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CMH vs LED vs HPS

greyfader

Well-known member
I did the incandescent/LED mix, and it returned some stretch. Essentially the leads become more prominent. Less of the screen of green look. I didn't see any other gain from them. I increased lighting load about 10% with them. It didn't physically feel like I had added a heat source.

Using HID in a mix, I have the same ppfd but 20% more out of band heat. Now that does feel like I added heat. Leads came up that reminded me hps wasn't just about driver hum. I can't say anything about the result, as it was one of them 'flower the mums in the corner' affairs. While I devised a proper grow for next time.

Actually... It is next time, but I'm still chewing my pen. Yet another drip, or get the F&D going. Only.. the F&D means a baby F&D for cuts and veg stages. Where I don't want tables. Just pots. Anyway..


You will see morphology differences at the very least.
thank you for sharing that. i'm going to run 5000k only up until the end of the second week of flower. then switch them out. i'm hoping to minimize the extension stretch and still get more mass from the flowers.

maybe we don't need as much infrared if the ambient is kept in the 84-86f range.
 

Ca++

Well-known member
thank you for sharing that. i'm going to run 5000k only up until the end of the second week of flower. then switch them out. i'm hoping to minimize the extension stretch and still get more mass from the flowers.

maybe we don't need as much infrared if the ambient is kept in the 84-86f range.
If you limit stretch with that blue, you will likely get a crop that falls in that screen of green category. A flat canopy of buds that are all a similar size.

The far red causes a stretch response, so the leads elongate, subduing the rest, as the plant must get something out the shade.

The two can be seen as a 2D or 3D crop.

If you draw a box on a bit of paper, it still only has one side. While a real box has a greater surface area.


Does that make sense?
 

JKD

Well-known member
Veteran
@greyfader
Are you still running the same PPK design as in the ‘something wicked this way comes’ thread, or have you improved the system again?
 

Ca++

Well-known member
Conversation steering. Now there's a thing..
iu

I like a range of jugs to hand, and it's better if they bounce
 

greyfader

Well-known member
If you limit stretch with that blue, you will likely get a crop that falls in that screen of green category. A flat canopy of buds that are all a similar size.

The far red causes a stretch response, so the leads elongate, subduing the rest, as the plant must get something out the shade.

The two can be seen as a 2D or 3D crop.

If you draw a box on a bit of paper, it still only has one side. While a real box has a greater surface area.


Does that make sense?
yes, i typically use screens and fill them horizontally almost completely, then let the shoots achieve some depth. 3d
 

Corpselover Fat

Active member
Off topic, but here’s a link to new research into incandescent technology almost as efficient as LED:


Thanks for posting. Very interesting while the efficacy they have now and what they are aiming at is lower than leds. The topic says cmh vs led vs hps, but I think incandescent and all other fairly obscure lighting fits in here well. I mean people have been talking about mh here too and imo all lighting fits in here (except for flat earth theories about the sun and stars).
 

snakedope

Active member
you are totally clueless! what you have written above is babble. so reality and science are two different things?

you disdain science yet you use it all day long every day. your computer, cell phone, car, and everything you touch and see is the result of science.

you do not have even a basic understanding of light.

