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Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

breker

Member
If you have a 70w ballast, then you need a compatible 70w lamp. See the label on the device.

Both Philips & GE make 70w CMH in various configurations. I have no idea as to their suitability for horticulture. Google "70w CMH".

Thanks for Your response.

Yes, i know that power of lamp must be the same as psu.
I am asking about certain type of power supply made by GIB. They mark it as semi electronic and suitable for both HPS and MH, but no CMH mentioned.

I suppose it wont work correctly.
 

Cannologist

New member
Google Philips CDM860/V/O/4K/EA. Be aware that they're avail in both BT37 & the larger BT56 envelopes. They require old school transformer based MH ballasts. Opinions as to their usefulness seem to vary quite a bit.


This doesn't say anything about vertical or horizontal?
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-421784-CDM860-AllStart-Halide/dp/B00D4481BE#productDetails

What it the difference between the BT37 and BT56 envelope?


Will 3 x 860w draw 2580W, or will they pull more in regards to ballast efficiency? (I've read something about this, but I never get the hang of it) Or will they draw at much as 3000w since the ballasts are 1000w each?

I've only got 3000w to spend in total...
 

e_24

Active member
I seem to visually see more red in the ed28 bulb and more blue in the ed37.


I'm not running back to hps any time aoon, but I have noticed a decline in bud size. Density is there just not size. Could be due my planter size and lack of plant size this time round.
 

e_24

Active member
This doesn't say anything about vertical or horizontal?
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-421784-CDM860-AllStart-Halide/dp/B00D4481BE#productDetails

What it the difference between the BT37 and BT56 envelope?


Will 3 x 860w draw 2580W, or will they pull more in regards to ballast efficiency? (I've read something about this, but I never get the hang of it) Or will they draw at much as 3000w since the ballasts are 1000w each?

I've only got 3000w to spend in total...


What I'm noticing between my two 330w bulbs bulbs is the smaller envelope has my room at least 3 degrees warmer the larger envelope just seems to stay cooler.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
This doesn't say anything about vertical or horizontal?
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-421784-CDM860-AllStart-Halide/dp/B00D4481BE#productDetails

What it the difference between the BT37 and BT56 envelope?


Will 3 x 860w draw 2580W, or will they pull more in regards to ballast efficiency? (I've read something about this, but I never get the hang of it) Or will they draw at much as 3000w since the ballasts are 1000w each?

I've only got 3000w to spend in total...

The V designation in the part # indicates vert operation only. A U designation would indicate universal burn position.

BT56 lamps are considerably larger than ED37 lamps.

The lamp is the load, the current limiting device. Ballast inefficiency is in addition to that. My 1000w system draws 1140w at the receptacle even though the lamp only pulls 1000, the rest being lost to inefficiency. It's not a very efficient ballast. An 860 would be propotionately less, 860x1.14, ~980w at the receptacle.

Capiche?
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for Your response.

Yes, i know that power of lamp must be the same as psu.
I am asking about certain type of power supply made by GIB. They mark it as semi electronic and suitable for both HPS and MH, but no CMH mentioned.

I suppose it wont work correctly.

I honestly can't say for sure. If their Pro-v-t 100w ballast is the same construction as their 1000w, pictured at their site, then Philips CDM should work. Their 1000w appears to be a simple core & coil ballast, which is what Philips CDM lamps require. The internals of the others are obscured by the casing.

I suggest contacting GIB, send them the spec sheet of the lamp you want to use.

http://www.gib-lighting.de/pro-v-t.64.html
 
the 860 will only draw what it needs and the mag ballast will add about 10% to what it takes in losses.

you should be well under 3000w. but you might consider a UPS. you are gonna surge over 3KW at turn on.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
the 860 will only draw what it needs and the mag ballast will add about 10% to what it takes in losses.

you should be well under 3000w. but you might consider a UPS. you are gonna surge over 3KW at turn on.

If a grower is observing the 80% continuous load rule, the hardware will handle the momentary start up surge. That can be eased enormously with staggered startup even at very short intervals.
 

Ericos

Member
Just got in my adapters, be rocking mogul 315s with the pgz18 agro for my mixed spectrum cmh run with 8 fixtures.


Bye bye to the rest of these hps's the mogul 315 are what's with now.
 

flat9

Member
If a grower is observing the 80% continuous load rule, the hardware will handle the momentary start up surge. That can be eased enormously with staggered startup even at very short intervals.

