Natural high
Member
It seems many south-east Asian sativa's that show intersex are exclusively females and the population can exist without males. All seeds are from hermaphrodite breeding and the male becomes obsolete.
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Does a Male or Female Pass On More genetics to Their Offspring?
- Thread starter Burro Johnson
- Start date
the above statement is completely wrong. the foundation of all genetics today is sativa L / hemp.
as prof dr. ivan bocsa and other dr have proven, hemp is dioecious, monoeciousness is artificial created by man and those lines will revert back to dioecious over a few generations if not manipulated.
causation in thai hermaphroditism is only for those trumpeting the S1 revolution. and they can't explain why or what causes it in thailand, or when something is pulled from ecosystem / latitude / sea level, look towards eradication efforts and survival traits driven from this.
as prof dr. ivan bocsa and other dr have proven, hemp is dioecious, monoeciousness is artificial created by man and those lines will revert back to dioecious over a few generations if not manipulated.
causation in thai hermaphroditism is only for those trumpeting the S1 revolution. and they can't explain why or what causes it in thailand, or when something is pulled from ecosystem / latitude / sea level, look towards eradication efforts and survival traits driven from this.
Natural high
Member
I stand by what I said in my post above. I have seen it first hand. It is obvious from your previous posts you have a hatred for anything selfed or feminised, and continually push the idea that anything other than diecious is unnatural and therefore it must be bad.
I readed also the same from Dr. Ivan Bocsa and I was expecting someday will appear a male.
http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/hemp/iha/iha01215.html
But I was growing as many plants I could for several years and I found no males. I guess if Dr. Bocsa had some pollen flying arround from other strains.
Lyster Dewey said he only found intersexuals in a psychoactive strain from India.
I think intersesed traits are favored by the sinsemilla technique. If you cull all the males, you will only get seeds from intersexed plants. Then the intersexed trait is spreaded if you grow those seeds. As most SE Asian weed grown in Western countries is from seeds found in buds, and not from seeds made by the farmers for growing the next crop. It could be an explanation to that fact. Also different photoperiods, lower temps and lower light levels can be stressing for a tropical plant.
I have read there is a feminized S1 strain sold as regular because sometimes males appear. But perhaps they are not real males because they have no Y chromosome. I think they could be intersexed females with a strong full male expression.
plant survival triggers will cause monoeciousness.
this happens when stress is introduced / survival. it's an annual plant. cloning done by man is not the norm in nature.
do you understand plants communicate with those around them during life cycle even in a tent ? and growing a plant indoors also applied stress. a plant records the red spectrum at day and dusk, it records the angle of the sun, it records the night time length. all this information is stored in the genetic code passed down through generations, then combined when its starts recording inputs or stressors'
this happens when stress is introduced / survival. it's an annual plant. cloning done by man is not the norm in nature.
do you understand plants communicate with those around them during life cycle even in a tent ? and growing a plant indoors also applied stress. a plant records the red spectrum at day and dusk, it records the angle of the sun, it records the night time length. all this information is stored in the genetic code passed down through generations, then combined when its starts recording inputs or stressors'
Natural high
Member
An isolated hermaphrodite population will remain that way indefinitely. A female cannot revert back to male and only an introduced male could shift the population back to diecious over time with appropiate selection pressure. We can argue till the cows come home as to the origins of intersex populations but the fact is they exist.
very big difference making assumptions when manipulation by man is weighed against centuries of something grow via natural selection or left unchecked by eradication efforts who's information inputs can be stored for future generations. as luther burbank proved with needles on cactus and what produced this defense in a desert.
who is isolating it, again man. if its left in an open field self pollinated then further generations produce males, it will revert.
man is creating this S1 populations. you do not see this springing forth naturally. look at all the breeders releasing male and females. hermaphrodite does not take over ..... if grown in a climate that its adapted to. now the second you grow it indoors, or you start culling males, indoor climate stressors, sure, you reap what you sow'
man is creating this S1 populations. you do not see this springing forth naturally. look at all the breeders releasing male and females. hermaphrodite does not take over ..... if grown in a climate that its adapted to. now the second you grow it indoors, or you start culling males, indoor climate stressors, sure, you reap what you sow'
other S1's have produced 'males'
i've seen one myself, though it never really put much in the way of flowers
no pistils either, perhaps it was sexless, if that is possible
Hi, As you can understand I wasn't able to grow many hundreds or thousands plants to see if I can find a male 
I was only able to grow a few dozens. In fact I was more limited by the low germination rate due to inbreeding than lack of space or time. I can only grow outdoors and here frost don't kill the plants. So indoor light spectrum was no responsible for intersexed plants.
I agree if there is no pollen from males, females or intersexed females will not make male offspring. At least XY males will not appear magically.
