N
noyd666
ha I will have to correct that lol. but no always run high.
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Coco Tree's
- Thread starter DJM
- Start date
Bwanabud
Active member
Actually, conversation and exchange is how we learn and grow as individuals...it's when freedom of opinion is suppressed that life gets dangerous
a really great thread except for the childish bickering! it would be nice to have a mod clean it up.
thank you DJM!
i must say that your canopy shots show some of the best canopies i've ever seen.
very productive use of the space!
in a few weeks i'll be switching back to horizontal after 10 years of vertical trees and you have answered a lot of the questions that i was concerned about.
thanks again!
thank you DJM!
i must say that your canopy shots show some of the best canopies i've ever seen.
very productive use of the space!
in a few weeks i'll be switching back to horizontal after 10 years of vertical trees and you have answered a lot of the questions that i was concerned about.
thanks again!
oti$
Active member
You still will be rocking ppks I presume....and what kind of lighting will you be employing in your horizontal endeavors?
i've been buying up used ac/de fixtures. they are designed for a 5x5 at a 30" workplane.
i will still be growing large plants because here in oregon we have count limits per medical card but no size limits.
i won't be air cooling them and will run them with the glass off. i have redundant ac, lots of air movement, and high ceilings.
first of all i hope some of you don't think i am the culprit to trolling or bringing bad info to the table in this thread.
Not at all, As a Botanist now for over 18 years. from studying plants to Blue and green algae and other Fungi and bacteria as well a presently working for a environmental agency
I have been graced with working with a variety of plant species C3 - C4's etc as well as a variety of different marijuana strain from all regions of the planet ..
Now i am not stating VPD is a bad thought.
But one has to realize, that genetics play a crucial role in what the plant is capable of handling as in temps and RH in all stages of growth.
Paying attention to the genetic background of the strain you choose will serve you well plants with a subtropical or tropical lineage will respond much better to increased heat and humidity than a temperate zone specimen.
There is a variety for almost every climate zone, and finding the right strain for your own may be challenging but will certainly prove rewarding. Although this is obviously much relevant to outdoor growing, it will have some bearing on an indoor grow. Conditions inside still to some extent depend on external conditions, unless you do not rely on air drawn in from outside. Sativas found in hot, dry regions often have narrow leaves with high resin content which reduce transpiration. Long internodes, wide-spaced branches and loose flower structure allow greater airflow and less opportunity for damp spots in hot, humid conditions. Leaves are often somewhat wider to provide greater surface area for transpiration.
And much higher THC, then there sister Indica's in the northern hemisphere .
And that are more prone to Bud rot and other issues Indica's
See where i am getting at ??? I have grown sativas @ 120 degrees F as long as irrigation is adequate plants thrived ..
I also tested RH @ different levels during different phases of plant growth .
And from my findings i found most all marijuana strains in veg like 65 - 80 humidity in veg .
What happens or what is seen most of the time when inexperienced growers flip to flower they drop RH to fast there fore causing issues as nutrient burns or Deficiencies you have changed the plants respiration to fast think of a person catching a chill
Plant can also ..
So please lets keep everything to a open discussion that is what these forums are for not because someone disagrees there for he or she is a troll ..
We should be better then that after all were human ..
On closing note some food for thought :::
Can plants catch a cold ??? or if you had cold could you transfer it to the plant ???
If you regard a cold as a virus ( which they are ) then the answer would be yes you could pass your cold virus to your plants
Have a nice thanks giving Canada
Not at all, As a Botanist now for over 18 years. from studying plants to Blue and green algae and other Fungi and bacteria as well a presently working for a environmental agency
I have been graced with working with a variety of plant species C3 - C4's etc as well as a variety of different marijuana strain from all regions of the planet ..
Now i am not stating VPD is a bad thought.
But one has to realize, that genetics play a crucial role in what the plant is capable of handling as in temps and RH in all stages of growth.
Paying attention to the genetic background of the strain you choose will serve you well plants with a subtropical or tropical lineage will respond much better to increased heat and humidity than a temperate zone specimen.
