Did you read that somewhere or contact Philips directly?
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Did you read that somewhere or contact Philips directly?
Okay, this is what I dug up on the MASTERcolours/Agro/Greenpower http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...halide/mastercolour-cdm-t-elite-mw/21299/cat/ The 930(3000k) is red dom, while the 942(4200k) is blue dom.
The 315w 942 (not 930) is available with E37 base. Hope this clears up some confusion.
The 315w 942 (not 930) is available with E37 base. Hope this clears up some confusion.
Rives has pointed out the way Philips labels their Kelvin ratings with a 9 in front of the Kelvin Number on previous pages. I understand that.
The confusion for me lies in names, boxes, and labeling. What makes an Agro lamp an Agro? Separate from regular 930's. Some sites don't even mention the word Agro. Just Master Color Elites 3100k. And then show the 930 Box for the picture of the product.
Only Cycloptics seems to be selling the Green Power Lamp. It has it's own box clearly labeled Green Power. https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=44419&pictureid=1147647
Here's a quote from their site.
The only reason I even care is economics. The Green Power Lamp sells for $120 and the confusingly labeled 930/942/Agro lamps sell for $70-$100 depending on the site.
The old Agro's 901575 SKU's and their links tend to lead to the new Green Power 415216 SKU's. Even though the products PDF's that the Green Powers SKU is linked to is labeled Mastercolor CDM-T Elite 315W T12 CL Agro P.
I'm making it more complicated than it is I'm sure. I just want to make sure of what I'm buying.
No THEY ARE making it complicated. Cycloptics and DNA are scammers. Greenpower is a red dominate spectrum for $50 more. You can get the same Mastercolour Elite Agro whatchamacallits for much cheaper as you said. Forget the names and go by price and specs. I want more red, so I'll get whatever the cheaper 3000k is.
Just carefully read my post on page 384 (#5775), it list all variations currently available.
As for Agro/Greenpower, like I already said - they share the same product number, so I can't see how they are different:
Agro product sheet product #415216
Green Power product sheet product #415216
LargePrime
Member
This cannot be true.
If so, how would one order a case of either one, if Philips own product codes are the exact same for each lamp?
As rives et. al. said, they are the same as the agro. my Agros are old stock, (may 2013) and they say "green power" on the side of the base of the lamp.
When I spoke to Tom at ATL he said;
They are the same lamp. It is all marketing. The purpose of the agro/green power was supplemental green house lighting. These lamps trick the crops into thinking its summer while early in spring and late in fall and later into the night and earlier in the morning.
The Agro/green power shifted spectrum red and reduced blue to get better power efficiency and PPF. (red umol are cheaper in power than blue) In its role as SUPPLEMENTAL GREENHOUSE LIGHTING that makes sense. As the ONLY lighting for an indoor grow that is not ideal. He suggests the mogul base 315W bulb he recommends is actually better than the Agro for our purposes. Also he does not like PGZ bases, much preferring the mogul base. Also He suggests that the Agro/GreenPower has superior UV blocking to his recommended bulb, which is bad for indoor grows, but great if you have people working in your greenhouse all day. This was pointed out by redclover in #5810. Tom told me he would put that vid up after our chat. He did not, however, post the corresponding lack of UV block on his recommended bulb. As redclover also points out.
His recommended bulb. http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...stercolor-cdm-elite-mw-mogul-base/67292/cat/#
I present these thoughts for our dissection.
I think we would like to understand better:
How the Mogul Base is different from the PGZ. And how does that effect us.
Why the mogul base bulbs have a lower life 20000H ( in the docs.)
If there is any difference in the UV coating, as tom says.
ALSO
Is it time for a new thread yet? It seems a lot of the info in the last few pages of posts has been gone over before several times. its just very hard to find in a 5800 post thread.
Can we hack all this info together into one post and start a new thread?
Not all PGZ bulbs are the same, PGZ18 are different from PGZX18.
They have slightly different characteristics due to physical difference (double vs single jacket).
The PGZX18 bulbs are rated at ~20,000 hours, PGZ18 are rated at ~30,000 hours.
As for UV, i'm guessing that PGZX18 bulbs have lower UV output due to the double jacket (makes sense, they also have slightly lower lumen output).
It is a ton of misinformation and confusing marketing. I agree on the CMH bulb/ballast info thread.
He seems more concerned with Socket Type, Physical construction of the Lamp, and how it interacts with reflectors etc, than the light output/spectrum. And also making it easier on his customers, trying to get as close too plug n play as possible.