especially as it applies to plants.
Told u before, bring any light expert or scientists that say you can add up the intensity with same source intensity, I'm waiting wise ass
I told you man……its just gonna frustrate you. They do not have basic understanding. If you present data to them or photos, they will just scoff at it, say their bullshit unfounded piece and name call or laugh. They will never step toe to toe and present their own evidence or photos of anything concrete. Its a losing battle and they can die on their hill for all im concerned. Cant wait to post shots of the glistening insane product we just pulled from our agrobars. Lets just focus on showcasing what leds can do and let them focus on hating or preaching hps.
present you with facts about each tech, you keep denying them and show us purple flowers again, so who has basic understanding and whos not bud ?
Show me where my science is wrong please unread of telling us how happy you are from your agrobars
They dont like “paragraphs”. They dont think science is reality. They dont appreciate data or photos, the buds “look fake” or “like plastic”. Snake hasnt heard of photobleaching…….an industry standard issue nearly any hps experienced grower should be familiar with….especially with 1000w. It wont get better, its just getting worse. Lets just post our dank and what lights it came from.
Sorry bro, we've been over this, light bleaching is heat related, I never bleached my plants from light, I worked with every watt possible from 250 to 1000, if you bleached your plants, you got too close with heat.
When I used cool tubes shit my plants were 10 cm from 400/600w bulbs, still no bleaching, weird huh ?
Agrobar 720s - first run in this room, still dialing and pulled this…

Haters can hate all they want. With the next run here ill make it plain as day what we can achieve w Leds, this stuff here was just getting my feet wet in a new space. But its gonna be my best lab yet.
Your op looks killer I'll give you that
Still, it won't change the facts or science behind each tech.
He basically did. He offered to “explain reality concepts to science people” and says “comparing this on paper vs reality”. Thats basically saying the data and science isnt real.
No, I meant that some data in science people think applys in real life, when it's not.
Like adding intensity, or thinking spectrum maps will make their bud better
Reality show us different
In the battle between science nerds and reality I will choose reality thank you.
Again, snakedope didn't say science isn't reality. Everything else aside, repeating this is only making YOU look bad.
Leave them, they don't like to address data and science, they just like to show purple flowers and shout they are the best !
nice flowers but i'm sure they don't get you high, lol. what strain is that?

yeah, i'm done with the science deniers. i will not ever respond to one of their posts again.
You are the only one who deny science my friend, i told u the science behind those lights, you still think it's not true, keep growing with your walmart lights, science backs them up 😅
and i will suggest that everyone else who genuinely wants to make progress ignore them too.

just don't respond anymore! don't feed the trolls!
Anyone who genuinely wants true knowledge on each tech and it's uses you better keep reading, but ignore people who use led purple flowers as evidence as we all know how they smoke and what they worth haha
I understand you liked his posts. However, not a single fact or figure is correct,
Lol hahaha then counter me instead of wearing us out again
with your BS explanations
and he turned to name calling to fend off any further interaction. The single thing outside of this bollox bubble is that hps buds put a smile of my face. Thought that's not making any soft of statement regarding other bud I have smoked. So is an isolated fact worth nothing.

