Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Jhhnn]

Easy, guys. It's just lights, right?

I've never used the 315, cuz I'm a retired on a fixed income cheapskate who hasn't found the right deal.

This is *not* the deal I'm looking for, particularly with a high price tag & a load of malarkey-

http://denver.craigslist.org/grq/4688611226.html

"Yields the same as a 1000w set up."

I really don't think so.

I haven't seen anybody here make that kind of claim.

 

[tenthirty]

They definitely seem great on paper, but all the 315W setups I found when I looked last were 220V, expensive, and not air-coolable without significant modification. Are there any new models out that are less than $500, run @ 120V, and easily compatible with an air-cooled hood?

Thanks!

Ya, I didn't say it would work right out of the box.
Swapping connectors in a cool tube to match the agro bulb is really pretty trivial.
The most difficult part is knowing the part numbers to buy off of ebay for considerably less than $500.00, though all the ballasts I've seen are 220v......sorry.

It really is worth it to go with a full and balanced spectrum of light. THe 315 is the easiest route that I know of and it is the top of the heap right now IMHO.

If you could cool it in that small space.......

 

[tenthirty]

"Yields the same as a 1000w set up."

2 of the Cycloptics systems do...... and then some.

 

[LargePrime]

They definitely seem great on paper, but all the 315W setups I found when I looked last were 220V, expensive, and not air-coolable without significant modification. Are there any new models out that are less than $500, run @ 120V, and easily compatible with an air-cooled hood?

Thanks!

Ya, I didn't say it would work right out of the box.
Swapping connectors in a cool tube to match the agro bulb is really pretty trivial.
The most difficult part is knowing the part numbers to buy off of ebay for considerably less than $500.00, though all the ballasts I've seen are 220v......sorry.

It really is worth it to go with a full and balanced spectrum of light. THe 315 is the easiest route that I know of and it is the top of the heap right now IMHO.

If you could cool it in that small space.......

Advance Tech Lighting setup is 220$ right? Tom will wire it up to do whatever you need.

I don't really think you need that much cooling. Its 315W. half a 600W, and you can dim to ~156W if you need cooler.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ya, I didn't say it would work right out of the box.
Swapping connectors in a cool tube to match the agro bulb is really pretty trivial.
The most difficult part is knowing the part numbers to buy off of ebay for considerably less than $500.00, though all the ballasts I've seen are 220v......sorry.

It really is worth it to go with a full and balanced spectrum of light. THe 315 is the easiest route that I know of and it is the top of the heap right now IMHO.

If you could cool it in that small space.......

Dunno why you say the 315 is the easiest unless you're talking about the high dollar turnkey models. It's def not the cheapest.

Although not as efficient, Philips 330W really is easy. Switchable magnetic ballast, choice of hoods- done. For the cheapest, an open MH ballast kit & a vert bulb.

Either way is full spectrum light at a fraction of the cost of the best commercial deals on a 315 system.

Just sayin'.

 

[Jhhnn]

Advance Tech Lighting setup is 220$ right? Tom will wire it up to do whatever you need.

I don't really think you need that much cooling. Its 315W. half a 600W, and you can dim to ~156W if you need cooler.

Add $40 or so for the voltage converter, I think. They're not 100% efficient, either.

 

[LargePrime]

Add $40 or so for the voltage converter, I think. They're not 100% efficient, either.

And 400-500W setups are ~25$, less wholesale. not that 220 is hard to run.

Anyway, they cant be less efficient than a 400W mag ballast...

 

[Drek]

I will not "fight" about this.

Lol. OK?........it'll be ok little buddy...

Don't get your panties in a twist.

Rives, I think Largeprime is attempting to come to your rescue, by really, really swearing lots and getting in a really really poopy mood.

See guys? This is what lighting *obsession* does to people. Largeprime is a perfect example. When the next magical solution hits the market, largeprime will be swearing at someone else on the internet. Run for the hills, largeprime is coming, with his gang of 315 super flux capacitors....

Dude, I work with all kinds of electrical and electronics. Electronic devices make sense to me, I build them from scratch. Do you? I knew how to wire up the 315, probably before you even knew what it was. I love the 315, just not as much as you do...because I work around all kinds of electrical machines, electronics, etc...it doesn't really tend to impress as much as say......Einstein's theory of relativity, now that is impressive.

A CMH bulb > running on an electronic ballast?

I didn't even give your previous reply a second look, as it's too early in the morning and I need a coffee. Yawn.

Perfectly awesome results from a Retro CDM....and NOT because of the lighting, or not entirely due to...

 

[beta]

.

 

[Drek]

Anyone have experience with those?

Seriously, thanks a bunch for all the advice, everyone! I've vegged but never flowered under full spectrum and I'm determined to make it work this time around.

It's the only way to go. CDM spectrum(any of them > 3-4k) is good spectrum/lamp for single lamp use.

I wouldn't use any other ballast for the 315w, other than the Philips ballast designed to work with that lamp.

http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4bt/4/412066/e-vision_medium_wattage_210-315w_412066_ffs_aen.pdf

 

[HorseBadoritiz]

This sounds like a really interesting option - I'm not opposed to DIY, but I definitely prefer to leave electrical to the professionals. 70W less heat (as opposed to the 400W CMH) probably wouldn't hurt in her small space, either.

It's the one that runs on a 250W MH magnetic ballast, right? Does it use a mogul socket or some proprietary thing? Will a regular Hydrofarm ballast (my cooltube is already wired with their connector) work? Are they open fixture rated? What's the bulb part number so I can be sure I'm getting the right one?