Think most light controllers if you're using one, by the way, stagger the start up anyway.
 

lubby1010

New member
If the retro white CMH can use both a pulse start MH ballast and an HPS ballast. Can an HPS bulb work on a pulse start MH ballast? Specifically for 150 watts or lower.
 

breker

Member
I honestly can't say for sure. If their Pro-v-t 100w ballast is the same construction as their 1000w, pictured at their site, then Philips CDM should work. Their 1000w appears to be a simple core & coil ballast, which is what Philips CDM lamps require. The internals of the others are obscured by the casing.

I suggest contacting GIB, send them the spec sheet of the lamp you want to use.

http://www.gib-lighting.de/pro-v-t.64.html

Thanks for input.

Actually i have sent them the email with this question but noone answered so far.
All the guts i can see through holes in this 100-watter case is couple of lo-watt resistors, capacitor or thermistor and an six legged IC or something like this. :dunno:
 

Cannologist

New member
the 860 will only draw what it needs and the mag ballast will add about 10% to what it takes in losses.

you should be well under 3000w. but you might consider a UPS. you are gonna surge over 3KW at turn on.


My total of 3000w includes the extraction fan and whatnot as well. But if what LargePrime says is correct, I will be within a total of 3 x 860w x 10% = 2838W. With an extraction fan pulling 100-200W, I will still pull around 3000w continuously... will I be pushing my limits and safety?
Perhaps I should stay on the safe side and only use 2 x 860 + an old 400w hps I've got laying around... ? Or maybe use a 315W CMH, to see the difference..

I have an 16A circuit of 230+V = 3680W. Will the start-up surge pull more than this? I'm thinking it would be ok to use full capacity of the circut for a start-up?
If not, I can use two timers and have the bulbs firing up a few minutes apart?
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I think that 16a circuits are common in Europe.

Start-up should be fine - the spike is fast enough that the breaker will never notice it.

Yes, the full capacity of the circuit is usable for short-term loads (under 3 hours).
 
ok, but circuit ratings are to protect the wiring, right?
So does the EU have different wire sizes that would correspond to a 16A circuit? And if so, what are the Common wire sizes? Over here 14 and 12 gauge are most common, corresponding, respectively to 15 and 20A circuits. Of course bigger, and much bigger exsist, and probably there is at least one run of 10 or 8 in every house.

I thought wire gauge is pretty international? Enlighten me.
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Sort of.

Wire ampacity is determined by the insulation (or lack of) and whether or not the conductor is in some type of raceway or in "free air", all determined by how hot the insulation can get without degrading. There are substantial differences in the ratings of the same size wire with different types of insulation. For instance, a #8 TW-insulated wire is rated at 40 amps, but a #8 THHN-insulated wire is rated for 55 amps.

The "awg" after the wire gauge number stands for "American Wire Gauge", and I believe (never done any work there, but just from reading) that Europe uses metric wire sizing. Aside from the potential slight differences in wire diameter that may result from that, there is also the fact that the most popular wire sizes for residential branch circuits (14,12,10) are all substantially de-rated from what the wire could theoretically carry. If you look at an NEC wiring table, depending on the type of insulation, #14 is rated at 20-25 amps, #12 is rated at 25-30 amps, and #10 is rated at 30-40 amps. However, each of these ratings is followed by an obelisk that indicates that there is a regulation that supersedes the published ratings and limits the allowable amperage to 15, 20, and 30, respectively.

There are numerous rules that impact wire ratings, including the number of conductors in the conduit or cable bundle, the ambient temperature, and the length of the run.
 
ya, but a 16A breaker? even in the EU they are 5, 10, 15 etc.?
google cant even find a 16A breaker.

and then there they are. 6A, 16A, and 32A. ima shut up now
 

Ericos

Member
So I have a a cross I made, cave monster, that bleeds red and turns a nice purpling in flower without lowering temps. I post some more info on the strain forums.

Well doing some more digging found out why cmh and plasma may be a preferred light source for certain phenos/strains.

Research has established that white light blending will effectively cover the mid 500Nm and enhance the development of anthocyanin. This will occur because there is peak anthocyanin production at about 540Nm and the cellular pH of the fluids in the plant will also be a contributor but that's genetically regulated for the most part.

So it seems for those strains with noticeable levels of anthocyanin would be maximized by the use of cmh or plasma over conventional hps and also help there true medicanal effect which is another topic on anthocyanin another time. Anthocyanin also serves as sunscreen protecting from photo inhibition or highlight stress. A lot of science when it comes to these chlorophyll, carontoids, xanophylls, and anthocyanin flavanoids. cmh may be the key but just my thoughts.
 

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