CMH vs LED vs HPS

[WingzHauser]

Grandmaster LEDs look really nice. Thier Borg model has 50 Preset Spectrums and can adapt to over 500 Spectrums with the Grand Master LEDs Controller..Its a beast at 1500 watts ...NOT CHEAP $2700!!..

Cheaper than the sun, still. Which China may try to patent the spectrum of some day? Since Americans don't believe in natural spectrum.

Impact of Three Different Light Spectra on the Yield, Morphology and Growth Trajectory of Three Different Cannabis sativa L. Strains - PMC

Cannabis is one of the oldest cultivated plants, but plant breeding and cultivation are restricted by country specific regulations. Plant growth, morphology and metabolism can be manipulated by changing light quality and intensity. Three ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The dry flower yield was significantly higher under both LED treatments compared to the conventional CHD light source."

Comparison of the Cannabinoid and Terpene Profiles in Commercial Cannabis from Natural and Artificial Cultivation - PMC

Interest in cultivating cannabis for medical and recreational purposes is increasing due to a dramatic shift in cannabis legislation worldwide. Therefore, a comprehensive understanding of the composition of secondary metabolites, cannabinoids, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The outdoor samples were stickier to the touch and were much more pungent than the indoor samples."


Seems to be, lots of people are happy with poor quality if they came from an indoor background.

Me: Led weed doesn't grow like outdoor. Needs more of everything to compare. Oh except calcium, cannabis still snorts up calc rocks like a fiend under led.

Grow forums: So led needs more calmag?

 

[chiesesganja]

O

Cheaper than the sun, still. Which China may try to patent the spectrum of some day? Since Americans don't believe in natural spectrum.

Impact of Three Different Light Spectra on the Yield, Morphology and Growth Trajectory of Three Different Cannabis sativa L. Strains - PMC

Cannabis is one of the oldest cultivated plants, but plant breeding and cultivation are restricted by country specific regulations. Plant growth, morphology and metabolism can be manipulated by changing light quality and intensity. Three ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The dry flower yield was significantly higher under both LED treatments compared to the conventional CHD light source."

Comparison of the Cannabinoid and Terpene Profiles in Commercial Cannabis from Natural and Artificial Cultivation - PMC

Interest in cultivating cannabis for medical and recreational purposes is increasing due to a dramatic shift in cannabis legislation worldwide. Therefore, a comprehensive understanding of the composition of secondary metabolites, cannabinoids, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The outdoor samples were stickier to the touch and were much more pungent than the indoor samples."


Seems to be, lots of people are happy with poor quality if they came from an indoor background.

Me: Led weed doesn't grow like outdoor. Needs more of everything to compare. Oh except calcium, cannabis still snorts up calc rocks like a fiend under led.

Grow forums: So led needs more cal

Cheaper than the sun, still. Which China may try to patent the spectrum of some day? Since Americans don't believe in natural spectrum.

Impact of Three Different Light Spectra on the Yield, Morphology and Growth Trajectory of Three Different Cannabis sativa L. Strains - PMC

Cannabis is one of the oldest cultivated plants, but plant breeding and cultivation are restricted by country specific regulations. Plant growth, morphology and metabolism can be manipulated by changing light quality and intensity. Three ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The dry flower yield was significantly higher under both LED treatments compared to the conventional CHD light source."

Comparison of the Cannabinoid and Terpene Profiles in Commercial Cannabis from Natural and Artificial Cultivation - PMC

Interest in cultivating cannabis for medical and recreational purposes is increasing due to a dramatic shift in cannabis legislation worldwide. Therefore, a comprehensive understanding of the composition of secondary metabolites, cannabinoids, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The outdoor samples were stickier to the touch and were much more pungent than the indoor samples."


Seems to be, lots of people are happy with poor quality if they came from an indoor background.

Me: Led weed doesn't grow like outdoor. Needs more of everything to compare. Oh except calcium, cannabis still snorts up calc rocks like a fiend under led.

