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DIESEL GENERATOR, (as your primary power source)
- Thread starter I.M. Boggled
- Start date
G
Guest
does anyone have a good link on the design or setup of the battery system with inverters?
whoamI?whoRu!
New member
For a grow show for profit...pay for the fuel and just throw away the gen-set when it goes and get a new one...and you'll still be way ahead in the pocket book.
Any effort you put into it in order to save a few bucks is indeed a 100% savings in the true sense...but stuff like making your own biodiesel, my time is worth more than the savings.
When possible...never use a 3600rpm unit. But they are actually cheap enough that you could literally run one crop and toss 'em and still be in the profit zone on smaller rooms.
The reality...use ONLY a low rpm diesel unit if you'll be setup for a while.
Generally, people in rural areas are nosy bastards, but under the disguise of being super friendly/neighborly. You must have your stories str8, but stories will rarely fly. You'll have to be 100% stealth.
Any effort you put into it in order to save a few bucks is indeed a 100% savings in the true sense...but stuff like making your own biodiesel, my time is worth more than the savings.
When possible...never use a 3600rpm unit. But they are actually cheap enough that you could literally run one crop and toss 'em and still be in the profit zone on smaller rooms.
The reality...use ONLY a low rpm diesel unit if you'll be setup for a while.
Generally, people in rural areas are nosy bastards, but under the disguise of being super friendly/neighborly. You must have your stories str8, but stories will rarely fly. You'll have to be 100% stealth.
if you run bio diesel in a regular diesel genny you need to switch any rubber lines . the alcohol in bio diesel turns em to goo. good thread. too bad you aint here GDW got a few brand new tanks lying around LOL.
G
Guest
I'm here, but not there, and always watching. lolol What size tanks are you talking about? I've been looking at the 286 gallon tanks for my fuel cell. Don't know if i'll place it in the ground or on a stand above. Should be enough to room my generator for about a week and half at full load. 21K's Baby,lol
Later
Later
Well shit hit the fan for me, now I'm off on another project.
But I've been reading over and over (in Canada anyway) that running off the grid is no big deal, unless in b.c right now. So I've already decided fuck then gen, I'm plugging 16 ballasts on a 200amp main panel with flip flops, for 32kw in the flowering room....
I think the country comment that neighbours are nosey, depends where you live. My buddy in the country has been there for 10+ years, doesnt even know his neighbour...knows his name, but not him personally.
But I've been reading over and over (in Canada anyway) that running off the grid is no big deal, unless in b.c right now. So I've already decided fuck then gen, I'm plugging 16 ballasts on a 200amp main panel with flip flops, for 32kw in the flowering room....
I think the country comment that neighbours are nosey, depends where you live. My buddy in the country has been there for 10+ years, doesnt even know his neighbour...knows his name, but not him personally.
G
Guest
I'd like to thanks I.M. Boggled for starting this thread. I also figured it was time for alittle bump in the thread also. Here's what i got going on.
Well, to those that have been following and posting. I'm really thinking about buying a diesel generator, but i've made alittle changes to my plans. I'm thinking along the lines for a smaller generator and have been doing some researching. I've made up my mind for now, lol. I'm going to be picking up a slow-turning diesel generator. These have been used for many years and there are two different types. The older ones which are the "Lister" motor's and the new modern type with a pull rope or electric starter with cool gauges and panel. I'll post some pictures soon and go over the model's i'm looking at. Along with specs and prices, but here are some number for lights. These numbers are what your going to need to know if your thinking about running off a genset. More to come, just got to gather all the info.
Take care,
BG
Approximate Amperage
At 120 Volts
400 watt = 3.8 amps
430 watt = 5.2 amps
600 watt = 5.5 amps
At 240 volts
400 watt = 1.9 amps
430 watt = 2.6 amps
600 watt = 2.9 amps
Well, to those that have been following and posting. I'm really thinking about buying a diesel generator, but i've made alittle changes to my plans. I'm thinking along the lines for a smaller generator and have been doing some researching. I've made up my mind for now, lol. I'm going to be picking up a slow-turning diesel generator. These have been used for many years and there are two different types. The older ones which are the "Lister" motor's and the new modern type with a pull rope or electric starter with cool gauges and panel. I'll post some pictures soon and go over the model's i'm looking at. Along with specs and prices, but here are some number for lights. These numbers are what your going to need to know if your thinking about running off a genset. More to come, just got to gather all the info.
