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Coco Tree's
- Thread starter DJM
- Start date
You're right on this on.
PM is not systemic as it does not enter the plant and circulate within the plant and re-surface as an infection elsewhere.
Spores are air borne and easily cause infections where ever it finds a hospitable host.
It can get its organs "into" a plant but it does not spread that way. It can only spread on the surface.
Source: Robert C. Clarks - "Hemp pests and diseases"
I never had a PM issue in my life till about a year ago. Taking in cuts I suppose. And so I started spraying all the normal organic stuff. Tea, Green Cure, Baking soda. Im perpetual so I could not get crazy. And so I would only spray Eagle 20 in veg. I never had it show in Veg not once not even in the dome's on the babys. But every time a few weeks into flower they would start every time.
I had a friend suggest a sulfur burner it doesn't hurt the flowers and what not but I could not bring myself to do it. Thinking the PM was systemic I dint see the point.
And so one day my AC froze up and I wasn't there to catch it. (won't happen again BTW) By the time I did my rooms had gotten hot bad. It was like 100 and the RH was like 100. I lost some crops to say the least. But it ended my PM issue. Same plants same environment I even have a higher humidity now with following DJ suggestions and nothing not a drop. Im so thankful and I know now what to do. Its spores flying around from cracks and crevices. And I will attack it there if I end up with again some how.
I had a friend suggest a sulfur burner it doesn't hurt the flowers and what not but I could not bring myself to do it. Thinking the PM was systemic I dint see the point.
And so one day my AC froze up and I wasn't there to catch it. (won't happen again BTW) By the time I did my rooms had gotten hot bad. It was like 100 and the RH was like 100. I lost some crops to say the least. But it ended my PM issue. Same plants same environment I even have a higher humidity now with following DJ suggestions and nothing not a drop. Im so thankful and I know now what to do. Its spores flying around from cracks and crevices. And I will attack it there if I end up with again some how.
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i think the most important part regarding pm is to find the source, not only kill the pm. otherwise it'll always come back.
for instance: i quite often saw ventilation systems running in circulating mode in small setups (< 10m²), meaning the exhaust air flows back into the room.
in this case the exhaust air is filled with spores and the active carbon filter being close to the lamp is a perfect incubator for the spores due the heat.
a friend of mine had exactly this situation. the pm always came back couple months after using a systemic fungicide like eagle20. i realized what was going on, told him.
he got a new filter and changed the setup so the exhaust air was going out of the room. after that no more pm.
so always try to find out where the pm is coming, take action and then treat the plant with a fungicide.
for instance: i quite often saw ventilation systems running in circulating mode in small setups (< 10m²), meaning the exhaust air flows back into the room.
in this case the exhaust air is filled with spores and the active carbon filter being close to the lamp is a perfect incubator for the spores due the heat.
a friend of mine had exactly this situation. the pm always came back couple months after using a systemic fungicide like eagle20. i realized what was going on, told him.
he got a new filter and changed the setup so the exhaust air was going out of the room. after that no more pm.
so always try to find out where the pm is coming, take action and then treat the plant with a fungicide.
Wow what a great read! For years my grower friends have given me a hard time for taking the main top for cuttings. I have used mothers they work, but I felt that the main tops have more vigor and get bigger much faster than smaller side shoots. Lots to think about in this thread! 
_Underscore_
Member
Can someone sticky this post already!!!
Makes sense I could not narrow it down except for it happening in flower there wasn't a corner or anything that was getting infected more or less then anything else in the room. I have good circulation and Im sealed so there is no outside so I do believe like your saying it was coming from some ware and my heat wave killed it off for me. I sort of think It may have been in the AC ducting but who knows all I know is it is gone for good and I didn't have to replace or change anything so Im super Grateful the gods were shining on me for once. Cause Im Murphys Law
"Anything that can go wrong Will Go wrong" So its nice for once for something good to come out of something so bad.
I just hope giving the word (and Dj Im sorry for us sidetracking your thread brother)...That it helps someone if they have a problem PM is every bit as worse as bugs.
Also I concur here I dont keep mothers I take cuts off when Im lollipoping/cleaning my girls each week preparing them for flower. I have kept mom's over the years and I have found this way to be good for me. I have in fact taken cuts up to 2 weeks in flower and some people defiantly even go in longer with great results. I want to always be verging flipping plants rather then mom's.
Thank you Dj for all your tips brother you ave really fit a few pieces of my puzzle for me man with this new round of info. You have shared some great works man... Big Up's
terpene sniffer
New member
Just got finished reading every single post in this thread. All I can say is that I am quite enlightened in many subjects and astonished at the results of others. Thank you very much DJM, for all of the helpful information and having the personality you do.