Grow forums: So led needs more calmag?

Out door is the best !!!

 

[zachrockbadenof]

O


Out door is the best !!!

no doubt about that - a good outdoor weed will always kick a good indoor grow...

 

[WingzHauser]

Cheap adjustables should be standard fare by now.. Check your spam folders

https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600874893930/Koniea-2023-New-Style-4-channel.html

 

[Ca++]

Is normal o too small ??

Looks good. It's hard to be sure, without knowledge of the plant. It's not small though.
That's about as big as I manage, but very few that size. Outdoors I see them big enough to write notes on. It's not very bright here, so they have to get bigger.

 

[JKD]

Comparison of the Cannabinoid and Terpene Profiles in Commercial Cannabis from Natural and Artificial Cultivation - PMC

Interest in cultivating cannabis for medical and recreational purposes is increasing due to a dramatic shift in cannabis legislation worldwide. Therefore, a comprehensive understanding of the composition of secondary metabolites, cannabinoids, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

^ seems an odd study.

Usually variables are limited, but in this study the only constant appears to be the clone. What about:

-LED growers using living soil?
-Greenhouse growers using synthetic hydro?
-Outdoor at one latitude vs another?
-Clone selected and acclimatised indoor vs outdoor?

Which parameter, or combination is causing the observed difference?

Perhaps it’s a preliminary study?

 

[Ca++]

Grow forums: So led needs more calmag?

A lot of people did find issues that calmag fixed. It's undeniable.
Most were saying it was the Ca, after seeing signs associated with Ca by other growers.
Some said we need more Mg, to help build more chrolorphyll.
Others bumped up their usual feed 40%

Personally I bumped the feed. Later I tried to find the individual cause, and it was Nitrogen my HID suited feed lacked the most, when using LED. Very recently I have been using calmag just to get the Nitrogen, knowing my soil feed actually offers no Ca&Mg and some won't hurt. The recent papers finding 160-180ppm N about right, are, imo, right on the money. 150ppm wasn't enough with 750umol of light, but 160ppm seems to of stabilised it. I'm not in hydro though. It's a high peat compost, that supports fast growing plants (jacks magic) so they have my 160ppm + the compost. It's a lot higher than the 120ppm my bloom food of old provided. The one I needed 40% more of (about 165?)
Using calmag I could green up my plants a lot in veg. Pools of green forming, on shiny nice looking leaves. It's a useful way of greening up plants. Just N alone can't do it. The green we see is chlorophyll, and to make that needs other things.


I didn't do chemistry, so this might be wrong, but..

At the center of chlorophyll we have Mg. This is why one reputable company said to use LED, we would need more Mg for more growth. Around this we have nitrogen atoms. So we need more of them to. Then we start seeing Carbons use, from the air. Along with Hydrogen and Oxygen from the water. These are major constituents of green. Both Mg and N come from calmag. Along with Ca, which is involved with signalling and building.

I think it's quite reasonable that people fixed their plants with calmag. However, the reason it put the green back in the leaf stripes, might not be clear. For that is what most people fixed with calmag. As apposed to actual calcium deficiency. iirc.

 

[Hammerhead]

This thread isn't about growing under the sun. Not sure why this keeps getting brought up. All of us would prefer to grow outdoors but cannot do that for whatever reasons we all have.. No one is going to argue the sun isn't the best for growing lol..

 

[Kimes]

Still on the fence whether the need for additional cal/mag with LEDs is due to temperature differences between HID and LED..

Anyone here having a different opinion, ie. same leaf and ambient temps, same everything else with both systems, but LED still needs additional cal/mag more than HID..? Experiences?

Never tried aircooled HID, does the need for additional cal/mag rise then vs non-cooled?

Just wondering..

 

[chiesesganja]

Looks good. It's hard to be sure, without knowledge of the plant. It's not small though.
That's about as big as I manage, but very few that size. Outdoors I see them big enough to write notes on. It's not very bright here, so they have to get bigger.