There is a variety for almost every climate zone, and finding the right strain for your own may be challenging but will certainly prove rewarding. Although this is obviously much relevant to outdoor growing, it will have some bearing on an indoor grow. Conditions inside still to some extent depend on external conditions, unless you do not rely on air drawn in from outside. Sativas found in hot, dry regions often have narrow leaves with high resin content which reduce transpiration. Long internodes, wide-spaced branches and loose flower structure allow greater airflow and less opportunity for damp spots in hot, humid conditions. Leaves are often somewhat wider to provide greater surface area for transpiration.
And much higher THC, then there sister Indica's in the northern hemisphere .
And that are more prone to Bud rot and other issues Indica's
See where i am getting at ??? I have grown sativas @ 120 degrees F as long as irrigation is adequate plants thrived ..
I also tested RH @ different levels during different phases of plant growth .
And from my findings i found most all marijuana strains in veg like 65 - 80 humidity in veg .
What happens or what is seen most of the time when inexperienced growers flip to flower they drop RH to fast there fore causing issues as nutrient burns or Deficiencies you have changed the plants respiration to fast think of a person catching a chill
Plant can also ..
So please lets keep everything to a open discussion that is what these forums are for not because someone disagrees there for he or she is a troll ..
We should be better then that after all were human ..
On closing note some food for thought :::
Can plants catch a cold ??? or if you had cold could you transfer it to the plant ???
If you regard a cold as a virus ( which they are ) then the answer would be yes you could pass your cold virus to your plants
Have a nice thanks giving Canada
Attachments
yeah mods are asleep at the wheel, then they wonder why no one posts here anymore
thanks for the kind words and I'm glad the thread has been helpful. that's what its all about..and posts like yours are the reason I wade through the nonsense to continue contributing to the thread..i enjoyed your ppk thread and look forward to what you do in horizontal gardens..i also came from vert (collosiums and stadiums) and id never go back. one can get just as good yields horizontally with less work when the room and system is dialed in. good luck in your transition and feel free to post here or pm me if you need any help
first of all i hope some of you don't think i am the culprit to trolling or bringing bad info to the table in this thread.
Not at all, As a Botanist now for over 18 years. from studying plants to Blue and green algae and other Fungi and bacteria as well a presently working for a environmental agency
I have been graced with working with a variety of plant species C3 - C4's etc as well as a variety of different marijuana strain from all regions of the planet ..
Now i am not stating VPD is a bad thought.
But one has to realize, that genetics play a crucial role in what the plant is capable of handling as in temps and RH in all stages of growth.
Paying attention to the genetic background of the strain you choose will serve you well plants with a subtropical or tropical lineage will respond much better to increased heat and humidity than a temperate zone specimen.
There is a variety for almost every climate zone, and finding the right strain for your own may be challenging but will certainly prove rewarding. Although this is obviously much relevant to outdoor growing, it will have some bearing on an indoor grow. Conditions inside still to some extent depend on external conditions, unless you do not rely on air drawn in from outside. Sativas found in hot, dry regions often have narrow leaves with high resin content which reduce transpiration. Long internodes, wide-spaced branches and loose flower structure allow greater airflow and less opportunity for damp spots in hot, humid conditions. Leaves are often somewhat wider to provide greater surface area for transpiration.
And much higher THC, then there sister Indica's in the northern hemisphere .
And that are more prone to Bud rot and other issues Indica's
See where i am getting at ??? I have grown sativas @ 120 degrees F as long as irrigation is adequate plants thrived ..
I also tested RH @ different levels during different phases of plant growth .
And from my findings i found most all marijuana strains in veg like 65 - 80 humidity in veg .
What happens or what is seen most of the time when inexperienced growers flip to flower they drop RH to fast there fore causing issues as nutrient burns or Deficiencies you have changed the plants respiration to fast think of a person catching a chill
Plant can also ..
So please lets keep everything to a open discussion that is what these forums are for not because someone disagrees there for he or she is a troll ..
