Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link?

[aligee]

Is this the stuff I should use, I noticed my label is a different color, can anyone verify this for me, thanks View attachment 283592

that looks like the right one!

 

[Alpha Phase]

that looks like the right one!

OK awesome aligee, much appreciated! I haven't had clone failure in a long time but lost 2 batches in a bubble cloner and this sounds like the next step to try. It's been 5 days using the recipe on the first page of this thread and clones look healthy and no slime so my fingers are crossed. I think I even see a few root bumps so I'm stoked. Can I also use this in a ebb n gro bucket system res? I'd like to keep a sterile res and use this in replace of bleach

 

[aligee]

OK awesome aligee, much appreciated! I haven't had clone failure in a long time but lost 2 batches in a bubble cloner and this sounds like the next step to try. It's been 5 days using the recipe on the first page of this thread and clones look healthy and no slime so my fingers are crossed. I think I even see a few root bumps so I'm stoked. Can I also use this in a ebb n gro bucket system res? I'd like to keep a sterile res and use this in replace of bleach

Yes i dont see why you cant use this to keep your rez sterile i put 7ml of this chlorine solution in my turbokloner every other day with no issues! im getting root nubs in 3-4 days no slime, temps i stopped checking,water is pretty warm too,

 

[buddyboy1953]

A hearty thank you for posting such factual, informative and concise description of successful cloning procedures. Really great material. I've been using tap water forever through nearly forty years of growing and cloning. The addition of chlorine solution from smart, cheap pool chorline is a wonderful tip! Listing to this person, folks. They are thoughtful and inventive. And cleanliness is as critical as the author emphisizes.
Excellent work!

 

[Alpha Phase]

Just wanted to say thanks for the OP of this thread. I never had a problem cloning until i moved and then all hell broke loose and was losing tons of cuttings... I haven't lost a cut since I started throwing the shock into the cloner. Even mothers that had complete nute lock out and woody stems, pretty much those non salvagable plants that usually get thrown out.. Growing roots in 4-5 days tops! Freaking miracle this thread is. Started using it in my 30 gallon res for ebb n grow and will not look back. Squeaky clean, no slime with adding 0.05g per 5 gallons of water (.2 grams for 20 gallons). So thanks again OP, you're a life saver, I got too many clones now that I don't know what to do with lol, it'll be nice not having to take extra cuts in case some fail. That's a thing of the past.

 

[CoCoColaClassic]

This winter decrease is likely due to your water not staying warm enough....rather than low humidity. Leave your pump on 24/7 to heat up the water. If you pump wont do it new (not used) aquarium heater set to 78 into you rez. The goal is 80 - 88 in a sterile cloner.

__________________
Canna Coco & Aqua
EZ-Clone w/ Permaclone collars
T5 veg, HPS Bloom
Strains:
Northern Lights (Sensi)
Chocolope (DNA)
Dutch Cheese (DP)

 

[Ymir]

Can anybody recommend a chlorine tester that is simple to use and accurate? I just setup after cleaning everything, tubes and all. I filled my res with 40 gallons and setup my aquarium heater to 68 degrees in preparation for transplant the next day or so.

The aquarium heater isn't working right, it ignored my setting of 68 degrees and heated my water up to 90 and I didn't notice for 2 days. So the heater itself already had slime growing on it (I used a little bit more than the recommended dosage of chlorine so now I feel like I need to be using more, but don't want to kill my plants. My water doesn't have any chlorine to begin-with, and without a way of testing I don't want to start throwing in more every 3 days and end up killing them.

 

[Ymir]

So I found a nice calculator on this site. I thought I read somewhere that the dosage mentioned in the original post = 1ppm chlorine. This calculator confirmed that and I should be able to safely double/triple this dosage if I feel I'm still having issues since drinking water can have up to 4ppm. Will report back if I kill anything

 

[dutchcrunch]

To the idiot who replied to this thread saying "Just stick you cuttings in dirt, bang roots in a couple days" you obviously do not use a cloning machine. Well I do and have done so for 10+ years. And always had 100% success rate in cuttings rooting..ALWAYS. I recently moved to a big piece of land (fruits of my labors) and guess what we have a well! Well, (pun intended) my first try at cloning from my mothers (I have had the same healthy, vigorous, robust mothers for years) I had 4 cuttings not root & develop a slime on the stem & then become mushy after 2 weeks. Normally my cuttings always rooted within 5-7 days max, I had been on city water! This last turn I took 40+ fresh, awesome, dark green cuttings & only 2 rooted! I almost pulled my hair out thinking "have my genetics gotten tired?" "are my mother plants diseased?" ...Thank you for this thread, I just ordered a bag of pool shock & I am sure this will work...Bravo to the author of this thread!

 

[queequeg152]

Can anybody recommend a chlorine tester that is simple to use and accurate? I just setup after cleaning everything, tubes and all. I filled my res with 40 gallons and setup my aquarium heater to 68 degrees in preparation for transplant the next day or so.