Take care,
BG
Approximate Amperage
At 120 Volts
400 watt = 3.8 amps
430 watt = 5.2 amps
600 watt = 5.5 amps
At 240 volts
400 watt = 1.9 amps
430 watt = 2.6 amps
600 watt = 2.9 amps
G
Guest
Personally, I'm going with 240 volts ballast. The new units that are out. Are multy tapped and all you have to do is unplug the cord and swap out to the 240 cord. No more opening up the ballast box and messing with wires. Plus, I can run more light on generator then with 120 volts. Here is some info i found on one of the Hydroponic Supply sites.
Barrowed info
120 volt or 240 volt, am I saving electricity?
This is the biggest myth in the indoor gardening world. There is absolutely no energy savings by using 240 volts instead of 120 volts. Remember back to your high school science class, you learned something called "Ohm's Law", that states P = I * E. In this equation, P = Power (watts), I = current (Amps), E = Voltage. To demonstrate, a typical 400 watt HPS lighting system is rated at 3.8 Amps at 120 volts or 1.9 Amps at 240 volts. (This information can be found on the electrical label found on your lighting system's ballast unit). Therefore the energy used for the 400w HPS light for the different voltages is: 120v = 3.8 Amps x 120 volts = 456 watts 240v = 1.9 Amps x 240 volts = 456 watts While there is no energy savings associated with using 240 volts, there is an advantage for indoor gardens that are utilizing many lights. Basically you can operate twice the amount of lighting systems on a 240 volt circuit than you can on a 120 volt circuit.
Barrowed info
120 volt or 240 volt, am I saving electricity?
This is the biggest myth in the indoor gardening world. There is absolutely no energy savings by using 240 volts instead of 120 volts. Remember back to your high school science class, you learned something called "Ohm's Law", that states P = I * E. In this equation, P = Power (watts), I = current (Amps), E = Voltage. To demonstrate, a typical 400 watt HPS lighting system is rated at 3.8 Amps at 120 volts or 1.9 Amps at 240 volts. (This information can be found on the electrical label found on your lighting system's ballast unit). Therefore the energy used for the 400w HPS light for the different voltages is: 120v = 3.8 Amps x 120 volts = 456 watts 240v = 1.9 Amps x 240 volts = 456 watts While there is no energy savings associated with using 240 volts, there is an advantage for indoor gardens that are utilizing many lights. Basically you can operate twice the amount of lighting systems on a 240 volt circuit than you can on a 120 volt circuit.
thedarkknight
Member
actually there is very very slight savings on 240 because there are less amps going through the wires and less heat loss due to resistence, this heat is the savings. Of course you could go with a thicker guage, but that costs money too.
G
Guest
Morning Lugen and will do.
Hey thedarkknight, I'm planning on running one set of thick wires to a panel. The sub-panel with then feed into a 240 volt light control panel. Will be using only the best wire and gauge thickness. I'm now looking at a 10kW unit. Just to run my lights, so i can keep everything off the house power. The fuel consumption is pretty good for the size of the unit. Here's a link to the unit i'm now looking at. I was looking at a larger unit 21kW's, but money is a issue and the small unit will work fine for my setup.
Take care all,
BG
At $4113 dollars and a 2 year warranty. Plus, cosumption at
1/2 load .42 GPH
3/4 load .64 GPH
Full load .85 GPH
I don't think you can bet those numbers by much. I've looked around and this unit looks to be a good one. Nice price, size in kW's, and fuel consumption..
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/LMB10.asp?page=LMB10
Hey thedarkknight, I'm planning on running one set of thick wires to a panel. The sub-panel with then feed into a 240 volt light control panel. Will be using only the best wire and gauge thickness. I'm now looking at a 10kW unit. Just to run my lights, so i can keep everything off the house power. The fuel consumption is pretty good for the size of the unit. Here's a link to the unit i'm now looking at. I was looking at a larger unit 21kW's, but money is a issue and the small unit will work fine for my setup.
Take care all,
BG
At $4113 dollars and a 2 year warranty. Plus, cosumption at
1/2 load .42 GPH
3/4 load .64 GPH
Full load .85 GPH
I don't think you can bet those numbers by much. I've looked around and this unit looks to be a good one. Nice price, size in kW's, and fuel consumption..
