Colorado Growers Thread

[Avinash.miles]

That's what I read.

Lol I was saying I don't think its a bad idea. I've known people who ran swamp coolers and still needed humidifiers here in co.

l

swamp coolers run in non sealed rooms, depend upon lots of air exchange, so even with added humidity from the evap you are pushing that much air OUT of the room at the same time, exchanging the air.


generally the go to options for cooling rooms (vented OR unvented lites) are either AC (cool DRY air which counteracts the sometimes overly humid conditions of sealed rooms) or air exchange, sometimes aided by swamp coolers (cool wet air).

in DJM's old thread he ran unvented parabolics,
post a link to the DJM thread ur talking about please, jake

 

[Dready_jake]

Not a problem. Its a great read. He's been slowly changing and dialing in his system over the years. He Switched from rockwool to coco. This guy is fun to read.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

 

[Avinash.miles]

Not a problem. Its a great read. He's been slowly changing and dialing in his system over the years. He Switched from rockwool to coco. This guy is fun to read.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

edit: i found it; DJM killing it in what he calls a "sealed room", but with intake and exhaust fans. pulling in cool dry fresh air to bring down high temps and (when plants are big) high humidity

...im a firm believer in VPD, its a game changer in any room..i wont try to convince people on it, so please no one come in and try to tell me im crazy, as I assure you this is not my first rodeo...I run 84f and 75% rh through the whole grow, 70f- 74f and 65-70% at night...its hot and wet..glasses fog up when you enter...only the last week of flush will I drop it to 75f and 65rh ...during veg I run it even higher around 86-88 and 80%rh

I don't use a fogger, nor a dehumidifier. I use the mass of vegetation in the room to create the humidity. I also don't run ac. 1 - 10 inch can fan is hooked to the ducting between the lights with slits every 2 feet and I pull in outside air to cool the room.in summer I use 3 fans instead of 1 and run my lights at night. The room is sealed but I have an exhaust fan for night time or if rh goes above 75 during lights on , which it never does . I'm in Colorado and it's very dry out here, so bringing in the outside air dries the room out during lights on and the exhaust does the same during lights out . And even in summer night temps are in the 50s. I have a controller with intake , exhaust fans , heater and co2 burner hooked to it. I have the settings tweaked to meet the levels I aim for. I try to use the elements outside and inside to work for me and keep operating costs down

thread link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255&page=3

his room design is very typical in CO, it's actually what I do (minus the c02 burner), and it depends upon you really FILLING your room full up with plants so that the plants create their own environment and raise that humidity (imo it's still not quite enough, DJM says he gets his up to 75% i think mine is up around 40% tops, but mine aint sealed up as tight). STILL he uses environmental controls (DJM says he uses a "controller with intake, exhaust, heater and co2 burner on it) are used to dial the environment of the room. It's impressive that DJM can regulate temp and humidity only with a fresh air intake (active, sometimes with 1 x 10" fan sometimes with 3 fans). He dumps the air at night to remove excess humidity during lites out (and any excess ethelyne gas from c02 burner).
My room has 2x 8" air intakes and 2x air exhaust, sounds like Don Juan is at a higher altitude than many growers (certianly me) and has the luxury of slightly lower temperatures for cooling the room and keeping veg temps lower.

bottom line is that in a round about way DJM is cooling his room AND regulating humidity using air exchange, bringing cool air in when lites are on (and intake air is preferably cool, like nitetime) and dumping humid air at nite with exhaust fans. He is not using air circulation to regulate his humidity, instead air EXCHANGE. that's not to say he isnt circulating the air but that is somewhat separate from the environmental controls he describes in the quotes i posted above.

in my room if i ran ONLY intake (and turned off exhausts during lites on), i think i would still run into high heat problems, perhaps because my intake air is not quite cool enough (just like in many parts of the state like front range and elevations under 8500).
my air exhausts are located near the ceilings (10 feet tall) and suck hot air off at about the same level as the open (unvented) hoods.

 

[Seaf0ur]

 

[Riddleme]

So you know it all and couldn't be slightly off on anything? Sorry I know now and won't dare question anyone again.

Its a versatile weed and can grow in any conditions but were discussing the best environment and best ranges right now.

People have been growing for years and getting great results, but as soon as they implement the vpd chart their mind is blown. Fast explosive growth, higher yields cuz the plants transpire less leading to energy focused on growth and bud production. Its not magic its agriculture. Which is where this chart comes from. I didn't make it. An agricultural scientist did.

And yes barnyard as i stated before if You did your job right(designing the room) then you will have planned out and have all these factors in check from the get go.

