Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[blackosprey]

While I understand that this is a controversial topic, it's kind of a shame that it can't be kept civil. How about starting a "Defoliation-why it doesn't work" thread. Or maybe put it in the side by side experiments section.
This is my first grow in a very small area, so I have to deploy a defoliation technique. So far, combined with continuous lst, I am happy with here things are going. While I may not be following this "method" to the letter, I am finding much information here to help me along the way. I have been trimming leaves once a week since 2 weeks before 12/12, and I can definitely see positives in keeping the leaves trimmed, if for no reason more than light penetration.
Thanks for the information and guidance through this thread. For the detractors, nay sayers, and know it alls, please keep it civil for those of us here to learn.

 

[mattkilla420]

new grower. stretch?

new grower. stretch?

New grower here. I asked some advice few pages back before all the shananingans started. Anyways this is my first grow and i only defoiled one of my four plants in veg before the flip. I am in day 14 of flower and i think im gonna pluck the defoiled one and possibly the other after stretch. When is that? Im growing SSH , WW and a bagseed plant. The SSH seems like it will just grow into the light if i let it. But i was told she would be quite a stretcher. I they still seem be growing 1/2 in or so day.. What is evident thing i should look for when stretch is over. The one on the right is the defoiled one.
p.s. i have not pulled or trimmed one yellow leaf from any of my plants.. I'd say there pretty healthy for a first time grow.

 

[the gnome]

If this mess doesn't calm down there's no need to leave it open.....

hate to see that jj and seems a bit on the unfair side,
this is one of the better threads imo of course
and it has way more usefull value open.

perhaps the better option is to *defoliate* the few leaves that are the source of the problem

What is evident thing i should look for when stretch is over.

well, when you see the plant stop stretching matt
its a strain dependant thing so your having several varieties will mean differing times of when stretch stops.
and the amount you'll get.
your SSH and other heavy sat influenced strains
usually stretch the most.

btw
they are looking good my friend!

its a pain growing differing strains
you have to keep adjusting your lite height and plants around it.
I'm wrapping up a 24 plant grow from seed W/6 strains and its been a big PITA!
I'm so glad I'll be runnning mostly clones next run

 

[BrnCow]

So. before you have to close the thread, has ANYONE found any profit to thinning out the leaves ? I mean like better bud in the center of the plant or better harvest weights?

 

[TommyTwoColas]

Yes and yes.

 

[the gnome]

Yes and yes.

the fact is buds buried under leaves just cannot get the lite the upper parts can.

plants are meant to survive and they will adapt genetically over time to thier surroundings to make the most
of what they have to work with.
just like people, animals and insects.
canabis has evolved over thousands of years to their particular environs from the hot-n-moist lowland columbia jungles
where the famous punta roja *redbed* originated
to the indica hash plants of the lofty hi altitude arid ranges of the Hundu Kush.
BUT!
they all have 2 things in common no matter where they grow and thats the sun/a light source that is constantly moving
AND
the genetic ability to adapt to the conditions under which they grow.

over time their leaves are set in a way to maximize the light they recieve as their lite source tracks across from east to west.
no matter where the sun is at the leaves on some portion of the plant will always recieve direct sunlight throughout the day if not all day long for other parts of the plant.
NOW!
we put them inside with a stationary point of lite(s)
so in order to mimic ideal the natural settings we either have to move the lite source or constantly shuffle plants around,
and how many times have you have had to do that
they don't need shuffling around outside because the sun is moving

so now the lite source being stationary creates a prob in regards to dead spots under the canopy of the upper leaves.
removing those leaves just opens up the lite the sun would have gotten to in a natural setting.

plants have redundant back ups for survival in less than ideal situations.
like producing thousands of seeds to insure the survival of the species!
OR
maybe lots of leaves around the plant in a way as to take optimal advantage of the sun as it tracks across the sky.
think about if we had only a stationary sun.
how and would the leaf structure of canabis plants evolved differently?
I'm sure it would have

removing leaves to adapt and take full advantage of a stationary lite source hasn't slowed the plant down or harm it in any way in my exp. with the strains ive dealt with.
AND.... actually a good trimming benefits the plant as you'll notice a week or 2 after a good defoliating.
IN FACT...
trimming/defoliating is an accepted practice by gardeners and botanists/horticulturists and landscapers to improve many plants and in many ways relating to health and vigor....
to increased productivity,
and cosmetic appeal.

but there are still many that think it couldn't/can't/doesn't/won't work on a plant like canabis?
it is a very adaptable, hardy plant

***of course not all strains may benefit from a good defo and some are best left alone to do their thing***
as I think about it,
we do everything we can to tweak the most from our plants,
from the bulbs
to soils,
nutes, amendments,
additives,
air/Co2... even classical music!
you name it we growers are trying it or have done it or trying to make it batter! right?
Its a constant endeavor on our parts
but to those that haven't tried and won't even consider defoliating is akin to
cutting off your nose to spite your face imo.
personally Ive never seen a plant of mine that suffered any ill effects from trimming,
they always do better!


but again,
genetics/strain plays the ultimate role if defoliating is a benefit or detriment

 

[Infinitesimal]

IMPORTANT Rant:

One thing I've learned and everyone trying this out for the first few times should be aware of: SAtivas Sativas Sativas, they're finicky with this. one thing they already have a pretty open structure. but majorly the issue has to due with the fact they evolved around the equator so they are used to extreme light levels and have adapted accordingly by possessing lower chlorophyll levels in their leaves than Indicas, hence their light color. so in northern latitudes or under HID lights they need those leaves in order to sustain high levels of photosynthesis. So picking leaves vigorously on a Sativa outside of its native land of origin, can leave your plants "gasping for air" so to speak.