On a side note, I can say that personally studying leaf and stem infected with PM, I uncovered zero evidence of the fungi actually entering the body of plants. It seemed to create larger colonies around the outer edge of stoma, but I could never find evidence of the actual mycelium growing inside the plants. This is just my personal experience and observations under 400-2000X magnification. Some PM mycelium and spore bodies on a leaf surface at 800X
On a side note, I can say that personally studying leaf and stem infected with PM, I uncovered zero evidence of the fungi actually entering the body of plants. It seemed to create larger colonies around the outer edge of stoma, but I could never find evidence of the actual mycelium growing inside the plants. This is just my personal experience and observations under 400-2000X magnification. Some PM mycelium and spore bodies on a leaf surface at 800X
Finklsteinshtkd
Member
Bug prevention..
Bug prevention..
First of all, wow, amazing grow you have.. Sometimes I get bored in these threads with the same old questions and answers. I stumbled across your thread and style and I'm so glad that I did. I hadn't heard of VPD before and just looked it up for the first time. Still don't know too much about it but seems interesting for sure. My grows are always too dry and my drying of harvest is always too dry as well. Colorado will do that to you.
I've been tweaking my setup and procedures quite a bit lately and I'm excited to learn more about VPD. I've been migrating my home grow style I've been stuck in for 12 years into a tiny commercial setup. I've learned that the most important part of a successful grow is ease of use. Taking something that may or may not be complex, but is a necessary task or concept, and making it simple, consistent and repeatable.
I used to dread simple things like transplanting or dumping and changing rez's. Now I just try to setup everything so It's convenient and my lazy ass will feel like doing it.
In this pursuit I've been struggling in the area of bug control and prevention. Mainly prevention. I don't like dealing with bugs, or stumbling upon a huge infestation that snuck up on me because again not only was I lazy but I didn't have a simplified repeatable system for consistently preventing these things.
I also don't like harsh chemicals that seem to be more dangerous to us than they do for the bugs they intend to kill. Long story, short (I guess that ship has sailed), I guess my question is of course what do you do to prevent bugs. Root-zone bugs, fliers and plant crawlers?
Right now my plan of action is to mix some diatomaceous earth into my coco and maybe do a top dressing with it. Also some 0000 extra fine steel wool as a top dressing for each plant. That will maybe (bad luck with diatomaceous earth) treat the root-zone and anything that comes out of it. Probably some tanglefoot around the stalk but what about the plant crawlers?
Thanks in advance, sorry for the long windedness but I get excited like a school girl when I find someone who actually knows a lot about growing and isn't just a poser. There are lots of posers and their grandma's out there growing now that want to stretch 2 years experience into 20.
Bug prevention..
First of all, wow, amazing grow you have.. Sometimes I get bored in these threads with the same old questions and answers. I stumbled across your thread and style and I'm so glad that I did. I hadn't heard of VPD before and just looked it up for the first time. Still don't know too much about it but seems interesting for sure. My grows are always too dry and my drying of harvest is always too dry as well. Colorado will do that to you.
I've been tweaking my setup and procedures quite a bit lately and I'm excited to learn more about VPD. I've been migrating my home grow style I've been stuck in for 12 years into a tiny commercial setup. I've learned that the most important part of a successful grow is ease of use. Taking something that may or may not be complex, but is a necessary task or concept, and making it simple, consistent and repeatable.
I used to dread simple things like transplanting or dumping and changing rez's. Now I just try to setup everything so It's convenient and my lazy ass will feel like doing it.
In this pursuit I've been struggling in the area of bug control and prevention. Mainly prevention. I don't like dealing with bugs, or stumbling upon a huge infestation that snuck up on me because again not only was I lazy but I didn't have a simplified repeatable system for consistently preventing these things.
I also don't like harsh chemicals that seem to be more dangerous to us than they do for the bugs they intend to kill. Long story, short (I guess that ship has sailed), I guess my question is of course what do you do to prevent bugs. Root-zone bugs, fliers and plant crawlers?
Right now my plan of action is to mix some diatomaceous earth into my coco and maybe do a top dressing with it. Also some 0000 extra fine steel wool as a top dressing for each plant. That will maybe (bad luck with diatomaceous earth) treat the root-zone and anything that comes out of it. Probably some tanglefoot around the stalk but what about the plant crawlers?
Thanks in advance, sorry for the long windedness but I get excited like a school girl when I find someone who actually knows a lot about growing and isn't just a poser. There are lots of posers and their grandma's out there growing now that want to stretch 2 years experience into 20.
I sprinkle DE on the surface of my coco water it in. Then I sprinkle some on top again. Every transplant. I have no bugs. I haven't had anything other then knats sense forever but this has wiped them out and it is easy and cheap to do. DE will eliminate any soft bodied insect so can you say preventative?
Hope you dont mind us shooting the shit in your thread Dj...
Hope you dont mind us shooting the shit in your thread Dj...