Nope, don't know it all, but do know a bit

VPD chart is good for growers in a sealed room, but my room is not sealed and I'm growing 18 inch colas (week 6) with T5's

and I say question everything but never ignore something because you think you already know the answer?

 

[Avinash.miles]

wtf? lol

 

[Riddleme]

wtf? lol

even more mind blowin info in my sig link LOL

a whole bunch of WTF's

 

[Avinash.miles]

even more mind blowin info in my sig link LOL

a whole bunch of WTF's

the yhea that, wtf, lol was for c4s picture about chainmail... will check out your sig.links...

 

[Dready_jake]

edit: i found it; DJM killing it in what he calls a "sealed room", but with intake and exhaust fans. pulling in cool dry fresh air to bring down high temps and (when plants are big) high humidity



thread link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255&page=3

his room design is very typical in CO, it's actually what I do (minus the c02 burner), and it depends upon you really FILLING your room full up with plants so that the plants create their own environment and raise that humidity (imo it's still not quite enough, DJM says he gets his up to 75% i think mine is up around 40% tops, but mine aint sealed up as tight). STILL he uses environmental controls (DJM says he uses a "controller with intake, exhaust, heater and co2 burner on it) are used to dial the environment of the room. It's impressive that DJM can regulate temp and humidity only with a fresh air intake (active, sometimes with 1 x 10" fan sometimes with 3 fans). He dumps the air at night to remove excess humidity during lites out (and any excess ethelyne gas from c02 burner).
My room has 2x 8" air intakes and 2x air exhaust, sounds like Don Juan is at a higher altitude than many growers (certianly me) and has the luxury of slightly lower temperatures for cooling the room and keeping veg temps lower.

bottom line is that in a round about way DJM is cooling his room AND regulating humidity using air exchange, bringing cool air in when lites are on (and intake air is preferably cool, like nitetime) and dumping humid air at nite with exhaust fans. He is not using air circulation to regulate his humidity, instead air EXCHANGE. that's not to say he isnt circulating the air but that is somewhat separate from the environmental controls he describes in the quotes i posted above.

in my room if i ran ONLY intake (and turned off exhausts during lites on), i think i would still run into high heat problems, perhaps because my intake air is not quite cool enough (just like in many parts of the state like front range and elevations under 8500).
my air exhausts are located near the ceilings (10 feet tall) and suck hot air off at about the same level as the open (unvented) hoods.

I figured I missed a few things in his setup buti did say sealed or near sealed lol

And all I really said was he didn't run ac, humidifiers, de humidifiers,, swamp coolers or anything like that. I never said he didn't climate control. Lol

 

[Dready_jake]

Nope, don't know it all, but do know a bit

VPD chart is good for growers in a sealed room, but my room is not sealed and I'm growing 18 inch colas (week 6) with T5's

and I say question everything but never ignore something because you think you already know the answer?

That's what I did I questioned you when you thought you already knew the answer.

And riddle me this. Why would the same plant prefer a lower rh% in a non sealed room like mine and yours and prefer a higher rh% in a sealed room. That doesn't make any sense. The VPD chart is for agricultural green house environments. Not just sealed pot growing rooms lol

 

[Seaf0ur]

the yhea that, wtf, lol was for c4s picture about chainmail... will check out your sig.links...

it apparently did not make up for its lack of deflection with distraction....

 

[Avinash.miles]

ok, here goes:

peeps like djm & ghetto grow are killing it in sealed rooms, for sure, but they aren't depending on air circulation to lower rh really. iirc they are using all kinds of environmental crontollery (dehuey/huey/ac, which blows cold DRY air)
fans on the floor only dry the floor, they actually are putting the humidity into the air and thus RAISING not lowering humidity.

Its going on this long. Its been conplwtely civil.
true, ty for that

Djm does no such things. He controls humidity with the plants only. And relies solely on air circulation.
incorrect, he uses, air EXCHANGE

so you're telling me....
djm runs NO ac, NO dehuey or huey? and has NO air exchange?

I figured I missed a few things in his setup buti did say sealed or near sealed lol

And all I really said was he didn't run ac, humidifiers, de humidifiers,, swamp coolers or anything like that. I never said he didn't climate control. Lol

simply the difference between circulation and exchange, not about using climate control or not, but HOW & WHAT each grower uses to control that climate.

just want to point out (again) that air circulation really wasn't/isn't at all what is being employed to control the climate / regulate the environment (temp & humidity at least) in DonJuan's room, how you previously sad that he WAS SOLELY using circulatory fans to cool the room and deal with high humidity, when in the quotes below DJM describes his climate control techniques and nowhere in it does he mention his circulation fans that are clearly visible in the pictures of his room.