As where Indicas on the other hand evolved in environments of much lower solar radiation than did Sativas. So in order to absorb enough light for photo synthesis Indica had to evolve plants with many more fat leaves, loaded with chlorophyl to the point of being dark green with much lower light requirements in order to photosynthesize many sugars for the plant... so it is much safer and easier to Defoliate Big Indica bushes.

And as far as the SOG green thing, Defol should still help, its just the returns will be diminished when compared to a big fat Vegger, but the SOG guys can turn crops much faster without a vegetative period. So it really depends on ones situation, plant limits Etc.

New grower here. I asked some advice few pages back before all the shananingans started. Anyways this is my first grow and i only defoiled one of my four plants in veg before the flip. I am in day 14 of flower and i think im gonna pluck the defoiled one and possibly the other after stretch. When is that? Im growing SSH , WW and a bagseed plant. The SSH seems like it will just grow into the light if i let it. But i was told she would be quite a stretcher. I they still seem be growing 1/2 in or so day.. What is evident thing i should look for when stretch is over. The one on the right is the defoiled one.[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36403&pictureid=881620&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36403&pictureid=881623&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
p.s. i have not pulled or trimmed one yellow leaf from any of my plants.. I'd say there pretty healthy for a first time grow.

you should have noticed that when you flipped to 12/12 your plants grew very vigorously, though some varieties will hardly continue to grow at all once they have been flipped, the amount of stretch is also dependent on the root restriction Ie. your container size, as well as other things

So when you notice these plants shoot up real fast after the flip , they are stretching (probably why you had a hard time keeping the SSH out of ur light, like said Sativa's stretch more) when you notice this grow explosion slow down usually 2-3 weeks after the flip they should start forming bud clusters and hardly grow any taller if at all.

And Im not sure when this hole wait till after stretch thing came into play, maybe I need to read the thread over again but i thought i remember K33f and everyone talking that its unnecessary, why do you want the plants to stretch anyways? especially indoor?

I've started the whole Defol process in the middle of stretch and never noticed any issues when you take the right leaves at the right time

So. before you have to close the thread, has ANYONE found any profit to thinning out the leaves ? I mean like better bud in the center of the plant or better harvest weights?

yes, and yes! you should have no "B" buds
check it!






^ I even started late on the whole Defoliation thing, but it didn't budge it and it filled in an blew up.


^this a Popcorn Nug on a well Defoliated plant, before I even trimmed it i literally just cut it off the plant that way. This is the most absolute lowest; in the middle of the plant, under everything else, branch and was hanging right above the soil line

sorry it took a lil while for the response, I had to upload some old pics.

Hope this helps guys!

P.S. Oh and by the way that little 2 1/2 foot tall outdoor plant yielded over 1&1/2 lbs. the next year i did the same cutting didn't have time to bend and defol and i got maybe half that including all of the "B" buds, so thats that at least

peace,
Infi

 

[Dickkhead]

so defoliate at day 21 of veg and then every 2 weeks after that?

 

[yesum]

I defoliate after stretch is done in flowering. Just enough to give bud sites light and some more if needed for air flow and crowding. If you do it right before flowering the plants might stall and not stretch.

 

[Dickkhead]

ok but if you havnt done it in veg isnt it a bad idea to do it in flowering?

 

[Infinitesimal]

hey Dkhead,
mostly not, unless you have a plant that doesn't respond favorably to defoliation and is usually something pretty heavy on the Sativa side.

later man,
peace
Infi

 

[paperchaser825]

16 days into veg from a seed.

Just did the first round of defoliation on two of four plants.

Before shot (The one to the left of the diamond and the one at the top of the diamond):

After (First pic is the big one at the top, second pic is the one on the left):

Amidoinitrite?

 

[Infinitesimal]

thats a little early and a little extreme but if it doesn't hurt them to bad then theres nothing to worry bout, it should be fine

 

[paperchaser825]

thats a little early and a little extreme but if it doesn't hurt them to bad then theres nothing to worry bout, it should be fine

So when during veg from a seed am I looking to being defoliating under optimal conditions?

And also should I have maybe just removed one set at a time instead of all the fan leaves at once?

The large one appears to be doing well, it had a LOT of foliage under the fan leaves, the other not so much but it doesn't look like I am stressing them too much.

 

[Terramoto]

I guess you only remove them when they're shading the nodes or you'll end up slowing plant's growth.

 

[paperchaser825]

I guess you only remove them when they're shading the nodes or you'll end up slowing plant's growth.

Well then it seems I did the big one right and should have waited on the smaller one to node up a little harder. The big one had a lot of growth on all the nodes though.

 

[Infinitesimal]

So when during veg from a seed am I looking to being defoliating under optimal conditions?

yes when possibles, and ideally a little older if from seed

also should I have maybe just removed one set at a time instead of all the fan leaves at once?

The large one appears to be doing well, it had a LOT of foliage under the fan leaves, the other not so much but it doesn't look like I am stressing them too much.

yeah definitely its better to remove the fans in a process over time instead of all at once.

yeah the larger one had enough foliage underneath to support the plants after all the fan leaves are removed but the smaller one could have been stripped a lil later and more slowly, you'll soon get the hang of it. Its really not that hard i think many over think it.

good luck,
peace
Infi

 

[DeftoneSmoker]

I will for ever use this technique!!! My results are outstanding

 

[kal el]

I prefer to start picking off the leaves after the plants get flipped to flower.

 

[Nondual]

I prefer to start picking off the leaves after the plants get flipped to flower.

Hey I'll second that