The aquarium heater isn't working right, it ignored my setting of 68 degrees and heated my water up to 90 and I didn't notice for 2 days. So the heater itself already had slime growing on it (I used a little bit more than the recommended dosage of chlorine so now I feel like I need to be using more, but don't want to kill my plants. My water doesn't have any chlorine to begin-with, and without a way of testing I don't want to start throwing in more every 3 days and end up killing them.

fas dpd titration. this is what you want.

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-K-1515...e=UTF8&qid=1426056722&sr=8-2&keywords=fas+dpd

if you search for my name and fas dpd you will find some post i made a while back about this.

 

[who dat is]

fas dpd titration. this is what you want.

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-K-1515...e=UTF8&qid=1426056722&sr=8-2&keywords=fas+dpd

if you search for my name and fas dpd you will find some post i made a while back about this.

Would you mind posting it again? I couldn't find it and would like to hear more about this. Thanks

 

[queequeg152]

Would you mind posting it again? I couldn't find it and would like to hear more about this. Thanks

yea my apologies, i couldnt find it either.

here:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]what is GM ZONE made of? i looked up their msds a while back but none of the ingrediants were listed, meaning they are not considered a serious hazard.

link:
http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-K-1515-...rds=taylor+DPD

taylor products are legit, in the pool community at least. you can get refill reagents should you loose one, or run out, at any warehouse pool supply place. Leslie pools do not cary taylor products... they carry something different. i do not think the refill reagents from leslies are compatable.

there are cheaper test kits for sure... as low as 10 bucks infact. but this is an FAS DPD test... it will read well over 10ppm, to 50 ppm infact, though i have never gone that heigh to verify... its also ALOT easier to read... you basically add the titrant to the solution you prepair and add up the drops untill the equivalence point is reached, where after the solution turns perfectly clear.

the reg DPD kits... they turn shades of yellow and pink and all kinds of shit from what i remember. i haven't used one in years and years... but i recall them being stupid as fuck.

highly reccomend the fas dpd...

regarding chlorine. i recommend either calcium hypochlorite or bleach solution. Dichlor and trichlor disassociate yielding cyanuric acid as well as HClO, which you do not need. it also costs marginally more.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]hm. no such "kit" exists as far as i know. i know what you are saying tho. like a standard testing procedure backed up by the EPA or some such thing.

the taylor reagent kits are the most popular kits with the pool folks. the reagents are all replaceable... the instructions are heavily waterproofed, its just a nice put together kit. the one i used and still use for years now is the 2006. its like 70 bucks new maby more now... but you dont need 90% of what it includes. hadness reagents, cyanuric acid, acid demand and ph testers etc.

DPD based reagents are the standard means to test chlorine. there ARE standards for particular applications like in waste water treatment systems. but this is usually with respect to equipment specifications. i cannot comment on other industries, as water and waste water treatment are the only ones i have firsthand experience with.


HAACH and other companies provide colorimetric chlorine analyzers and all sorts of expensive fun equipment for that task. far and away over kill for this task. if you want steady state chlorine dosing, just get a solenoid pump. hell even a syringe pump would work.

there are some other means to monitor chlorine levels, such as the ampeometric sensors(ORP), but they are problematic for a number of reasons. also expensive, and more suited for online monitoring of a critical process like an aeration basin or lagoon or some such thing.

TLDR

just get that kit i linked. taylor products are pretty much the standard the whole pool community recommends.[/FONT]

 

[queequeg152]

Would you mind posting it again? I couldn't find it and would like to hear more about this. Thanks

taken out of context these quots must not make a whole lot of sense... so here is the thread.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=297377

if youve any questions regarding chlorine sanitation, just ask. id like to think im knowledgeable in this area.

 

[luxcultivars]

Does anyone know: if you add 1 oz of shock solution per 5 gallons as described on page 1, how many ppms does that end up being of chlorine? What is the approx ppm after 3 days?

 

[queequeg152]

Does anyone know: if you add 1 oz of shock solution per 5 gallons as described on page 1, how many ppms does that end up being of chlorine? What is the approx ppm after 3 days?

regarding calculations of free chlorine, just use the online calculators. though keep in mind that ph has a great effect on free chlorine.

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/chlorined3.cgi?submit=Entry

its impossible to say what the residual chlorine value would be in three days... as this all depends on a shit load of variables.

you need a test kit find free chlorine concentrations.

 

[DEATH BY SNUSNU]

I take a peat plug and make 3 to 4 cubes by chopping with scissors , saves money and cuts down on root sign time. Make cut dip in honey , molasses or Agave nectar. Crowd em into sandwich saver or tuperware high humid= 100% breach 8days. No Electricity no gel. 4 clones per peat cube......not bad been working for a good while. Gels are the greatest snake oil in the game for years! Off that voodoo! Oh yeah the peat plugs are salvageable to re use or for mulching after a run.

 

[luxcultivars]

regarding calculations of free chlorine, just use the online calculators. though keep in mind that ph has a great effect on free chlorine.