If I increase the power …my plant will more bigger .leaf also .my space is height limit .

 

[chiesesganja]

This thread isn't about growing under the sun. Not sure why this keeps getting brought up. All of us would prefer to grow outdoors but cannot do that for whatever reasons we all have.. No one is going to argue the sun isn't the best for growing lol..

Some moron says, indoor hydro is the best

 

[Hammerhead]

Indoor has a premium price for specific reasons. Indoor quality can be more consistent than outdoor with no worries of pests/Molds. Outdoor has always produced killer weed but has more issues getting there. Ive had plenty of killer outdoor and also had plenty of killer indoor. The quality produced has more to do with the grower than the light sources.

 

[Ca++]

If I increase the power …my plant will more bigger .leaf also .my space is height limit .

Somebody else said that recently. I'm guessing there is a curve. Where low light doesn't grow much, and high light doesn't need to.
What sort of power do you have, over what area? (if you don't know your ppfd)

 

[alpo]

Summertime in the uk it's 34c running hids even during the night.

It's too hot to grow.

I ran leds during summer a few years back and it was doable with the reduced radiant heat of the leds, still 31c but the smoke was boof compared to hids so i don't bother anymore.

I dont want to waste my valuable strains and miss a keeper with the boof cloak in action

don't take it from me, but maybe someone can say the LED improved depending how many few years back you used them. Almost all lights are changing to LED.

 

[exoticrobotic]

I'm sure they are improving.

Let me know when they're done.

 

[alpo]

it will prolly take awhile,,,

 

[exoticrobotic]

I'm smoking some sage grown with hps/cmh.

Whilst it's not the strongest of smokes it satisfies me when i smoke it. I dont feel the need to roll another straight away chasing some missing cannabinoid.

My experience with leds is that they seem to boost thc at the expense of other cannabinoids that i am used to having in my smoke.

hence i stick to hps/cmh

 

[greyfader]

Still on the fence whether the need for additional cal/mag with LEDs is due to temperature differences between HID and LED..

Anyone here having a different opinion, ie. same leaf and ambient temps, same everything else with both systems, but LED still needs additional cal/mag more than HID..? Experiences?

Never tried aircooled HID, does the need for additional cal/mag rise then vs non-cooled?

Just wondering..

i'm using a form of recirculating hydro known as the PPK.

when using de hps and jack's 5-12-26 with calcinit i never had to supplement magnesium.

using leds i do. i use the 3-2-1 formula and everything looks good.

so the question is why? i used high light levels in both situations but this level is a spot reading at the top of the plant. taken with a par meter.

two plants, one hps at 1200 umols at top dead center and another led at 1200 umols top dead center.

it looks and sounds as if they are getting the same amount of light but they are not.

and the reason is that the hps is a single-point source and the led is a multipoint source.

all green parts of the plant are photosynthetic.

it's my theory that the multipoint nature of the leds is driving the plant at a higher metabolic rate because of reduced shading or conversely, increased lit surface area.

even with the same spot reading at the top of the plant.

in the crude drawing below i show a representation of a hps and a led.

you can see where the led would reduce shading and illuminate a greater surface area of the entire plant.

this could be by a factor as high as 15-20% or even more.

magnesium is the central element in all chlorophyll types.

the increased illuminated area has to be driving the metabolic rate higher overall.

temperature is the second most powerful driver of metabolism after light.

 

[Kimes]

@greyfader

Was the temperature same in both instances? (that too is related to plant metabolism..)

Great answer/comment, many thanks.

 

[greyfader]

@greyfader

Was the temperature same in both instances? (that too is related to plant metabolism..)

Great answer/comment, many thanks.

thank you! well, i usually run everything at around 84-86f. always have, so yes that would be with similar temps. i grew with hps for 21 years and now leds for 5 years.