Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[cannascholar]

I highly recommend this $300 textbook to any serious broad mite killer. I read in the sample pages that there is 21 pathogens that have been identified from this mite family. Even worse, there have been cases of deliberate spreading! Definitely gonna pick this up when I get some dough these bugs are gonna change the way we grow.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GS...q=intentionally spreading pests mites&f=false

 

[Crooked8]

If you suspect your gg is dudding i suggest giving up on it. I culled mine a while ago, got new ones and they are vastly different. I didnt get mine at the cup but the source was the same. Sl had an unknown issue. It was never his intention for this to happen. I received replacement cuts and i can already tell they are behaving normally. Storm Shadow, dude, you seem like you know your stuff, but man what will it take to get you to drop the shit attitude? Its so UNhelpful. Its so much more of an elite trait as a human being to deliver your "helpful" info without the "i grow 1000 plants in so cal so im a better grower than you bullshit" nobody fucking cares.

 

[Storm Shadow]

lack of your own self confidence will get you no playing time like your boy J.DUDley above....

Best advice Clifford Paul ever gave me

 

[Crooked8]

Confidence and arrogance are different things

 

[IGROWMYOWN]

If you suspect your gg is dudding i suggest giving up on it. I culled mine a while ago, got new ones and they are vastly different. I didnt get mine at the cup but the source was the same. Sl had an unknown issue. It was never his intention for this to happen. I received replacement cuts and i can already tell they are behaving normally. Storm Shadow, dude, you seem like you know your stuff, but man what will it take to get you to drop the shit attitude? Its so UNhelpful. Its so much more of an elite trait as a human being to deliver your "helpful" info without the "i grow 1000 plants in so cal so im a better grower than you bullshit" nobody fucking cares.

Sure would be nice if he handled it like a MAN and he actually came and said something along those lines HIMSELF then maybe he'd possibly save a little face .... Hiding out after making some lame statement in his wayward thread blaming the buyers was lame and shows his character .SL couldn't have handled this situation any worse than he has so far I don't know if you noticed its seems to be getting worse daily.

 

[mojave green]

from http://hawaiiplantdisease.net/

from http://hawaiiplantdisease.net/

The elongated internodes may be related to gibberellins (GA), plant hormones first discovered in a fungal disease of rice ("foolish seedling disease" -- gibberellic acid). See this photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gib_sprout.jpg. You can search for this disease online, lots of info.

First, see if growers are using GA. If they are, then that may be the problem.


If the elongation of internodes is the main symptom, you can look for a species of the fungus Gibberella infecting the plants. This pathogen produces GA.

Scot Nelson

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Big up sam skunk man

Hemp Pests & Diseases is on the coffee table at the Farm!

We appreciate you!

Thank you for providing this industry for us, your ganja children!

 

[Tonygreen]

So plants that veg funny or are sick are called duds now?

 

[Crooked8]

No, duds are strains that previously had vigor and normality and lost it. They provide sadness and heartache.....also potential financial losses.

 

[Tonygreen]

You can lose vigor from a million different things. Moist of the pictures people have put up to show "duds" look to me to all have different issues going on.

 

[Tonygreen]

View Image

Those fan leaves with the overlapping blades - thats the "webbed" look that screams "I'M A DUDD!!!!"

btw thats high life 45's pic

Does anyone else think this looks like a healthy plant? lol

 

[Infinitesimal]

tony the problem is when it is flowered it doesn't produce the quality it is supposed to or normally has done.

 

[Tonygreen]

Another observation is some of those pics are obviously revegged clones of varying degrees from flower which behave differently and surely show different growth. Just a thought, hope whoever has this issue the best. I have a clone that was just a tiny nub on a stick and it grew out funny as fuck until it sorted itself with maturity.

Lets hear about the environment these duds come from as well. PH, feeding schedule, does your growing medium have good drainage, just posting a pic and blaming it on the plant isnt going to solve anything. One clone grown in tens of thousands of different environments is bound to grow differently for people tbh.

 

[whatthe215]

count me in. i had the issue once before with another strain, 1/3-1/2 would dud out at wk4 bloom. light green leaves on the nugs, lack of frost or smell, brittle stems.

cloning away from it helps. blue light helps, i keep my moms under 1kw horti 10k super blues now. putting moms outside helps.

i'm doing the same with the GG and it's working. actinovate organic fungicide (Streptomyces lydicus WYEC 108) helped a lot and got the GGs growing healthy again.

i'll add some before and after pics soon. the plan is to take the absolute best clones for 3-4 generations and start adding some boticanical oils starting with a mint extract.

 

[Infinitesimal]

Sci Fi Thriller

Sci Fi Thriller

my mind is always active and at times quite creative in its thinking, so entertain me in my ideas as they are just that... silly ponderings that are interesting and fun to think about.

and I should note that I am a big fan of the sour dub and GG cuttings, its some awesome herb.

I want to share a thought I had involving the issue of "duds" that in no way has any scientific validity, just my mind thinking up possibilities and this seemed to be an entertaining somewhat plausible orwellian type scenario...



