What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

Status
Not open for further replies.

grow nerd

Active member
Veteran
Storm Shadow, that is the exact type of "dud"ing I am familiar with.

Seen it while growing in coco quite a few times (from purchased clones), so I know coco isn't immune.
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
STUDS and DUDS

Those that know the symptoms will notice this look right away

ASTER YELLOW DISEASE

picture.php

picture.php

picture.php

picture.php
 

pappy masonjar

Well-known member
Veteran
Looks like the plants have Cirrhosis of the liver.
Scary stuff.
I saw a picture of my friends dudded ghost OG, and it looked very similar.
Thanks for sharing Stormshdow:tiphat:
 

Greyskull

Twice as clear as heaven and twice as loud as reas
ICMag Donor
Veteran
this veg duds have that "candelabra" thing going for them
 

mofeta

Member
Veteran
For those that forgot.... the plant on the right is a DUD in veg

View Image

DUD plants will not produce Healthy Large Fan Leaves... Maybe Branches that haven't yet been effected...

This again ...DUD on the right... For those that doubt or who no idea.. here it is again ...

View Image


THANK YOU! This gives a lot of clarity, like I said before, I was unable to read the whole thread, and was confused about what exactly was being discussed. When I was skimming it I saw pictures of different problems, so it was unclear to me as to what constituted a dud.

So this is what the Sour Dub duds look like? This is what the OP was talking about?

So the plant on the right is infected with Phytoplasma? Have you confirmed this in a lab, or are you relying on deduction?

Thanks again, and thanks for the info on lifting previously.

EDIT: Hey I just looked at that other post of yours replying to my questions, for some reason it was not displaying properly for me before and all I saw was the answers to the lifting questions. I have now read the other answers on the dud thing, thanks a lot, I now have a clear understanding of the nature of the problem, and your diagnosis. Looks good on the face of it.
 

nofriend

Member
Just throwing this out there...

For the past 8 months I have been broad mite symptom free. After struggling with heat treatments and og biowar for broad mites, now I spray twice a week with botanigard 22WP at 10 grams per gallon. After spraying with botanigard I turn off all fans and exhaust and allow the plants to soak in the spray for one hour before restarting the fans and exhaust. I also spray a spinosad at 2 oz gallon combined with azamax at 1 oz / gallon every other week. Sometimes I miss a spray, but I know the BM is lurking. I dont spray botanigard past the third week of flower. I dont spray the azamax/spinosad past the first week of flower. Sorry to be off topic but the "broad mites?" thread closed.

Botanigard is much safer than avid and forbid.

I only can recount my experiences. This is not real science.
 
I love kontos due to the fact that its easy to get good coverage. Storm do you suggest a simple spray, drench, or both? Also should I use indicate 5 during the drench? Also are you still using the bonide sulfur/ pyretherin spray ?

A new one I like is magus. Same mode of action as floramite however it lists eriophyd and tarsonied for contact and digestion . Should be used very early, before the kontos, because it provides a long residual. What's great is that it provides quick control where as the kontos takes a while. Haven't observed any phytotoxicty at 1ml per gal.

Have several suspected Sfv and sour duds in my dep beds. Should I worry about the symptoms spreading to other plants in the same bed and green house?

Also tried knocking up an Sfv with some 5g red pollen and it hasn't taken while the peyote purple and numerous others did. Is it safe to say dudded plants can no longer make seeds? Thanks in advance.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Look for the neon green leaves around the budsites. I know what you mean by a summer run but that would be less dramatic. The dudded buds will lack smell, structure and trichs. Storm shadow just showed a perfect side by side example there.
 

whatthe215

Active member
Veteran
so what's the primary vector of AYP (aster yellow phytoplasma) for us? Gnats I assume.

the new best reason to kill all plant biting insects in our gardens.
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/890/art%253A10.1007%252Fs10327-014-0512-8.pdf?auth66=1402162010_34544dbd7b24cf66b3880f8d9e5c967b&ext=.pdf