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/chlorined3.cgi?submit=Entry

its impossible to say what the residual chlorine value would be in three days... as this all depends on a shit load of variables.

you need a test kit find free chlorine concentrations.

Thanks man. Test kit ordered, I was just hoping somebody had one already and could give me a ballpark. I have zero idea what concentration of calcium hypochlorite results from using the pool shock cloner formula or stock solution as provided here, so the calculator isn't going to help me much unless I know that.

 

[queequeg152]

Thanks man. Test kit ordered, I was just hoping somebody had one already and could give me a ballpark. I have zero idea what concentration of calcium hypochlorite results from using the pool shock cloner formula or stock solution as provided here, so the calculator isn't going to help me much unless I know that.

i just tried the calculator, and im getting .03 grams per 5 gallons per 1mg/l chlorine.

do you know the % availability of your particular brand of calcium hypo?

it ranges from like 60-80% usually.

dichlor and trichlor are different.

 

[DoomsDay]

I think you guys may need to step back for a second and consider something... throwing all of this money in testers and whatnot for pool supplies, grab a proper pH pen and that's it. I water directly from a well with some HARD fucking water, and I can say cloning became 1000 times easier when I stopped over thinking it.

Water, some form of material to root into, and SMALL amounts of light are all that's needed.
Personally have found root riot cubes to be the best for my situation, fuck cloning gel as mentioned above, I picked up rooting powder at ace hardware for a buck a jar and it gives me 95 to 100% success for 2 years now.

Get the trays with the squares in them that the root riot cubes recess into, as well as 5he giant open rectangle tray meant to be filled with water to water the cuts.

Place perlite in big watering tray, water down with pH water, then place cloning tray over it, clones in cubes, and dome with both vents fully open and the base of the dome NOT fully seated, but instead slightly askew to allow air in through the bottom.

No more than a single 28 watt t8 per 50 clone tray, or 4' 53 watt t5 per 3 trays.

Any questions feel free to pm me or ask here.

Btw, biting the bullet on a good pH meter now will only save you so many headaches later. Best 100 bucks spent hands down.

 

[queequeg152]

I think you guys may need to step back for a second and consider something... throwing all of this money in testers and whatnot for pool supplies, grab a proper pH pen and that's it. I water directly from a well with some HARD fucking water, and I can say cloning became 1000 times easier when I stopped over thinking it.

Water, some form of material to root into, and SMALL amounts of light are all that's needed.
Personally have found root riot cubes to be the best for my situation, fuck cloning gel as mentioned above, I picked up rooting powder at ace hardware for a buck a jar and it gives me 95 to 100% success for 2 years now.

Get the trays with the squares in them that the root riot cubes recess into, as well as 5he giant open rectangle tray meant to be filled with water to water the cuts.

Place perlite in big watering tray, water down with pH water, then place cloning tray over it, clones in cubes, and dome with both vents fully open and the base of the dome NOT fully seated, but instead slightly askew to allow air in through the bottom.

No more than a single 28 watt t8 per 50 clone tray, or 4' 53 watt t5 per 3 trays.

Any questions feel free to pm me or ask here.

Btw, biting the bullet on a good pH meter now will only save you so many headaches later. Best 100 bucks spent hands down.

im inclined to agree with respect to rooting in a sterile medium rather than a hydro setup.
but sanitation of growing systems is a very common practice, and infact alot simpler than some of the other suggestions im always seeing on these forums... adding this and that organic product, and chilling the water etc.
sanitation is the only way to assure things like drippers and sediment filters do not clog in these recirculating systems. chemical sanitation, chlorine or otherwise, is a widely used in commercial greenhouse operations.

yes, the above 20 dollar testing kit is infact quite a bit more expensive than your average walmart spa chlorine testing kit, however i think the expense is warranted given how much easier the fas dpd testing is compared to colorimetric testing... matching shades of yellow and orange is fucking stupid.
leave that sort of test to the computerized analyzers.

other Fas dpd kits are cheaper initially, but reagents cost an outrageous sum. the taylor system uses a little jar of poweder and a scooper... the jar of powder, when i still lived with my mom, lasted the entire summer and then some. this is testing water several times a week. there are probably 100 tests give or take... in one of these jars. a new jar of reagent is like 7 or 8 bucks at the pool store.

regarding ph meters... its an area ive some appreciable knowledge in. imo digital ph meters are not warranted unless you are trying to measure soil slurries or some such thing thats colored in such a way that the litmus papers will not work.
i purchased a bench top meter some years ago, and use it only do mix peat lite nowadays. litmus paper is more than accurate enough.

most hydro company ph meters are garbage to start with.... and charge outrageous sums for replacement electrodes.
your hundred bucks is far better spent on a used bench top meter like mine. i think my accumet meter was like 60 bucks... a new gel electrode (single junction, no thermocouple) is like 40 dollars, and last around a year.

you can get around needing costly ATC probes or integrated ATC ph electrodes by allowing your samples and calibration solutions to equilibrate to room temp before calibrating and measuring a sample.