We should be better then that after all were human ..
On closing note some food for thought :::
Can plants catch a cold ??? or if you had cold could you transfer it to the plant ???
If you regard a cold as a virus ( which they are ) then the answer would be yes you could pass your cold virus to your plants
Have a nice thanks giving Canada
I haven't been bothered by your posts, because, atleast your contributing something of value, even if I disagree with some of it
one thing ive learned about growing is first hand trial and error and experience trumps book knowledge 10 to 1 , every single time..some of the smartest plant people I know (botanists such as yourself) , are ironically the worst growers I know. almost every single one actually..I found that sometimes having an encyclopedia of plant information and rule of thumbs and SOPs in your head, will blind you from stepping outside of that knowledge base to try something that botany has attempted to debunk or incorrectly understand. atleast in the realm of indoor cannabis cultivation...Or sometimes one can think so highly of their knowledge that they refuse to step outside of it and question their own teachings.. I think we as humans haven't even begin to understand the plant world and the second we think we have, that's when the world and its possibilities begin to narrow down..i for example am a high school drop out with no college or formal schooling..everything ive learned ive learned from mostly trial and error sprinkled around theory..not the other way around..this thread and my techniques are the result of that
this in no way is to take away from the validity of your posts..its just something ive seen quite often..and frankly ive yet to see a botanist with a room or canopy that was so impressive it had me question what I was doing or my rudimentary understanding of plants..people can tell me why I'm doing something wrong scientifically and it means nothing to me if the plants are telling me I'm doing something right..and they have been for quite some time
id like to clear up all the misunderstandings regarding my use of vpd and high heat/humidity in my rooms
earlier in the thread I said ive ran as high as 80% before all the way up to harvest and never had rot..and that is true..however no where did I say that 80% to harvest was ideal nor that I do that purposely, only that I have before...as mentioned in the previous post, I learn from trial and error..just like my intake cooling system..and with trial and error there is many tweakings and evolutions of an idea..as in that situation there is no one to copy ...this thread is the result of that
in growing plants there is no way that is 100% right for every plant at every stage of growing..any of that tells you differently lacks the experience to realize that
I use a loose template for the environment in my room, and depending on the plant size, flowering time, and other variables I may tweek things here and there...but I ALWAYS stay in the range of correct vpd...anyone that thinks vpd is just running high heat and humidity all the time should really do some more reading before they post here...here is what the schedule of an average run looks for me environmentally
ALL veg - 85 f / 75% rh (day) ; 80f/ 70% (night) ; 800 ppms co2
week 1 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 2 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 3 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 4 - 82f/ 72% rh (day) ; 78f/ 68% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 5 - 80f/ 70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms c02
week 6 - 80f /70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 7 - 78f/68% rh (day) ; 72 f/ 62% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 8 - 75f/ 65%rh (day) ; 70f/ 60% (night) ; 0 ppms co2
week 9 - 70f /60% rh (day) ; 60f/ 50% (night) ; 0 ppm c02
That is the average range in my room for a 63 day strain..If its a 56 or 70 day strain I just extend or shorten the temps/rh for the stretch period...The dropping of temps and rh is not to prevent rot as that has truly never been an issue in my rooms..but its to create denser flowers. sometimes it can bring more color and fragrance as well..ive essentially started running my rooms to mirror the natural transition of the seasons where its hot and humid in the summer to benefit vegetative growth but then cools down and dries out to benefit the ripening phase of the last few weeks of flower
now with that said, this is what I consider ideal temps/rh...but that's not to say that anything outside of that will harm the plant..people need to understand just how resilient this plant is..for example , I'm currently growing in greenhouses outdoors now and my night time humidity is always in the 80s due to the humidity of the NE. and has been the entire flowering period..im harvesting as we speak and rot is non existent..because I have an obsene amount of air movement..so although I wouldn't advise someone that 80% rh is ideal to intentionally run, I wouldn't say its the devil either like some people here have..when you understand the variable of high RH and know how to balance the other variable such as wind along side it,to its benefit, then it demystifies the fear of high RH in a grow room