...im a firm believer in VPD, its a game changer in any room..i wont try to convince people on it, so please no one come in and try to tell me im crazy, as I assure you this is not my first rodeo...I run 84f and 75% rh through the whole grow, 70f- 74f and 65-70% at night...its hot and wet..glasses fog up when you enter...only the last week of flush will I drop it to 75f and 65rh ...during veg I run it even higher around 86-88 and 80%rh

I don't use a fogger, nor a dehumidifier. I use the mass of vegetation in the room to create the humidity. I also don't run ac. 1 - 10 inch can fan is hooked to the ducting between the lights with slits every 2 feet and I pull in outside air to cool the room.in summer I use 3 fans instead of 1 and run my lights at night. The room is sealed but I have an exhaust fan for night time or if rh goes above 75 during lights on , which it never does . I'm in Colorado and it's very dry out here, so bringing in the outside air dries the room out during lights on and the exhaust does the same during lights out . And even in summer night temps are in the 50s. I have a controller with intake , exhaust fans , heater and co2 burner hooked to it. I have the settings tweaked to meet the levels I aim for. I try to use the elements outside and inside to work for me and keep operating costs down

not trying to argue the vpd chart, more just point out HOW growers arrive at those levels of humidity and temperature, to achieve a fuller understanding of how to layout a growroom.... dont expect to seal the room up, blast unvented lites and cool the room or lower RH with circulation fans alone (that's why DJM uses controller to fluctuate air exchange).

we're talking humidity and moving air around that has 98% humidity still has 98% humidity...

that's the point, circulation won't save u from high humidity, DJM's room proves that, he dumps humid air when lites out and remplaces humid air in lites on. does not solely rely on circulation fans to control humidity or temps, rather uses air exchange to control both.

it apparently did not make up for its lack of deflection with distraction....

distracted for sure

 

[Dready_jake]

Fans will save from high humidity issues.it won't change 90% to 70% but it can prevent that 90% from being stagnant and causing a detrimental issue. He dumps at night to lower the humidity to coincide with the dropping temp of no lights. He does that to follow the VPD chart for night temps. He also said he has a controller for the fans set to come on at night and if the humidity get too high which it doesn't.

True I wasn't meaning to argue the fans as the only climate control I missed that detail of your post but what I was meaning is he can run a high rh% because he has so many fans/ air circulation. And if he had less air movement a high humidity might be detrimental.

I meant he uses fans solely to move the already wet air around and prevent stagnation which would cause issues. Not that he controls the climate with the circulation fans.

I was pointing out the relation ship between VPD and air circulation w/o much air exchange but even in high exchange situations like ours why would less circulation be better? But I did miss the point that djm does a slow air exchange at night.

Its been long and intensive but I think were all at a point we can agree on.
And that is that "high humidity" isn't as low is we all previously thought(>75%). And that air movement/circulation is more important than exchange because air exchange doesn't move leafs.

 

[Guest]

A few weeks ago I posted a couple of seedling pics that had shown up unexpected in my basement window well where I sometimes wash out trays and pots with dirt and a few seeds made an appearance. Just for kicks I decided to let them go ahead for my first outdoors grow. They were PCK x Cherry Bomb, a cross that I think will be pretty nice with the PCK taming the CB stretch a bit maybe. These seedlings I left own there own and they survived extreme low temps, flood rains and hail. They had just started to really take off and took pictures yesterday to post progress today and had what looked like a crime scene waiting for me. Damned VOLE!!!! The little bastard had dived into the window well and surviving the fall, then set about eating my plants except for a few leaves. Can't imagine how this tiny creature could eat so much, but I guess he died happy.

This is why I'm an indoor grower.

 

[Seaf0ur]

seems like a lot of failure points in a setup like that... I dont like charts in general... charts are guidelines, not laws... often I spray my walls in veg to make up for the low rh but different strains have different needs...

 

[Jhhnn]

the whole conversation started with this question, which NOONE has answered yet....

I'm curious of the same, i have access to a big new swamp cooler, i run my unvented lites at nite with little to no ac just TONS of air exchange; and still could use to lower temps a bit (especially NOW going into summer and a new round in my room).
SO i'm wondering the same, does anyone use evap coolers or "swamp coolers" instead of AC, especially in larger spaces like 2/3 car garage or full basement sized roms??? IF i did this i would still run a few exhaust fans in the room, because evap coolers NEED exhausts open, when u run them in the home you have to open door and windows to push the hot air OUT. (once again, we are now talking about air EXCHANGE not circulation, which i feel like i have plenty of in my room).