If you want to pick one thing he said, that you are sure about, I will address it. Anything, except that hps weed made me smile.
You can't adress what I said cuz reality and you are so far apart, if you had any knowledge about this topic you would have said something smarter, but you don't.
So did you miss the chart on cfl lm output? Youre choosing to take it as arrogance when im dissecting the quote and breaking it down. Snake sure posts like he understands the science with the numbers he shares. I was simply fact checking. And i dont care if you no longer address me. How the fuck am I supposed to know he meant “resin producing” when he said “resin plant”. I assumed he meant another category had testing done under cfl he was familiar with. You seem to just be defending someone who multiple people clearly have a hard time understanding.
Just cuz you have a hard time understanding the real numbers and science behind each tech doesn't mean other people too.
I apologize if my thoroughness was somehow perceived as arrogant. I even mentioned trying to find resin plants produced under cfl, didnt seem to turn up anything. Im very curious what you expected instead of what i did?
He expects you to understand I meant resin producing plants which is weed duh that's why we are here, instead of trying to make yourself look smart and finding redwoods growing under CFLs, come on buddy.. even you know you are just like to talk nonsense that is not related to anything.
The only resin related cfl stuff i found seemed to be targeted of course at cannabis and i didnt see anything regarding terpene or cannabinoid production being higher under cfl than anything else.
More then LEDs that's fosure
Maybe your lab tests say otherwise, I'll stick to my smoke tests.
Except the farther away from the source lightbulb the less light the plant will receive.
Yes, the "ppfd" of the sun changes from place to place and even every hour it changes, what doesn't change is the intensity of it, the strength of it.
OGcrown on IG is running a full room using Growers Choice TSL800. I'll be watching his results with those. Suppose to be a direct 1:1 HID replacement LED. Ive not seen any run those yet. I like the Footprint of those LEDS. These are 800W. Also, the Tarantula Vulcan Borg is another im watching from grandmasterLED, its a beast at 1500w.
View attachment 18840365
It can never be a replacement for hid please understand the science behind led and hid, you cannot add up intensity please why you keep fighting such basic concepts that are known for years
If you don't spread the light with LEDs you can throw them away as it's the only advantage they have.
I didn't see that said that. I was not part of that interaction.
As you have already denied, I'm afraid most CFL's are not over 1500Lm. The vast majority used to grow plants on this forum, are actually 1500 and under. Will you need telling this by a third person?
How big is the emitter part of a cfl? it's a linear lamp folded up. A 1500lm is about 12" of T5. Have you seen the little disc in a 1500lm LED? it's about 1.5"
The LED disk is perhaps 20 little dots of extreme output. The 12" is a large area of much weaker output. There is nothing more concentrated about the cfl.
Huh ??? Your diodes make 200 lux, most people don't grow with 20w cfl but with the higher rating ones, go look at Crooked8 chart again, are you blind ? You compare a 1500 lux source to a 200 lux source ? Now we're gonna start comparing surface area of each emitter ? You think if u added another 200 lux source you somehow now have the rate of a 400 lm source ?
I take back what I said about you, your not a nerd, your just dumb.
Not in size or lux. The little gaps between the emitters is all your idea revolves around. I don't think you can actually see what you are talking about though. Or you would see how daft it is, whichever account you post under
Lol the gaps are nothing that matters, their output is what matters, and it's the same friend, realize this, I'll give u a couple of moments.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Told u before, bring any light expert or scientists that say you can add up the intensity with same source intensity, I'm waiting wise ass

present you with facts about each tech, you keep denying them and show us purple flowers again, so who has basic understanding and whos not bud ?
Show me where my science is wrong please unread of telling us how happy you are from your agrobars

Sorry bro, we've been over this, light bleaching is heat related, I never bleached my plants from light, I worked with every watt possible from 250 to 1000, if you bleached your plants, you got too close with heat.
When I used cool tubes shit my plants were 10 cm from 400/600w bulbs, still no bleaching, weird huh ?

Your op looks killer I'll give you that
Still, it won't change the facts or science behind each tech.

No, I meant that some data in science people think applys in real life, when it's not.
Like adding intensity, or thinking spectrum maps will make their bud better
Reality show us different
In the battle between science nerds and reality I will choose reality thank you.

Leave them, they don't like to address data and science, they just like to show purple flowers and shout they are the best !

You are the only one who deny science my friend, i told u the science behind those lights, you still think it's not true, keep growing with your walmart lights, science backs them up 😅

Anyone who genuinely wants true knowledge on each tech and it's uses you better keep reading, but ignore people who use led purple flowers as evidence as we all know how they smoke and what they worth haha

Lol hahaha then counter me instead of wearing us out again
with your BS explanations

You can't adress what I said cuz reality and you are so far apart, if you had any knowledge about this topic you would have said something smarter, but you don't.

Just cuz you have a hard time understanding the real numbers and science behind each tech doesn't mean other people too.

He expects you to understand I meant resin producing plants which is weed duh that's why we are here, instead of trying to make yourself look smart and finding redwoods growing under CFLs, come on buddy.. even you know you are just like to talk nonsense that is not related to anything.

More then LEDs that's fosure
Maybe your lab tests say otherwise, I'll stick to my smoke tests.

Yes, the "ppfd" of the sun changes from place to place and even every hour it changes, what doesn't change is the intensity of it, the strength of it.

