor in maritime quar antine practice, where it is largely replacing SO,. See pages 515 and 1402.

http://www.booksupstairs.com/Preventive-Medicine-and-Hygiene/Insecticides.html
.

Sounds like it would almost definitely work, just very very risky.

Isn't that the same stuff they use in gas chambers for lethal executions? Pretty horrible looking death if it does get you. Good info though. :tiphat:
 

HUGE

Active member
Veteran
After dissecting the plant I didn't find anything out of the ordinary. No bugs, no nematodes that I could see. No soft or mushy parts to be found. Cross section of the stem looks super healthy. Root mass was full and healthy. Only issue was the brittleness of the stems and the "dudding" of the buds.
 

Grizz

Active member
Veteran
After dissecting the plant I didn't find anything out of the ordinary. No bugs, no nematodes that I could see. No soft or mushy parts to be found. Cross section of the stem looks super healthy. Root mass was full and healthy. Only issue was the brittleness of the stems and the "dudding" of the buds.
what power of scope did you use ?
 

xxxstr8edgexxx

Active member
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your going to prolly want a slide type analog scope for a really clear pic. but i think ss was using a digital one from frys. 60x wont likely cut it though. from the videos it looks like 200 x was a good starting point. but i havent seen them personally so i dont know for sure. they look hard to see though.
 

whatthe215

Active member
Veteran
I look around for movement under 100x and then zoom in to 200x for confirmation.

Holdin's worms look like the enchytraeids mentioned, some pics show the half yellow half white.
 

Grizz

Active member
Veteran
could we start a list of whats being used to try and kill these bastards, maybe by whom and what strength and how. sure would make it easer to keep track of it. I know storm shadow and whatthe and straightedge and retro are one the front lines hitting them hard. much respect for all your hard work.
 

whatthe215

Active member
Veteran
chitosan oligosaccharide seems to be the best bet so far, SS says it's giving the best results.

i was talking to some of the guys at a hydroshop the other day about all of this, and they mentioned that AN Bud Factor X is mostly made up of chitosan and also salicylic acid. Scorpion Juice USED to be the chitosan product. Also, insect frass is a source of (some form of) chitosan.

I just got pure agricultural grade chitosan oligosaccharide but thought it was worth mentioning.

one of the guys hanging out there made his own salicylic acid mixture. he got pure salicylic acid, which was apparently hard to get, dissolved it in 100% ethanol (because it's barely water soluble) and adds 1ml/gal to achieve 300mg salicylic acid/gal. i'ma try to trade some chitosan oligo for his mixture.
 

whatthe215

Active member
Veteran
also, our favorite clone store PO had some scientist come in and confirm root knot nematodes a few YEARS ago. apparently they didn't check stems just roots.
 

HUGE

Active member
Veteran
Looked under the 200x and still clean. Josey is the sour dubb usually hollow stem or solid?
 

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
I look around for movement under 100x and then zoom in to 200x for confirmation.

Holdin's worms look like the enchytraeids mentioned, some pics show the half yellow half white.

Indeed... after googling pics of enchytraeids, I certainly saw some similar pics. Although I did see smaller, all white specimens, they very will could've been juveniles. It appears, from what I've read, that enchytraeids are primarily decomposers, but also feast on fungi and bacteria... and also have been known to eat nematodes like Retro mentioned.

I'm going to keep looking to see if I can confirmed stem nematodes, but I am periodically experiencing some of the same 'dud' symptoms as others. In the mean time, giving lots of 'bennies', Actinovate, etc.

One interesting thing to note, for the last year or so I've had a vast population of H. Miles in my ROLS... I rarely see them anymore. Something certainly changed, for one reason or another.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
chitosan oligosaccharide seems to be the best bet so far, SS says it's giving the best results.

i was talking to some of the guys at a hydroshop the other day about all of this, and they mentioned that AN Bud Factor X is mostly made up of chitosan and also salicylic acid. Scorpion Juice USED to be the chitosan product. Also, insect frass is a source of (some form of) chitosan.

I just got pure agricultural grade chitosan oligosaccharide but thought it was worth mentioning.

one of the guys hanging out there made his own salicylic acid mixture. he got pure salicylic acid, which was apparently hard to get, dissolved it in 100% ethanol (because it's barely water soluble) and adds 1ml/gal to achieve 300mg salicylic acid/gal. i'ma try to trade some chitosan oligo for his mixture.

You can buy pure salicylic acid in CVS. It is not hard to get. They keep it at the pharmacy counter where I'm at. You have to ask for it. I saw it on the shelves behind the counter.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Sounds like it would almost definitely work, just very very risky.

Isn't that the same stuff they use in gas chambers for lethal executions? Pretty horrible looking death if it does get you. Good info though. :tiphat:

Yup. Cyanide gas. 100% lethal to everything except plants. It is used in green houses to control pests. Never used it, and that's about all I know about it. Don't know how cannabis handles it, but someone needs to find out more about it and do a test. Just don't breathe in the vapors, as they will kill you...:biggrin:
A respirator would be in order. Greenhouses that use it would probably be a good source of information.
 

Grizz

Active member
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hell I don't remember, just when we think we got it figured out you cant find anything, let me ask, was the plant still green and alive when you scoped it ?
 

Mikenite69

Well-known member
Veteran
I was reading that pylon why it is good for broads, cyclamen, russets and also nematodes.

Here is a listing from there label copy and pasted.


Pylon® miticide-insecticide, with the active ingredient chlorfenapyr, is a cost-effective, broad-spectrum product that provides exceptional control of key greenhouse pests. Pylon is the only registered product in the pyrroles class of chemistry with control of a range of insects and mites, caterpillars and Western flower and chilli thrips on ornamental plants. Pylon controls the target insect or mite by interfering with energy production of the pests. Its translaminar movement and mode of action result in mortality of most pests in 72 hours.

General Information

Pests Controlled
• Caterpillars
• Fungus gnats
• Broad mite
• Citrus budmite
• Cyclamen mite
• Rust mite
• Spider mites
• Foliar nematodes
• Western flower thrips
• Chilli thrips
 
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