Exploring the phytoplasmas, plant pathogenic bacteria

Abstract​
Phytoplasmas are plant pathogenic bacteria associated with devastating damage to over 700 plant

species worldwide. It is agriculturally important to identify factors involved in their pathogenicity and to discover effective measures to control phytoplasma diseases. Despite their economic importance, phytoplasmas remain the most poorly characterized plant pathogens, primarily because efforts at in vitro culture, gene delivery, and mutagenesis have been unsuccessful. However, recent molecular studies have revealed unique biological features of phytoplasmas. This review summarizes the history and recent progress in phytoplasma research, focusing on (1) the discovery of phytoplasmas, (2) molecular classification of phytoplasmas, (3) diagnosis of phytoplasma diseases, (4) reductive evolution of the genomes, (5) characteristic features of the plasmids, (6) molecular mechanisms of insect transmissibility, and (7) virulence factors involved in their unique symptoms.


Concluding remarks​
Although phytoplasmas remain the most poorly characterized​
phytopathogens, recent studies have identified virulence​
factors that induce typical phytoplasma disease symptoms and have characterized the unique reductive evolution of the genome. Phytoplasma-related diseases are expected to increase because the warming global climate is advantageous to the cold-sensitive vectors of the phytoplasmas. Therefore, pest control and detection of phytoplasmas are important. Further analysis of phytoplasmas at the molecular level will increase our understanding of these economically important and biologically fascinating microorganisms.
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
Genetics that can withstand cold weather are sounding more appealing each article I read...

We need to find some strains that are 100% resistance to AYP and do some real breeding .....
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
STUDS and DUDS

Those that know the symptoms will notice this look right away

ASTER YELLOW DISEASE

View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image

Storm, was this diagnosed through a lab by chance? Whenever I see newer growth yellowing it can be a little difficult narrowing down the cause. I would also suspect either too much or too little NPK and trace elements. Ph issues and watering could be a cause as well it seems, not knowing conditions at the site.
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/parasite-turns-plant-flowerless-zombies

Parasite Turns Plant Into Flowerless Zombies
ed2c71c3-c620-4960-b379-aaba4dcaf7a9_3_Arabidopsis%20-%20zombie_490x330.jpg

A parasitic bacterium has found a way to turn its host plant sterile, forcing it to grow leaves instead of flowers. This change makes the plant more attractive as feeding and breeding grounds for insects called leafhoppers, and after the bugs eat the plants, the bacteria hitch a ride in their saliva and on to the next plant.

Pathogens that rely on more than one host to complete their life cycle often modify the behavior and development of each, coercing them into improving the parasite's survival and reproduction. These sorts of parasitic mind control take all kinds of forms: from sexually-transmitted viruses that sterilize crickets but leaves them horny to liver flukes that compel ants to climb a blade of grass into a cow’s mouth. Fascinating, yes, but there are surprisingly few studies that describe the mechanisms behind host coercion. How do parasites actually do this?

“We know these parasites are puppet masters but the strings they are pulling have yet to be identified,” Saskia Hogenhout from the John Innes Centre in Norwich, U.K., says in news release.

So, Hogenhout and colleagues figured out how it works in one particular host-parasite relationship. A bacterial plant parasite called phytoplasma relies on insects like leafhoppers (Macrosteles quadrilineatus) for its dispersal to crops like grapes, coconuts, and oilseed rape. Once there, the insect-transmitted pathogen alters the floral development, converting flowers into vegetative tissue and causing a proliferation of stems known as “witches' broom.” All these parasite-induced transformations end up sterilizing the plant and turning it into more attractive sites for the egg-laying of their leafhopper vectors. The bacteria colonize the bugs when they eat the plants, and later when they dribble saliva as they suck the sap of another plant, the bacteria spread into new plant tissue. It’s a simple tragic love triangle, really.