hopefully that can put this beaten dead horse to sleep
earlier in the thread I said ive ran as high as 80% before all the way up to harvest and never had rot..and that is true..however no where did I say that 80% to harvest was ideal nor that I do that purposely, only that I have before...as mentioned in the previous post, I learn from trial and error..just like my intake cooling system..and with trial and error there is many tweakings and evolutions of an idea..as in that situation there is no one to copy ...this thread is the result of that
in growing plants there is no way that is 100% right for every plant at every stage of growing..any of that tells you differently lacks the experience to realize that
I use a loose template for the environment in my room, and depending on the plant size, flowering time, and other variables I may tweek things here and there...but I ALWAYS stay in the range of correct vpd...anyone that thinks vpd is just running high heat and humidity all the time should really do some more reading before they post here...here is what the schedule of an average run looks for me environmentally
ALL veg - 85 f / 75% rh (day) ; 80f/ 70% (night) ; 800 ppms co2
week 1 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 2 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 3 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 4 - 82f/ 72% rh (day) ; 78f/ 68% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 5 - 80f/ 70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms c02
week 6 - 80f /70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 7 - 78f/68% rh (day) ; 72 f/ 62% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 8 - 75f/ 65%rh (day) ; 70f/ 60% (night) ; 0 ppms co2
week 9 - 70f /60% rh (day) ; 60f/ 50% (night) ; 0 ppm c02
That is the average range in my room for a 63 day strain..If its a 56 or 70 day strain I just extend or shorten the temps/rh for the stretch period...The dropping of temps and rh is not to prevent rot as that has truly never been an issue in my rooms..but its to create denser flowers. sometimes it can bring more color and fragrance as well..ive essentially started running my rooms to mirror the natural transition of the seasons where its hot and humid in the summer to benefit vegetative growth but then cools down and dries out to benefit the ripening phase of the last few weeks of flower
now with that said, this is what I consider ideal temps/rh...but that's not to say that anything outside of that will harm the plant..people need to understand just how resilient this plant is..for example , I'm currently growing in greenhouses outdoors now and my night time humidity is always in the 80s due to the humidity of the NE. and has been the entire flowering period..im harvesting as we speak and rot is non existent..because I have an obsene amount of air movement..so although I wouldn't advise someone that 80% rh is ideal to intentionally run, I wouldn't say its the devil either like some people here have..when you understand the variable of high RH and know how to balance the other variable such as wind along side it,to its benefit, then it demystifies the fear of high RH in a grow room
hopefully that can put this beaten dead horse to sleep
As so often happens in science, we did not set out to address a question in our studies, But the answers fall on our laps after repeated tests.
there is no substitute as in trial and error. It starts at a young age.
It was not a person that fell onto VPD but science once must remember that. and most importantly its publications of science which most learn soil biology, plant biology etc..
Although many tests are to run plants at the extreme forcing either a Deficiency or some other type of stress.
It may appear like you suggested some horticulturalists, or Botanists cannot grow .. on the other hand knowing or having knowledge on what makes a plant Tick . there surely could make a plant thrive ..
This is today's growers there applying Science into there equation of growing instead of trial and error there success rates are much better.. rather then repeated failures
there is no substitute as in trial and error. It starts at a young age.
It was not a person that fell onto VPD but science once must remember that. and most importantly its publications of science which most learn soil biology, plant biology etc..
Although many tests are to run plants at the extreme forcing either a Deficiency or some other type of stress.
It may appear like you suggested some horticulturalists, or Botanists cannot grow .. on the other hand knowing or having knowledge on what makes a plant Tick . there surely could make a plant thrive ..