We run a big evap cooler on the whole house, Miles, and a 24" whole house fan pushing out thru the attic vents. The air for my small grow comes from inside the house. In summer, the heat from the light (2 stage cooling) gets pushed outside with a 6" S&P fan. The enclosure itself vents into the cellar & crawl space thru another fan & carbon filter. It's a lung room w/ air constantly replenished by the flow from the cooler thru the light & outdoors.

As you say, the cellar is somewhat more humid because of transpiration from the plants, even w/ constant displacement outdoors.

Properly installed, Evap coolers will reduce air intake temp by 10-15 F in a dry climate like CO. Effectiveness falls off as RH increases, of course. Useless in a rainstorm. I don't know exactly how much they raise the humidity but it's considerable. Right now, it's 91 outside & the RH is 25%. At my desk, it's 80 & the RH is 50%. In the cellar, it's 78 & the RH is 60%.

Figure you can reduce the temp in the grow by 10 F & raise the humidity by 25 points, if that's any indication. With night time lows in your neck of the woods falling to the mid 60's, air from the cooler will be in the low 50's, something to consider.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I was pointing out the relation ship between VPD and air circulation w/o much air exchange but even in high exchange situations like ours why would less circulation be better? But I did miss the point that djm does a slow air exchange at night.
wind burn?
the point is that the "slow" exchange at nite is dumping humidity, the circulations fans may slightly mitigate high humidity issues, but will not cure them at all, thus the night-time dump or "exchange" is neccesary


Its been long and intensive but I think were all at a point we can agree on.
And that is that "high humidity" isn't as low is we all previously thought(>75%). And that air movement/circulation is more important than exchange because air exchange doesn't move leafs.

yhea, 75% would be great, i think many would feel safer a lil lower (10-15% even), also DJM is running CO2 so he enjoys benefits at slightly higher temps (and therefore humidity levels) when running co2 enrichment.


Colorado is a somewhat extreme environment to grow in.... i imagine that DJM's rooms have lots of positive air pressure, even being sealed, then with a 10" fan (or 3 fans) pulling air in and NOTHING simulataneously dumping air out of the room. my rooms generally run with negative air presssure.... something to think about there.

 

[Jhhnn]

A few weeks ago I posted a couple of seedling pics that had shown up unexpected in my basement window well where I sometimes wash out trays and pots with dirt and a few seeds made an appearance. Just for kicks I decided to let them go ahead for my first outdoors grow. They were PCK x Cherry Bomb, a cross that I think will be pretty nice with the PCK taming the CB stretch a bit maybe. These seedlings I left own there own and they survived extreme low temps, flood rains and hail. They had just started to really take off and took pictures yesterday to post progress today and had what looked like a crime scene waiting for me. Damned VOLE!!!! The little bastard had dived into the window well and surviving the fall, then set about eating my plants except for a few leaves. Can't imagine how this tiny creature could eat so much, but I guess he died happy.

This is why I'm an indoor grower.

View Image

View Image

Little critters have very high metabolisms & he just munched what little he could get. Might have died of thirst- hard to say. Out in the garden, he'd have been munching other stuff.

I'd love to just grow seasonally outdoors- giant bushes! It's out of the question where we live, here in the heart of the city.

 

[Dready_jake]

yhea, 75% would be great, i think many would feel safer a lil lower (10-15% even), also DJM is running CO2 so he enjoys benefits at slightly higher temps (and therefore humidity levels) when running co2 enrichment

But that's exactly what the chart says. He has temps of 84° coinciding with a 75%rh. for me at a max of about 75°-78° typically would shoot for 65-70% max. If you have a cooler room at 70° you wouldn't want more than 65%.

Colorado is a somewhat extreme environment to grow in.... i imagine that DJM's rooms have lots of positive air pressure, even being sealed, then with a 10" fan (or 3 fans) pulling air in and NOTHING simulataneously dumping air out of the room. my rooms generally run with negative air presssure.... something to think about there.

That it is. I run negative too and a humidifier in my apt as like a lung room but couldnt get higher than 50-55% consistently but the plants didn't really fill the room out like I'd expected either. But my first grow here in my Colorado apt had a humidity of like 30% so, progress. Lol. the plants loved the increased humidity but I could tell they wanted even more.thanks for the fun scholarly debate!

 

[Avinash.miles]

on another note: please cruise over to the yogurt ccup challenge, read last several pages OR entire thread and vote on a winner.