“The plant appears alive, but it’s only there for the good of the pathogen,” Hogenhout tells Nature. “In an evolutionary sense, the plant is dead and will not produce offspring.”

d11d1613-cf93-4b65-9361-bee9b89a904a_healthy.jpg


First, the team identified the virulence protein behind all the transformations: SAP54. It exerts its effect by degrading proteins that regulate important developmental processes in flowering plants. (Reducing the activity of those proteins in the lab generated sterile plants.) Then, they discovered that their degradation process relies on the manipulation of a single plant protein called RAD23, which shuttles molecules to the protein degradation machinery. That's normally necessary for waste disposal in the plant, but in this case, RAD23 sends the flower-making proteins off for destruction.

Additionally, choice tests showed how leafhoppers lay more eggs in infected plants with leaf-like flowers than healthy plants. They seem to prefer the new vegetative biomass over the wild floral whorls, possibly because the new arrangement lowers the plant’s natural defenses against the insects. An effector that targets and suppresses flowering while simultaneously promoting insect colonization is unprecedented. “This parasite is incapable of surviving without its insect and plant hosts and we can reveal for the first time how it is able to manipulate them both,” Hogenhout says.
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://ottersandsciencenews.blogspot.com/2014/04/parasite-turns-plants-into-zombies.html

PARASITE TURNS PLANTS INTO ZOMBIES


After sterilisation caused by a parasite called phytoplasmas, the plants stay alive - but only for the good of the pathogen
The petals turn green to look like leaves and attract insects that will help the parasite spread to other nearby plants
It affects a range of plants, turning flowers into leaf tissue or producing a profusion of stems known as Witches' Broom
A parasitic bacterium, called phytoplasmas, hijacks the reproductive organs of a plant and sterilises it so that the plants stay alive, but only for the good of the pathogen. By turning the flower into what looks like a leaf, insects called leafhoppers, which carry and spread the parasite, are attracted. This ensures that the bacteria is spread far and wide.

Other parasites are known to infect and control the brains of ants and can make rats more susceptible to predation. ‘We know these parasites are puppet masters but the strings they are pulling have yet to be identified,’ said Professor Saskia Hogenhout from the John Innes Centre in Norwich. ‘For the first time, we can reveal how this remarkable manipulation takes place [in plants]. 'In that sense, the plant world is ahead of animal biology – where manipulations also take place but no mechanisms have been uncovered to show how.’

The plant parasite in her study is spread by insects that grow on plants. It induces the plant to transform its flowers into leaves, sacrificing its reproductive success and becoming sterile. It becomes a zombie plant with no prospect of reproducing and is dependent on the survival of the bacteria.

Together with scientists at Wageningen University in the Netherlands, the team discovered that the parasitic bacterium produces a protein called SAP54 that is essential to this process. And the protein is dependent on a family of plant proteins called RAD23.

The bacterium affects a broad range of plants, turning flowers green, transforming them into leaf tissue or producing a profusion of stems known as Witches' Broom. It is currently controlled by pesticides because it can also infect crops including: maize, wheat, carrots, tomatoes, potato, oilseed rape, and grapes.

The scientists hope that their breakthrough could lead to new ways of controlling the bacteria by disrupting the protein without using pesticides.

Infected plant parts are eaten by leafhoppers and the bacterium then colonises the insects, including their salivary glands. If the insect dribbles saliva as it sucks on another plant, the bacterium is able to spread onto new plant tissue, where it sets to work on making the plant more attractive to leafhoppers.

The SAP54 and RAD23 proteins force the plant to transform its flowers into leaf-like material and become more attractive to leafhoppers. The leafhoppers pick up the bacterium from infected plants and can then spread the bacterial pathogen to more plants.

Professor Hogenhout said: ‘This parasite is incapable of surviving without its insect and plant hosts and we showed that a parasite protein connects distinct processes in its host plant to manipulate both the plant and the insect. Dr Allyson MacLean, of the John Innes Centre, who is the lead author of the study, published in the journal PLOS Biology, said: ‘It is fascinating to consider that this bacterium is able to manipulate the way plants grow and the way insects behave to suit its own needs.’

