Colorado Growers Thread

[barnyard]

some humidty info...

some humidty info...

Besides. How much do you think is too much?

"In the flowering stage, when possible, humidity should be kept below 45% to prevent mold and increase resin production."

this is interesting, "it's especially common for young cannabis plants to show false signs of nutrient deficiencies when the relative humidity of the grow area drops below the optimal range, especially when things get really dry."

from: http://www.growweedeasy.com/7-step-remedy

on a separate note, support our veterans!

 

[Dready_jake]

That page was chock full of misnomers and misinfo.
Those recommendations are false or for poor air movement situations at best.

Here is a REAL horticultural tool.

If you're having mold/mildew issues its poor room design or poor air movement. NOT the humidity.

 

[barnyard]

I guess the problem is when the air is holding too much moisture. But good ventilation is essential that's for certain.I'm always amazed at the increased trichome production for plants placed directly under the fans.

 

[Dready_jake]

Stagnant air is the issue. Not enough fans. Air exchange can be good and youll still have issues. Air movement is different than exchange and more important. As the guys running sealed rooms show. (Djm)

 

[barnyard]

we're talking humidity and moving air around that has 98% humidity still has 98% humidity...

 

[Dready_jake]

OK yes but the more you move air the more it loses moisture.

Here we are again talking about POORLY DESIGNED ROOMS. if you did YOUR job right, you designed a room that won't hit 98%rh.

When did it become 98% anyway you said 45% was too high in flower and i presented evidence it wasn't. Then you changed it to 98%.

If you have a well designed room it wouldn't hit 98% but if you designed it properly hitting 98% would mean it rains in the grow but no real negative effect. It's if the air/moisture becomes stagnant that you have a problem.

 

[barnyard]

no, simply moving air around does not cause a decrease in humidity...a fan hitting the air can actually increase air temp which can increase humidity...also if the air is passed over wet surfaces humidity can also increase...the 98% humidity is just an example.

 

[Avinash.miles]

imo air exchange is far more important than circulation... exchange will lower RH (especially in CO where ambient rH is SUPER LOW). Air circulation will dry up puddles on the floor, but I don't think that it will dry out the air simply by blowing it around the room... at least that hasn't been my experience. IMO air exchange is KEY. DHF's old motto was exchange the air in your room once every 2 minutes. IF you do that (even exchange every 5 minutes) you will be FINE (assuming you are in Colorado). IF you have too little air exchange, but plenty of circulation.... can't promise that will solve the problem at all, ime circulation helps temps equalize around the room, prevents hot & cool spots in the room.

happy solstice mothafukas!!!

 

[Dready_jake]

imo air exchange is far more important than circulation... exchange will lower RH (especially in CO where ambient rH is SUPER LOW). Air circulation will dry up puddles on the floor, but I don't think that it will dry out the air simply by blowing it around the room... at least that hasn't been my experience. IMO air exchange is KEY. DHF's old motto was exchange the air in your room once every 2 minutes. IF you do that (even exchange every 5 minutes) you will be FINE (assuming you are in Colorado). IF you have too little air exchange, but plenty of circulation.... can't promise that will solve the problem at all, ime circulation helps temps equalize around the room, prevents hot & cool spots in the room.

happy solstice mothafukas!!!

OK but what about sealed rooms where there is little to no air exchange? Guys like djm are killing it and have no exchange.
and why do people put fans to dry floors sometimes if moving the air doesn't dry things somewhat.
(Second example isnt great but the first one djm is solid)

I've seen people all the time with relatively low humidity 45%, and they say the ones by the fan are showing signs of wind stress. BUT IN REALITY, what the plant is showing is humidity stress because if the rh% was proper (see graph above) there is NO SUCH THING as wind stress.

The reason the plants BY the fan were the only ones showing stress was because the air wasn't moving around the room properly so the fan dried this section of air while the transpiration of the rest of the plants kept those from stresssing

Had the humidity been higher there might be an issue cuz you can tell the air movement is subpar. BUT if the humidity was higher the plants by the fan would be perfectly happy. But like I said you need lots of fans. If all the leafs aren't moving there's a chance for issues. It's not humidity.

 

[Riddleme]

For best growing, use the heat index, adjust for 4 points above ambient

so for a RH of 45% simply adjust the temps to 73 which gives a heat index of 77.14

calc here,
http://www.easysurf.cc/cnver16.htm

Been usin this formula for many years

 

[Dready_jake]

That won't kill the plant but if you followed the agricultural chart above you would have happier plants and slightly higher yields. Guys running the VPD chart above and a dialed VPD environment hit around 2-3 grams per watt with no molds or mildews.

 

[barnyard]

happy solstice indeed!

my what a tough Winter and Spring for plants we've had....Summertime and the living is easy!

 

[barnyard]

oh, and if you're doing it right you don't have control of the temp, rH or ventilation, IMO, ;-)

 

[Riddleme]

That won't kill the plant but if you followed the agricultural chart above you would have happier plants and slightly higher yields. Guys running the VPD chart above and a dialed VPD environment hit around 2-3 grams per watt with no molds or mildews.

ironic, since I'm the guy that wrote the book Grow Happy plants

 

[Dready_jake]

So you know it all and couldn't be slightly off on anything? Sorry I know now and won't dare question anyone again.