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/LMB10.asp?page=LMB10
You're better off running at 240v for the simple fact you can run more lights with the available amperage.
Example: House 100amp main panel = 2 X 40amps = 16 lights @240v (4,25amps each)
House 100amp main panel = 2.x 40amps = 8 lights @ 110v. (9.5amps each)
Add flip flops and you got your self a set up!!
Example: House 100amp main panel = 2 X 40amps = 16 lights @240v (4,25amps each)
House 100amp main panel = 2.x 40amps = 8 lights @ 110v. (9.5amps each)
Add flip flops and you got your self a set up!!
That consumption is good! So figure 1gph at full load, I hope you plan on running flip flops, so you can basically run 16 lights off it, with the gen running 24/7. 8 ballasts at a time on a flip flop, or if you're anal about wearing down your ballasts just use 16 ballasts, with a timer that will flip the power over to the other 8 ballasts every 12hrs.
So 24hrs X 1gph = 24gals/day X $3/gallon (Dont know current prices) = $72/day in diesel?
I think my numbers are going to be off...but worst case senario you spend $80/day in diesel with a 56day strain = $4500 in diesel per crop of 16 lights.
So 24hrs X 1gph = 24gals/day X $3/gallon (Dont know current prices) = $72/day in diesel?
I think my numbers are going to be off...but worst case senario you spend $80/day in diesel with a 56day strain = $4500 in diesel per crop of 16 lights.
G
Guest
I'm looking into the flip flop units also. I'll be buying untaxed farm fuel. The only difference is it has a color dye in it and it's not for road use. Since there isn't a road tax when sold. It's running about $2-2.30 bucks around here. I'm going to look into a source for Biodiesel also. I know it not going to save the world, but it's alot better one particle output. Plus, i might be able to find someone locally that makes it and buy it for a cheaper cost. Thanks for your info. Nice to see this thread still moving along. I don't know the number of lights just yet, because waiting to see how large of a place i end up with. Looking to buy a house with some large, but i know i'll be running atleast 4 600HPS off the start, then add more as i go along. Fuel cost should be low at first. Let's hope i can find someone that is willing to sell some Biofuel at a fair market price. If not, farm fuel is fine with me.
Take care,
BG
Take care,
BG
GoldDustWomen said:
Ok, I think I may need to beat you about the head.
I was really hoping for you to get the old 21k. Maybe some math will help.Isuzu 21k genset. $6500.
Consumption at 1/2 load 0.58 gallons/hour
Consumption at 3/4 load 0.79 gallons/hour
Consumption at full load 1.01 gallons/hour
so right off the bat, .85 gph (10k genset full load) - .58 (21k genset 1/2 load) = .27 gallons per hour in savings by going with the 21k genset.
or if we remember my efficiency rating from page 3 of this thread we come up with this. lower is better.
isuzu 21k @ half load - .058 gpkwh
10k genset @ full load - .085 gpkwh
GPKWH = gallons per kilowatt hour = fuel consumption / power output
Now if we multiply the above numbers by the current diesel price we can get the cost per kwh. I am going to use the top of your price range at $2.30 per gallon since prices are doing nothing but going up.
.085 * $2.30 = 19.55 cents per kwh for the 10k genset
.058 * $2.30 = 13.34 cents per kwh for the isuzu 21k @ half load
So at current pricing you will save 6.21 cents per kwh or 62.1 cents for every hour of genset use at 10k power output. when those diesel prices go over $3 a gallon you will be saving about a dollar every hour.
ok, now lets see how long it will take for these savings to be realized with the extra initial cost of the 21k generator. the 21k is $6500 and the 10k in question you say is $4113. So the 21k is $2387 extra initially and we are saving 62.1 cents every hour compared to the 10k.
$2387 / $0.621 = 3843.8 hours = 160.16 days = break even point
This is assuming you run the gensets for 24 hours a day at 10k load and $2.30 per gallon.
So after the first year of continuous use at 10k, the Izusu 21k genset has saved you $5439.96 in fuel costs. Minus the initial extra cost of $2387, you have still saved $3052.96 in the first year as compared to the 10k genset. You also have a better generator that can put out 20 KWH of power when you need it. The unit is even more efficient at full load with a rating of .0505 gpkwh.
Did anyone make it through that?