This is today's growers there applying Science into there equation of growing instead of trial and error there success rates are much better.. rather then repeated failures
gotdatfire
New member
@djm donjuanmatus
@djm donjuanmatus
Hey djm I was hoping you could accept my follow on instagram my name is @mofire420 . I have a lot of respect for you and I'm a fellow grower of wool and coco. You have a great outlook on growing! Thanks
️
@djm donjuanmatus
Hey djm I was hoping you could accept my follow on instagram my name is @mofire420 . I have a lot of respect for you and I'm a fellow grower of wool and coco. You have a great outlook on growing! Thanks
️
Applesauce
Active member
What is the enzyme you add each feeding DJM? You contributed a legendary thread DJM, congrats.
Boutique Manettino
Member
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Applesauce
Active member
Enzymes were mentioned by DJM as being used during each feeding. Yet this is a sterile system. Is that a contradiction?
gotdatfire
New member
Hey donjuan @jm_grown instagram -
Hey DJM,
kudos and thanks from another admirer.
I read Jackmayoffer's thread several times and was completely bummed that he stopped posting a year or so ago. This thread is just as great and is an incredible learning tool for everyone, especially novices like me. but I think even those who have done it well on their own but using other approaches have expressed how much they appreciate the chance to learn new or different ideas. As you pointed out, getting good at anything is usually a long road of trial and error. In my general experience, lessons are best learned when learned the hard way. That said, I'd rather learn from as much of your T&E as I can rather than have to go through all of it on my own.
please keep up the good work of showing us what has worked for you and why.
kudos and thanks from another admirer.
I read Jackmayoffer's thread several times and was completely bummed that he stopped posting a year or so ago. This thread is just as great and is an incredible learning tool for everyone, especially novices like me. but I think even those who have done it well on their own but using other approaches have expressed how much they appreciate the chance to learn new or different ideas. As you pointed out, getting good at anything is usually a long road of trial and error. In my general experience, lessons are best learned when learned the hard way. That said, I'd rather learn from as much of your T&E as I can rather than have to go through all of it on my own.
please keep up the good work of showing us what has worked for you and why.
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I would really like to adapt these methods as my temps are not great, and the negative pressure of my exhaust is messing with my hot water heater. My rooms are not sealed as they have cheap sliding doors so we can roll beds out of the rooms. There is a "lung room" between the two rooms in the basement. The lung room is also where the entryway to the basement is. If I sealed this lung room from the rest of the house and added carbon filters recirculating in the lung room, would this control smell? The active intakes bringing cold air from my windows would be forcing air out of the flower rooms due to positive pressure, into the lung room, where it would be scrubbed before going anywhere else...
Another option would be cooling the lung room, either with a mini split, outside air, or some other means. Having the active intakes pulling air from the lung room, into the grow spaces. The grow space would have passive exhaust leading back to the lung room. The intakes from the lung room would have the carbon filters on them, and since the grow space would be passively exhausting back into the lung room, that smelly air would get sucked right back into the intake that's cooling the grow space. I'm just not sure how cold I'd need to get that lung room, because it is much smaller than the grow spaces. I imagine a minisplit would be best with this method but we do have an old 4" dryer vent in the lung room that could access outdoor air. Not sure if that would bring in enough cold air to cool the lung room enough to cool two 4k rooms with. I would run the rooms at separate times though, so that would help. Lights off would be interesting to dial in.
Would I need an active exhaust for when the lights are out and the intake stops due to reaching the set point?
Another option would be cooling the lung room, either with a mini split, outside air, or some other means. Having the active intakes pulling air from the lung room, into the grow spaces. The grow space would have passive exhaust leading back to the lung room. The intakes from the lung room would have the carbon filters on them, and since the grow space would be passively exhausting back into the lung room, that smelly air would get sucked right back into the intake that's cooling the grow space. I'm just not sure how cold I'd need to get that lung room, because it is much smaller than the grow spaces. I imagine a minisplit would be best with this method but we do have an old 4" dryer vent in the lung room that could access outdoor air. Not sure if that would bring in enough cold air to cool the lung room enough to cool two 4k rooms with. I would run the rooms at separate times though, so that would help. Lights off would be interesting to dial in.
Would I need an active exhaust for when the lights are out and the intake stops due to reaching the set point?