It can never be a replacement for hid please understand the science behind led and hid, you cannot add up intensity please why you keep fighting such basic concepts that are known for years
If you don't spread the light with LEDs you can throw them away as it's the only advantage they have.

Huh ??? Your diodes make 200 lux, most people don't grow with 20w cfl but with the higher rating ones, go look at Crooked8 chart again, are you blind ? You compare a 1500 lux source to a 200 lux source ? Now we're gonna start comparing surface area of each emitter ? You think if u added another 200 lux source you somehow now have the rate of a 400 lm source ?
I take back what I said about you, your not a nerd, your just dumb.

Lol the gaps are nothing that matters, their output is what matters, and it's the same friend, realize this, I'll give u a couple of moments.
Literally posted shots of 100% green buds on page 46. But yeah i wont keep trying to explain to ya anymore bro, im just gonna show you.
 

snakedope

Active member
Don't show me pics bro, me and you went down this road before
Show me the science, show me a scientist who claim you can do the things LEDs say they do I'm waiting.
 

greyfader

Well-known member
@greyfader
Are you still running the same PPK design as in the ‘something wicked this way comes’ thread, or have you improved the system again?
the ppk system is just a flow pattern, not a specific build. i have improved or refined the operational ideas behind it.
 
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greyfader

Well-known member
1683709356673.png

Incandescent Bulbs​

An incandescent light bulb contains a tungsten filament that is resistively heated when a current is conducted through it. At temperatures around 2000 K, the filament starts to emit visible light. To prevent the tungsten wire from burning up, the bulb is filled with a gas, usually argon. The heat generated in the filament is transported to the surroundings through radiation, convection, and conduction. An incandescent bulb emits a greater proportion of red light than natural daylight. Emission even extends into the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which wastes energy and reduces the overall efficiency of the bulb.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Don't show me pics bro, me and you went down this road before
Show me the science, show me a scientist who claim you can do the things LEDs say they do I'm waiting.
Here are three scientists who will advocate for Leds for indoor over hps and have almost impossibly detailed data. I highly recommend you look into them.

Bruce Bugbee
Royal Heins
Mitchell Westmoreland
 

snakedope

Active member
Responding to someone who thinks two hps are no more light than one (or thinks the earth is flat) is the definition of stupid. Don't be stupid.
Thinking that someone thinks that putting two lights is no more light is the definition of idiotism, don't be an idiot, read before you post.
I'm sorry if science is new to you, when you put 2 lights you add more light in the space, but if you add same strength source light, the strength of the source won't suddenly double.
3rd grade shit, start getting to know your science 👍
 

snakedope

Active member
Here are three scientists who will advocate for Leds for indoor over hps and have almost impossibly detailed data. I highly recommend you look into them.

Bruce Bugbee
Royal Heins
Mitchell Westmoreland
No need for advocates, show me your science paper that says these concepts are true and work in real life, show me a paper that says that when I put 2 same strength sources I get superman source now, spoiler, don't bother, you won't find one cuz it's not real, never was, never will be.
If you wanna listen to someone say it's real with no back up that's on you, you are no different then 90% of people who do the same, believe in whatever they are being told.
Don't use your eyes and ears and senses, god gave them to you by accident.
 

Corpselover Fat

Active member
View attachment 18840455

Incandescent Bulbs​

An incandescent light bulb contains a tungsten filament that is resistively heated when a current is conducted through it. At temperatures around 2000 K, the filament starts to emit visible light. To prevent the tungsten wire from burning up, the bulb is filled with a gas, usually argon. The heat generated in the filament is transported to the surroundings through radiation, convection, and conduction. An incandescent bulb emits a greater proportion of red light than natural daylight. Emission even extends into the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which wastes energy and reduces the overall efficiency of the bulb.

How about using heat lamps for far red and ir heating? They are more expensive, but would last longer. I dunno.
 
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