Its a versatile weed and can grow in any conditions but were discussing the best environment and best ranges right now.

People have been growing for years and getting great results, but as soon as they implement the vpd chart their mind is blown. Fast explosive growth, higher yields cuz the plants transpire less leading to energy focused on growth and bud production. Its not magic its agriculture. Which is where this chart comes from. I didn't make it. An agricultural scientist did.

And yes barnyard as i stated before if You did your job right(designing the room) then you will have planned out and have all these factors in check from the get go.

 

[Avinash.miles]

wind stress is real

wind stress is real

OK but what about sealed rooms where there is little to no air exchange? Guys like djm are killing it and have no exchange.
and why do people put fans to dry floors sometimes if moving the air doesn't dry things somewhat.
(Second example isnt great but the first one djm is solid)

I've seen people all the time with relatively low humidity 45%, and they say the ones by the fan are showing signs of wind stress. BUT IN REALITY, what the plant is showing is humidity stress because if the rh% was proper (see graph above) there is NO SUCH THING as wind stress.

The reason the plants BY the fan were the only ones showing stress was because the air wasn't moving around the room properly so the fan dried this section of air while the transpiration of the rest of the plants kept those from stresssing

Had the humidity been higher there might be an issue cuz you can tell the air movement is subpar. BUT if the humidity was higher the plants by the fan would be perfectly happy. But like I said you need lots of fans. If all the leafs aren't moving there's a chance for issues. It's not humidity.

peeps like djm & ghetto grow are killing it in sealed rooms, for sure, but they aren't depending on air circulation to lower rh really. iirc they are using all kinds of environmental crontollery (dehuey/huey/ac, which blows cold DRY air)
fans on the floor only dry the floor, they actually are putting the humidity into the air and thus RAISING not lowering humidity.

as for there being "no such thing as wind burn"... are you saying that with proper humidity and temperature (rh) you can blast whatever fans as hard as you want and expect NO damage (stress) at all??? even in perfect rh, the wind can blow a plant right over into the dirt (or concrete floor) and cause it a good amount of "wind stress".

room design is key for sure... BUT what worked last round, last season, may not work this round this season. more plants, bigger plants, just MORE PLANT in the room makes more humidity.
is there something personal between jake & barnyard? or is this conversation really just going on this long?

 

[Dready_jake]

Its going on this long. Its been conplwtely civil.

Djm does no such things. He controls humidity with the plants only. And relies solely on air circulation.

And yes and no avanish. If rh% and temps are in line(VPD) the plant can handle any fan UP TO the point where it gets blown over. Which its still getting knocked over not stress from the wind itself. If YOU knocked the branch over would you call it wind stress?

 

[Avinash.miles]

any of you use an evaporative cooler instead of ac?? what size and for how big an area?

the whole conversation started with this question, which NOONE has answered yet....

I'm curious of the same, i have access to a big new swamp cooler, i run my unvented lites at nite with little to no ac just TONS of air exchange; and still could use to lower temps a bit (especially NOW going into summer and a new round in my room).
SO i'm wondering the same, does anyone use evap coolers or "swamp coolers" instead of AC, especially in larger spaces like 2/3 car garage or full basement sized roms??? IF i did this i would still run a few exhaust fans in the room, because evap coolers NEED exhausts open, when u run them in the home you have to open door and windows to push the hot air OUT. (once again, we are now talking about air EXCHANGE not circulation, which i feel like i have plenty of in my room).

 

[Avinash.miles]

Its going on this long. Its been conplwtely civil.

Djm does no such things. He controls humidity with the plants only. And relies solely on air circulation.

And yes and no avanish. If rh% and temps are in line(VPD) the plant can handle any fan UP TO the point where it gets blown over. Which its still getting knocked over not stress from the wind itself. If YOU knocked the branch over would you call it wind stress?

so you're telling me....
djm runs NO ac, NO dehuey or huey? and has NO air exchange? i'm not folllowing his current thread, but did the flockwool one....

if i point a fan at a plant and the wind beats it to shit and tosses it on the floor; wind stress, LOL, sad but true, just like heat stress if i dont set the thermostat properly...

 

[Dready_jake]

the whole conversation started with this question, which NOONE has answered yet....

I'm curious of the same, i have access to a big new swamp cooler, i run my unlites at nite with little to no ac just TONS of air exchange; and still could use to lower temps a bit (especially NOW going into summer and a new round in my room).
SO i'm wondering the same, does anyone use evap coolers or "swamp coolers" instead of AC, especially in larger spaces like 2/3 car garage or full basement sized roms??? IF i did this i would still run a few exhaust fans in the room, because evap coolers NEED exhausts open, when u run them in the home you have to open door and windows to push the hot air OUT. (once again, we are now talking about air EXCHANGE not circulation, which i feel like i have plenty of in my room).

That's what I read.

Lol I was saying I don't think its a bad idea. I've known people who ran swamp coolers and still needed humidifiers here in co.

And the debate got started by the response that swamp coolers produce too much humidity. Which started a what is too much debate. Lol