On the other hand I cannot reject the possibility that a phenotypically male could appear, but it should be a XX, not XY. Perhaps a lack of ethylene synthesis or a lack of response for ethylene?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227403
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231950
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=345893
I don't know about the offspring from any of those "males". I have none and I have seen nobody making seeds with them. I would like to know if the descendants, at least in pehotype, would be like common XY males, giving an offspring with 50% males and 50% females, with no or low intersex incidence. I guess they aren't because then in the DNA tests, scientists would have discovered some strains with XX males. As far as I know there is no evidence about such thing.
I was only able to grow a few dozens. In fact I was more limited by the low germination rate due to inbreeding than lack of space or time. I can only grow outdoors and here frost don't kill the plants. So indoor light spectrum was no responsible for intersexed plants.
I agree if there is no pollen from males, females or intersexed females will not make male offspring. At least XY males will not appear magically.
On the other hand I cannot reject the possibility that a phenotypically male could appear, but it should be a XX, not XY. Perhaps a lack of ethylene synthesis or a lack of response for ethylene?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227403
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231950
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=345893
I don't know about the offspring from any of those "males". I have none and I have seen nobody making seeds with them. I would like to know if the descendants, at least in pehotype, would be like common XY males, giving an offspring with 50% males and 50% females, with no or low intersex incidence. I guess they aren't because then in the DNA tests, scientists would have discovered some strains with XX males. As far as I know there is no evidence about such thing.
who made the genetics / current generation of seeds grown ? what conditions are they produced in ( ecosystem, latitude indoors or out ) ? this genetic information / stress is now stored in said seeds till " corrected " over the next few generations .....
introducing peyote purple into discussion must be weighted against these truth's .... or any genetics being grow as the previous generations of inputs extremely important when making assumptions.
introducing peyote purple into discussion must be weighted against these truth's .... or any genetics being grow as the previous generations of inputs extremely important when making assumptions.
Hi. I feel not very confortable talking here about intersex because the thread was made asking for something different.
The genetics was made by farmers from Northern Sumatra along centuries, I guess. I was given some seeds by a friend of the person who travelled there and collected those seeds. They aren't currently growing because lack of germination
They were grown outdoors in pots at 36ºN. Sadly there are not many sunlight hours in the place. Anyway you can grow those seeds everywhere they grow they will be intersexed. At first the plants sexed as males, but later they developed pistillate flowers. And finally they lost the male flowers. You got seeded buds but not so many seeds as one could think. I have only found two plants which I found no male flowers. But no males.
I don't know if the strees is stored in the seeds (epigenetics). I think it is more possible a great inbreeding depression due to intersex selfing. They lack a reasonable germination rate since the first time I grew them.
I introduced the links about Peyote Purple S1 "males" as a clue that you can find "males". But if there is no Y chromsome those "males" aren't common males.
I wish I would have found a bunch of males and I would have selected the strain towards a normal situation with males and females, avoiding intesexed individuals and keeping the strain as a pure 100% heirloom sativa/NLD, which are difficult to find these days. But facts are facts, not what I wish they would be.
At least in my little experience I think intersex is strongly linked to genetics. Enviroment and stress can have their own effect but if your plant don't carry an intersex trait to a greater or lesser degree it is difficult you get male flowers in a female by simple stress. You will need a chemical ethylene supressor or blocking such as CS or STS.
The genetics was made by farmers from Northern Sumatra along centuries, I guess. I was given some seeds by a friend of the person who travelled there and collected those seeds. They aren't currently growing because lack of germination
They were grown outdoors in pots at 36ºN. Sadly there are not many sunlight hours in the place. Anyway you can grow those seeds everywhere they grow they will be intersexed. At first the plants sexed as males, but later they developed pistillate flowers. And finally they lost the male flowers. You got seeded buds but not so many seeds as one could think. I have only found two plants which I found no male flowers. But no males.
I don't know if the strees is stored in the seeds (epigenetics). I think it is more possible a great inbreeding depression due to intersex selfing. They lack a reasonable germination rate since the first time I grew them.
I introduced the links about Peyote Purple S1 "males" as a clue that you can find "males". But if there is no Y chromsome those "males" aren't common males.
I wish I would have found a bunch of males and I would have selected the strain towards a normal situation with males and females, avoiding intesexed individuals and keeping the strain as a pure 100% heirloom sativa/NLD, which are difficult to find these days. But facts are facts, not what I wish they would be.
At least in my little experience I think intersex is strongly linked to genetics. Enviroment and stress can have their own effect but if your plant don't carry an intersex trait to a greater or lesser degree it is difficult you get male flowers in a female by simple stress. You will need a chemical ethylene supressor or blocking such as CS or STS.
do you have a thread with this inbreed line from sumatra ? that your basing your knowledge upon that contradicts Hemp breeders for last 100 years ?
and yes stresses are stored in the seeds. again, read up on luther burbank and his 200,000 - 600,000 selection processes and knowledge regarding environment changing the genetics held within said seed. you understand if grown enough plants you can find plants without trichomes ? or why cactus have needles and how they can be eliminated
because passing along the same folklore indeed the easier road travelled but leaves the community stuck in said rut'
and yes stresses are stored in the seeds. again, read up on luther burbank and his 200,000 - 600,000 selection processes and knowledge regarding environment changing the genetics held within said seed. you understand if grown enough plants you can find plants without trichomes ? or why cactus have needles and how they can be eliminated
because passing along the same folklore indeed the easier road travelled but leaves the community stuck in said rut'
have you got any links or citations to back up any of these things you are saying?