G
Guest
billbob, it's going to be fun for sure. Ive already got all the lights picked out and controlling unit. Should be pretty easy, but not cheap
Take care,
BG
Pico, I hear you and got you. I'm just trying to cut some corner's. Since i'm going to be spending alittle bit of money on a new place. I'll most like still go with that Isuzu, but they are listing it as a 20kW once you click on it. Still, 5 years on parts and labor and free shipping. Not a bad deal at all, but the unit set up is going to run $6930. That is with the through wall fitting and a lift gate service to get the unit out of truck. I'll have to see where my money is at the time of buying my house, but i want the enclosure also. If i can't afford it at the time. I'll just frame a roon up and sound proof it. The only thing i got to make sure to setup. Is a trigger that will fire up the generator in the moring and let it run for about 15 mins before lights come on. I'll have a timer that will kick on the allow the feed from the generator to then feed the control panel. This is something i need to sit down and draw out. I only want to run the generator for flowering to save on fuel cost. Keeping mother plants and cloning won't cost anything and will be feed off house power. Any ways, got a good idea in my head. Just got to draw it out so i got the plan all set.
Thanks,
BG
Take care,
BG
Pico, I hear you and got you. I'm just trying to cut some corner's. Since i'm going to be spending alittle bit of money on a new place. I'll most like still go with that Isuzu, but they are listing it as a 20kW once you click on it. Still, 5 years on parts and labor and free shipping. Not a bad deal at all, but the unit set up is going to run $6930. That is with the through wall fitting and a lift gate service to get the unit out of truck. I'll have to see where my money is at the time of buying my house, but i want the enclosure also. If i can't afford it at the time. I'll just frame a roon up and sound proof it. The only thing i got to make sure to setup. Is a trigger that will fire up the generator in the moring and let it run for about 15 mins before lights come on. I'll have a timer that will kick on the allow the feed from the generator to then feed the control panel. This is something i need to sit down and draw out. I only want to run the generator for flowering to save on fuel cost. Keeping mother plants and cloning won't cost anything and will be feed off house power. Any ways, got a good idea in my head. Just got to draw it out so i got the plan all set.
Thanks,
BG
i am from england so cant really say much about your genny and fuel situation , but i got in touch with a few genny dealers and asked about programmable timed start/stop features . i told them a story about building a holiday home abroad in the mountains and said it would need to start and stop under load on its own for indefinate periods of time . i eventually found someone who was willing and able to adapt the electrics for 200 GBP but have yet to adapt the fuel feed to a big ass tank . as yet though i havent tried it as it is a bitch to move , i am trying to get it into a cellar and am currently widening dooreways and trying to manouvre it on a trolley jack .
i intend on running 24 600 aircooled supernovas with digital ballasts , my fans and maybe aircon . i have only got half of the light equipment at the moment as even 12 lights is doubling my biggest grow to date .
keep the info coming
skin
i intend on running 24 600 aircooled supernovas with digital ballasts , my fans and maybe aircon . i have only got half of the light equipment at the moment as even 12 lights is doubling my biggest grow to date .
keep the info coming
skin
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G
Guest
Hello Skin, and welcome to IC. Glad to have you aboard. Sounds like a nice setup your planning and i hope you share some pictures of your setup when the time comes. If you don't want to. I totally understand and it's no biggy. The unit your talking about is a large one. I can bet it's hard to get in place. I'm planning on building a garage around mine and sound proof it. I'll also feed off a 275 or 550 gallon fuel tank. I haven't made up my mind, but might go with the 550 gallon one. Just got to check local laws first. I want to place mine in the ground, but i don't want any problems. As for my setup i'm thinking about. I think i've got it figured out. They sell timer units that will start my unit up in the morning. Say at 6:45 and run for about 15 minutes to get up to temp. Then i will have a light control panel with a timer trigger. That at 7:00 am. Will open or feed the ballast the power from the generator. Once it gets to 7:00 pm. Light will go out with the normal timer and about 7:15 pm the generator will turn off. The generator will follow this cycle every day. unless i go with a flip flop system and run the generator at half load and run the unit 24/7. I don't know what i might do, but i do know. I don't like lights on at night. Well, please feel free to share any ideas or post any problems you got. I'm sure everyone will enjoy or help out in any way.
Take care and Welcome,
BG
Take care and Welcome,
BG
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