Finklsteinshtkd
Member
I sprinkle DE on the surface of my coco water it in. Then I sprinkle some on top again. Every transplant. I have no bugs. I haven't had anything other then knats sense forever but this has wiped them out and it is easy and cheap to do. DE will eliminate any soft bodied insect so can you say preventative?
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59947&pictureid=1408128&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
Hope you dont mind us shooting the shit in your thread Dj...
Is that a 5 gallon air pot?
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Ive seen a lot of people say how it works a lot better when there is a layer of it on top of ur soil and it stays fairly dry. A lot of the effectiveness comes from the dry sharp edges and dust of it killing the bugs. It slices open their bodies and lungs, is my take on how it works. Best dry though. Careful as its also dangerous for u, as a dust in ur lungs.
Hows that Flexi tank holding up?
I've got 3 of the GH Covert Tank 66 Gal.. I set 3 of them up only to return to find water trapped under them and around them. Not sure which of the 3 were leaking, so I just took them all back down and switched to Brutes.
I love the idea of collapsible reservoirs, but wary of them now.
I've got 3 of the GH Covert Tank 66 Gal.. I set 3 of them up only to return to find water trapped under them and around them. Not sure which of the 3 were leaking, so I just took them all back down and switched to Brutes.
I love the idea of collapsible reservoirs, but wary of them now.
I've had them for a while now maybe like 6-8 months and no problems I fill them all the way up too. They are a bit scuzy with my food reg. but I dont mind. Im un orthodox. But someone with a fetish might not take to kindly. So my point is Idk how you would clean them. If I switched to some food that is more clean (not that I would) I would have to buy new ones. But for a couple 100 bucks not a big deal they have done the job for sure...
Yes I would recommend them to a friend.
Finklsteinshtkd
Member
Hey DJM, just a few more Q's. Do you shoot for a certain number of flowering tops per plant? Do you take off any secondary buds along the lower parts of the branches or any of the lower bud sites below your netting? I'm slowly converting over to something similar to your style.
I've heard of people super lolly popping by removing every bud along the branch except for the very most tip/apical bud on each branch. From your pictures it looks like you're not doing this, but what ARE you doing. I have my space filled with small trees ready to flower and I can't decide if I should work my scrog down onto them or just let them be and flower and do their things. I feel like just letting them be will create a lot of lower fluffy flarf that I don't want, but I really like your style and results.. I don't want to make the wrong choice..lol
I've heard of people super lolly popping by removing every bud along the branch except for the very most tip/apical bud on each branch. From your pictures it looks like you're not doing this, but what ARE you doing. I have my space filled with small trees ready to flower and I can't decide if I should work my scrog down onto them or just let them be and flower and do their things. I feel like just letting them be will create a lot of lower fluffy flarf that I don't want, but I really like your style and results.. I don't want to make the wrong choice..lol
Didn't notice the pm discussion until now, but had something to throw in. I have battled pm off and on throughout the years, was never fun, but was never really that bad. Then like 16 months ago I brought some cuts in and bam there was pm. This time it was different though, my bubba would just fucking cover itself in it. I tried EVERYTHING, and that shit would not stay gone. Finally after 1 year of every horrible thing in history, I finally ditched the bubba in frustration. Didn't even bother to e20 the cuts, burned sulfur a couple times and flipped them. Expected the stuff to come back, figured I was done, but it was gone.
It seems to me that the bubba was the anchor plant. I had the cut for more than 10 years and beaten pm with the exact same cut before, but something had happened with it. It just had completely lost whatever resistance it had to pm (which wasn't much to begin with). He plant had changed in other ways too. It didn't like to stack the way it used to. Used to be about 80% of the plants stacked up fucking huge! by the end it was less than 20%.
I don't think it was just the age of the plant either. I have 2 other broad leaf cultivars in there, that are actually older and did not experience it (either the increased pm susceptibility, or the change in flowering characteristics) No logical explanation, except that somehow this plant had changed.
I'd say it's strain dependent Zenski. There are cultivars which are just not going to do well over 80F. That said if you can get your RH up that high (refer to the VPD chart) perhaps it won't be a problem. You'd just have to try it and see.
I still really can't wrap my head around the odor control in a positive pressure room ran like that. If you pump air into a room without an active outtake wouldn't you just be pushing smell and humidity out any little crack or pinhole it finds possible.
Is DJM's room so well sealed that he is successful in moving air out, and only out through a passive carbon filter. The air being forced out of the room (as a result of the active intake) moves through a carbon filter with no fan..
.. and that works?
Or am I understanding his setup incorrectly?
I still really can't wrap my head around the odor control in a positive pressure room ran like that. If you pump air into a room without an active outtake wouldn't you just be pushing smell and humidity out any little crack or pinhole it finds possible.
Is DJM's room so well sealed that he is successful in moving air out, and only out through a passive carbon filter. The air being forced out of the room (as a result of the active intake) moves through a carbon filter with no fan..
.. and that works?
Or am I understanding his setup incorrectly?