Cannabis is an annual, i don't see a selectional advantage for it to store up so much knowledge about last year's environmental conditions. Growing seasons in different years can be very different, and patterns or trends only emerge over many years. Plants respond primarily to the conditions they experience in real time, thats what PGIs do (plant growth regulators).
I did a small repro of Mr. G's Cherry Bomb indoors a few years ago, in a tiny cabinet, artificial light. The year after someone grew them outdoors and the plants expressed themselves beautifully, looked happy and grew bloody huge.
Epigenetics are an interesting subject but cannabis ime responds to its genome and the real time conditions that it is being grown in, as we would expect.
VG
I did a small repro of Mr. G's Cherry Bomb indoors a few years ago, in a tiny cabinet, artificial light. The year after someone grew them outdoors and the plants expressed themselves beautifully, looked happy and grew bloody huge.
Epigenetics are an interesting subject but cannabis ime responds to its genome and the real time conditions that it is being grown in, as we would expect.
VG
Hi. I have only posted a few pics of some Sumatran plants. Some of them not grown by myself. I think my conclusions aren't against any hemp breeder. In fact I think I agree most of them. I have grown heirloom Thai in the same place and conditions with no such intersex problems.
I agree with you. Stress can be inherited. And not only in plants.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...caust-survivors-have-altered-stress-hormones/
For me intersexed plants are not such a great problem as for most growers. I have grown them many times even knowing the seeds would yield intersexed plants. I preffer a good 100% NLD intersex heirloom than any new fancy hybrid.
I can only tell what I have seen. Or what I believe I have seen in my limited experience. I am not in possesion of any truth and I am don't want to impose my thoughts to anybody.
If you grow enough plants you can get some mutants. Also you can select them if you like the mutation. I think already hemp without trichomes have been selected by French hemp breeders to avoid any THC production.
I have interrupted night cycle in Thai females intentionally and I get no luck inducing them male flowers formation. I did it because at first I get no males and I wanted to make seeds.
Greetings.
I agree with you. Stress can be inherited. And not only in plants.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...caust-survivors-have-altered-stress-hormones/
For me intersexed plants are not such a great problem as for most growers. I have grown them many times even knowing the seeds would yield intersexed plants. I preffer a good 100% NLD intersex heirloom than any new fancy hybrid.
I can only tell what I have seen. Or what I believe I have seen in my limited experience. I am not in possesion of any truth and I am don't want to impose my thoughts to anybody.
If you grow enough plants you can get some mutants. Also you can select them if you like the mutation. I think already hemp without trichomes have been selected by French hemp breeders to avoid any THC production.
I have interrupted night cycle in Thai females intentionally and I get no luck inducing them male flowers formation. I did it because at first I get no males and I wanted to make seeds.
Greetings.
let's break this down really quick.
please research other plants that have both male and female tendencies within one family.
now, if growing a field of plants lets say 40 and you remove the males ahead of time and let all females grow past harvest they will go herm ( because of survival trait within / stress ) as it's an annual plant.
now being an annual plant. something that from it's creation uses seed for the next generation so it can continue advancing as ecosystem or host surroundings change. is it really hard to grasp the fact that cloning is not a natural event. the plant is no longer advancing against stress like its indoor habitat, or against dangers presented by predators or by chemicals being poured upon it ....
regarding zero points. for doing testing you must have a zero point or the testing done is void as a assumption could be born false. so you can't start making assumptions about nutrients or timing for feeding unless you already have a zero point of certain quality then once applying change you can see if something works or it does not. transpiration breakdown flashes many nutrient deficiencies that fool 95% into making changes with feeding when in fact its the environment thats causing this issue....
please research other plants that have both male and female tendencies within one family.
now, if growing a field of plants lets say 40 and you remove the males ahead of time and let all females grow past harvest they will go herm ( because of survival trait within / stress ) as it's an annual plant.
now being an annual plant. something that from it's creation uses seed for the next generation so it can continue advancing as ecosystem or host surroundings change. is it really hard to grasp the fact that cloning is not a natural event. the plant is no longer advancing against stress like its indoor habitat, or against dangers presented by predators or by chemicals being poured upon it ....
regarding zero points. for doing testing you must have a zero point or the testing done is void as a assumption could be born false. so you can't start making assumptions about nutrients or timing for feeding unless you already have a zero point of certain quality then once applying change you can see if something works or it does not. transpiration breakdown flashes many nutrient deficiencies that fool 95% into making changes with feeding when in fact its the environment thats causing this issue....