I'm still interested in the 315W too, if I can find a cost effective setup that doesn't require too much electrical work. I found this 315W digi ballast on eBay, seems like a good deal but I don't want a cheap-o fire starter either.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-120V-240V-315W-CMH-ceramic-metal-halide-digital-ballast-/281451193708

Anyone have experience with those?

Seriously, thanks a bunch for all the advice, everyone! I've vegged but never flowered under full spectrum and I'm determined to make it work this time around.

Hay Beta! I've used the Philips CDM330, and compared to their 400W CMH Retro, was less than impressed with it for growing. It runs off a 400W magnetic MH. It's minimally cooler than a 400. The emitted light is more of an HPS, yellowish hue, than the retro bright, blinding white. I get better trich production from Sunmaster Extra Blue MH's.

I ordered from Advanced, and Tom told me that the greater amount of red was better for flowering, but I didn't see that happen. It also took about 2 months to get, cos apparently they need to be burned in (which Tom did), and there is a pretty large failure rate, IDK? And, they aren't inexpensive either.

It is not open fixture rated, though I ran it bare vertically in a wire cage, and didn't have a problem.

On that used ballast, after adding in shipping, bulb, holder, etc... makes Advanced's deal look pretty good to me.

Just my 2¢, LOL!

 

[rives]

Rives, I think Largeprime is attempting to come to your rescue, by really, really swearing lots and getting in a really really poopy mood.

Oh, I doubt that LP thinks that I have any need of "rescuing". It's far more likely that he has just gotten tired of your dreck.

Your premise is absurd and based on nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion - you admittedly have no experience with the 315. The idea that a lamp designed to save energy in industrial applications by retrofitting into existing fixtures is "just as good" as a lamp using similar technology but designed from a clean sheet of paper and using entirely different operating parameters is foolish. If that were the case, then every grower using a horticulture-optimized lamp should be using the cheaper industrial version because they are based on the same technology and are far cheaper. Even within the 315 family, the Agro has a tangible advantage over the standard 930.

Whether or not the 315 is worth the extra money and effort is an individual choice. There are many other cheaper options, and they will almost all grow pretty damn good pot. However, having an electrical background myself as well as 3+ decades of indoor growing, I've never found the combination of spectrum, power efficiency, and easily-controllable heat that the 315 offers. If someone can't afford it, doesn't want to monkey with adapting their hardware over, or for whatever reason decides to go a different direction, fine.

However, declaring that other options are equivalent without having used the lamp is simply talking out your ass.

 

[Drek]

No one said that the 315 wasn't their latest tech, or that mag circuits were more efficient than electronic circuits. Mag circuits have pro's over electronics, and visa versa. Pro's and con's...pro's and con's.

It's comments like these, that started this nonsense:

Are two 150W Elites better than a 315? Or 2 35W better than a 75W Elites?
Nope, and I suggest it is because they are in the same family.

But 2@ 315W are sure as shit better than an 860W, while using 2/3 the power and lasting years longer on 5 year guaranteed ballasts.

CDM spectrum's look pretty similar across the board in their temperatures, electronic or not, and they've pretty much all demonstrated that in their results, give or take. Anyone else here gotten great results with a non-electronic CDM?

I'm the biggest fan of the 315, it's some amazing little tech. However, spectrally - non Agro 4k elite spectra, looks pretty similar to other CDM lamps. CDM has family characteristics in the juice in the arc and the arc itself, I love my 400 Retro spectra...and I like the reliability of the mag ballast. It'll fire after 15 yrs...no prob.

...and just to let you know, the choice of this nickname, has nothing to do with it's meaning. But thanks for using that, anyway...

No, I don't know anything about the 315, or CDM's in general...

 

[the gnome]

perspective is needed sometimes.
I remember the last few years having switched over from hps in bloom to Mh.
I dealt with all kinds of *verbal abuse* from disbelievers lol.
what I thought of is 90% of hardcore disbelievers never ran a fuggin MH in bloom...EVER.
having never tried it how could they possibly say Mh will never work as good as they're super HPS...
i

 

[Drek]

I fully agree with that!

 

[Jhhnn]

And 400-500W setups are ~25$, less wholesale. not that 220 is hard to run.

Anyway, they cant be less efficient than a 400W mag ballast...

Just saying that there's some loss in the conversion process, given that the converter is a transformer. It has to offset the efficiency of the 315 electronic ballast to some degree or another. How much would need to be measured & calculated in actual use.

Might be a near wash for all I know. No argument with the 315 system probably being the most efficient HID light source when operated at 200-277v. That was the whole point of its development.

 

[Drek]

No argument with the 315 system probably being the most efficient HID light source when operated at 200-277v. That was the whole point of its development.

Indeed..

 

[LargePrime]

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com...rColor-CDM-Elite-Mogul-Base-Lamp-Brochure.pdf

This compares the various Philips Tech.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/pdfs/philips/philips-mastercolor-cdm-elite-mw-lighting-system.pdf

This shows how Philips thinks the CDM bulbs are inferior to the Elites
http://www.elightbulbs.com/pdfs/philips/philips-mastercolor-cdm-elite-mw-lighting-system.pdf

 

[rives]

http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com...rColor-CDM-Elite-Mogul-Base-Lamp-Brochure.pdf

This compares the various Philips Tech.

Good find, I hadn't seen this brochure before.

*edit - whoops, I lied. Guess what was in my CDM Elite file when I went to save this one?

 

[Drek]

This shows how Philips thinks the CDM bulbs are inferior to the Elites

No one said that the Elite CDM's weren't more efficient, just that they aren't the only 3-4k solution that will work.