Disclaimer: NONE if this is true, as far as I know no gene or protein of this sort exists


Duds, an orwellian nightmare?

lets keep in mind that cannabis is an annual species and therefore it stands to reason that it has had (throughout its evolution) no distinct advantage for its survival by staying alive longer than necessary to procreate. in other words it naturally only lives 5-8 months then dies through normal senescence compared to being kept in veg in perpetuity by un naturally manipulating the photoperiod...
What IF... there is something in the genes that we have been unwittingly selecting for (over the last 40+ years of modern breeding) that allows us keep clones healthy for decades of sequential cloning... and What If the HIGH quality we see from these "dud" strains are latent genetic traits and a direct trade off for the traits that allow us to keep clones for so long, resulting in the clones duding after so long of time?

with that in mind lets imagine that there could be a gene in cannabis that controls the production of a protein (lets call it Pd1) and lets also imagine that Pd1 serves two functions, the first function of Pd1 is to keep the health of the individual cells in the plant healthy and vibrant (so plants with higher Pd1 are healthier and greener longer while the plants lower in Pd1 lose health and vigor faster and are more susceptible to pests), the second function is a trade off... in order to keep the plant cells healthy and vibrant more energy and resources are required to sustain such health and therefor the plant allocates less energy and resources to the production of secondary metabolites/essential oils (so a plant lower in Pd1 has the potential for much higher quality but doesn't maintain proper cell health after so much time and so many successive clonings)

if such a gene exists and controls the production of such a protein then wild cannabis and landrace cultivars were likely prevalent with individuals that carried the gene expression for low "Pd1" levels and this "dud" trait (though the "duds" never expressed because people didn't grow from clones).... but since the advent of modern cannabis growing and breeding obviously only plants that would survive many clone generations get selected and breed with "typically"... thereby ALSO making it possible that through random chance and heavy inbreeding that these deleterious recessive traits will pop up.

the problem could arise (if any of this were true) that because of the demand for these super frosty novelty strains, this trait could quickly spread as everyone with the cut rushes to make seeds and everyone rushes to buy them then those who buy them selects for the low Pd1 ultra high quality traits then rushes to make seeds with them and the cycle perpetuates pollen chuck after pollen chuck.

ultimately it could severally bottleneck and contaminate the gene pool with strains that have a "terminator gene" of sorts but instead of non viable seeds its the clones that fail... forcing the grower to get more seeds or other clones that the Pd1 hasn't been inadvertently bred out of.

seeing as both sour dub and GG have this issue and seeing as how they are related it doesn't seem impossible, as apocalyptic as it sounds.

Disclaimer: NONE if this is true, as far as I know no gene or protein of this sort exists


Wouldn't that be CRAZY catastrophic?



I'm not saying we shouldn't grow these plants nor am I saying we shouldn't breed these plants... hell I want to... what I think should be done is keep them isolated, given the propensity for intersex traits, keep them and their progeny/outcrosses closely and tightly contained from being able to interact with other strains and grow rooms until we know whats up and or find a way to fix it. So that IF this problem is with the genotype it doesn't spread before, and if, it can be fixed.

I think its best to maintain a slow roll rather than rush into things and breed everything to GG and end up with consequences down the road

 

[Infinitesimal]

Another observation is some of those pics are obviously revegged clones of varying degrees from flower which behave differently and surely show different growth. Just a thought, hope whoever has this issue the best. I have a clone that was just a tiny nub on a stick and it grew out funny as fuck until it sorted itself with maturity.

Lets hear about the environment these duds come from as well. PH, feeding schedule, does your growing medium have good drainage, just posting a pic and blaming it on the plant isnt going to solve anything. One clone grown in tens of thousands of different environments is bound to grow differently for people tbh.

true, woody stems and funny leaves can be caused by all kinds of things... I think its phosphorus or potassium def that causes woody brittle stems for instance

 

[Tonygreen]

Sam made a good point I think he mentioned about where the cutting came from off a plant. I would wager alot of people sharing or selling cuts are taking them from less desirable spots which can lead to slow rooting and rebounding overall. I would really like to see data about environments before anyone can make a definite answer here. I know for sure where you take a cutting from and what time of the plants life cycle can make a huge difference in growth patterns.

In the case of gg4, shes passed around from so many people so many environments it doesn't surprise me to see different growth. I mean just for instance couple of pics here I see the soil looks really heavy and not good drainage, that can make a huge difference in growth.

 

[Crooked8]

Ugh, really? Ppl are saying its just a branch or even the soil its in? For the several people who all grow different styles with the same symptoms? Please....i know duds dont have to effect entire plants but still. Theres too much consistency here.

 

[Tonygreen]

I see anything but consistency, in any of those pics to be quite honest. Thousand of thousands of people have the same cut, grown in different environments and passed around and recut from various stages of growth. For the thousands of cuts going around I see a small sample of people using the term dud as if it is science.

Now what we dont even want to look at grow environments and conditions and as relevant data? Purple said it himself he had to learn what she liked. You guys could have shit chompin at your roots or something, might be worth taking a look... Im saying lets bust out that microscope, look at the roots and other structure on the plant, lets see some real data.

 

[Tonygreen]

This is relevant (I wish not)? The stems feel very rigid/woody relative to adjacent development... Also reproductive development very slow - plant @ day 35 and minimal frost and aroma... have wondered if it was due to stress. There is no hiding something is very wrong here... I have recognized some white spots on certain fan leaves but even under a scope I have not identified mites....yet? Should I begin crying?

View Image View Image

Appears this will be more appropriate in the Broad Mite thread...

Tom this might be worth thinking about in your situation as a possibility for that bugger...

Nitrogen Toxicity
Leaves are often dark green and in the early stages abundant with foliage. If excess is severe, leaves will dry and begin to fall off. Root system will remain under developed or deteriorate after time. Fruit and flower set will be inhibited or deformed.
With breakdown of vascular tissue restricting water uptake. Stress resistance is drastically diminished.


This is seen often and easiest in sativas and deformed flowering is easy with too much N.



I wish someone with these "duds" would get a scope and check out their roots, heh. What shape are they in?