SIGNS A PLANT IS A ZOMBIE

Flowers slowly become greener
They change texture to become more leaf-like and when they renew they are more similar to leaf-like structures.
A profusion of stems known as Witches' Brooms can also grow in place of the flowers, meaning that the plant is unable to reproduce.
Symptomatic plants are more attractive to leafhoppers - which carry the parasite - and may be visible on infected plants, before they move on to fresh victims
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://www.ipwgnet.org/doc/cost/ist... for the phytoplasma diseases containment.pdf

Conventional and novel strategies for the phytoplasma diseases containment

Phytoplasmas are obligate bacterial plant pathogens that cause economically relevant yield losses in annual and perennial crops worldwide and they are transmitted in nature by phloem feeders, mostly
leafhoppers, planthoppers and psyllids. Impossibility of cultivating phytoplasma impairs the development
of efficient methods to control these pathogens. Conventional strategies for phytoplasma containment
are based on pesticide application against insect vectors and the use of resistant plants (when available).
Owing to the great yield losses caused by phytoplasmas, their absence from propagation materials is
essential for sustainable plant production. This is particularly important for vegetatively propagated crops
in which infected planting materials transmit the pathogen to the new crop. Pathogen
free plants have been obtained using many different techniques, such as shoot tip culture, thermotherapy, leaf tissuederived
somatic embryogenesis, stem culture, treatment of plant tissues with antibiotics and cryotherapy
of shoot tips. Moreover, other strategies have been tested, namely: (i) production of transgenic plants
expressing antibodies against the major phytoplasma membrane protein (ii) production of transgenic
plants expressing antimicrobial peptides; and (iii) protecting the plants using elicitins, small proteins that
stimulate P protein plugs and callose release in phloem sieve elements (Laimer
et al., 2009). Till today, such treatments against phytoplasmas have been proved partially ineffective.
Current studies evidenced that a promising approach concerns the use of natural or induced
resistance. Different compounds tested as resistance inducers were able to suppress symptoms on
specific phytoplasma strain but they have limited applications (Romanazzi
et al., 2009). Recently, there has been an increasing interest in the use of biocontrol agents that could be employed in
different strategies: (i) study of microorganisms which are pathogenic to the insect (Schnepf
et al.,1998), (ii) symbiotic microorganisms able to reduce vector competence (Beard
et al., 1998); (iii) antagonisms mediated by the production of allelochemicals; (iv) induction of plant defense response.
For example, reduced symptom expression in phytoplasmainfected plants treated with arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (Kaminska
et al., 2010) and Epicoccum nigrum Link (Musetti et al., 2011) were recently reported. Moreover, studies on bacteria as potential biocontrol agents or plant resistance inducers have given promising results (Gamalero et al., 2010; Bulgari et al., 2011).

 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/800.1

Tetracycline Therapy Against Phytoplasma Causing Yellowing Disease of Date Palms

Magdy Shaban Montasser, Asma M. Hanif, Husain A. Al_Awadhi and Patrice Suleman
Biological Sciences, University of Kuwait, Safat, Kuwait

An outbreak of phytoplasma microorganisms was observed in date palms grown in Kuwait. Phytoplasma are widespread prokaryotic microorganisms that infect palm trees, ornamentals and some horticultural crops. It sometimes causes lethal yellowing diseases in palm trees, which also multiplies in the host plant grown in tissue culture and spread infections by insect vectors. The presence of phytoplasma was detected by using both transmission and scanning electron microscopy. Fluorescence microscopy was used to detect DNA contents of the causal microorganism. Tetracycline therapy was carried out as a further evidence for the presence of the phytoplasma and as an attempt to control the disease. Infected young palms treated with tetracycline-HCl at early stages of the phytoplasmal infection showed remission of the yellowing symptoms. We show in this work that by injecting the infected young palm trees with tetracycline antibiotic the treated plants were recovered. The use of antibiotic treatment is valuable for the control of yellows disease in date palms especially in the areas where the pathogen is endemic and causes extreme crop losses. Companies producing date palm trees in tissue culture and growers will especially benefit from this knowledge in the development of control strategies for yellow diseases that are caused by phytoplasma.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top