That's just my opinion though. And I'm not saying it's bad. He's very practical. His way is easier. But if you can overcome a few DIY hurdles and source some PGX18 sockets then you can have more options. I just don't want to be limited to the 942's. Once again just my opinion. He's very knowledgeable. Maybe I'm wrong.
I appreciate all replys. I understand the Agro/Green Power situation more clearly now.
i think thats a great idea, this thread should remain a sticky but there are simply so many pages to weed thru to get at current information....
maybe rives or a mod for this section can help us out with making the new thread a sticky also....
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LargePrime
Member
How does the 860W compare to the 315W in spectrum?I'm just sticking with my 860w for now
What ballast do you use? What reflector?
Have you already wrote this up?
Great spectrum, 95 CRI and tons of PAR! Just not as efficient as the 315s. They must be used with 1000w MH mag ballast and in vertical position. Best vert hoods are OG and Luxor. You could just do bare vert set up. I think bigshrimp just posted some pics a couple pages back.
CannaSkweez
New member
Bases, Product Numbers
Bases, Product Numbers
This is the number FROM sleeve of Philips 315w with Mogul Base:
CDM315/U/O/4K ED37, SKU 0 46677 42704 7
I've been testing it for several weeks in veg so far, doing super, which I would expect with 4.15k vs 3.20k, but will flip it on April 1 to Bloom. Testing 2 of these against 2 600w MH/HPS, same bed setup and genetics in soiless, light-blocking curtain between - so far really close so 315w looking close to as strong. This 42704-7 lamp has 34,300 initial lumens vs 31,900 for the 42772-4 adjacent on the spec sheet; seems it is due to a coating used on the -4., both 90 CRI and 4150K. Curious too about the UV blocking?
IS there anyone using the "930" or "942" lamp, who has maybe done this comparison, against this 42704-7, especially in both veg and bloom?
It's sure easier to use most existing hoods with ex39 sockets. The only thing I could find regarding any possible superiority of a PGZ pin base was an obscure mention of sea-spray environs (not Philips), so possibly made for easy draining in wet locations? Seems to me the mogul base should have an advantage due to greater amount of contact area, and they've worked fine with horticultural applications for decades, at much higher watts too, skeptical that this is responsible for a big dif in..
Bases, Product Numbers
This is the number FROM sleeve of Philips 315w with Mogul Base:
CDM315/U/O/4K ED37, SKU 0 46677 42704 7
I've been testing it for several weeks in veg so far, doing super, which I would expect with 4.15k vs 3.20k, but will flip it on April 1 to Bloom. Testing 2 of these against 2 600w MH/HPS, same bed setup and genetics in soiless, light-blocking curtain between - so far really close so 315w looking close to as strong. This 42704-7 lamp has 34,300 initial lumens vs 31,900 for the 42772-4 adjacent on the spec sheet; seems it is due to a coating used on the -4., both 90 CRI and 4150K. Curious too about the UV blocking?
IS there anyone using the "930" or "942" lamp, who has maybe done this comparison, against this 42704-7, especially in both veg and bloom?
It's sure easier to use most existing hoods with ex39 sockets. The only thing I could find regarding any possible superiority of a PGZ pin base was an obscure mention of sea-spray environs (not Philips), so possibly made for easy draining in wet locations? Seems to me the mogul base should have an advantage due to greater amount of contact area, and they've worked fine with horticultural applications for decades, at much higher watts too, skeptical that this is responsible for a big dif in..
120V/240V 315W CMH electronic ballast
120V/240V 315W CMH electronic ballast
Welthink manufactures 120V/240V version 315W electronic ballast for Philips 315W series CMH bulbs. Here is the link: http://welthinkusa.com/pdfs/WEX120-315B.pdf
120V/240V 315W CMH electronic ballast
Welthink manufactures 120V/240V version 315W electronic ballast for Philips 315W series CMH bulbs. Here is the link: http://welthinkusa.com/pdfs/WEX120-315B.pdf
Attachments
You can find adapter (PGZ18->E39) on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/E39-PGZ18-c...ing_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item417e6f8ddc
I just did some research after speaking to some Philips horticulturists. Interesting theories on CRI and spectrums. We all know that CMH's have great PAR, CRI, spectrum bla bla bla. I was told the higher the CRI, the more blue. CRI is based on blue to red. This is new to ME...sorry if you guys are thinking DUH. So the higher the CRI the better for veg. Around 85 CRI (more red) is better for bloom.
My point is veg with 942...start switch with 942 to minimize stretch and lessen stress, and then finish with a lesser CRI 3000k...or even HPS. Opinions?
I plan on starting with my 860w CDM, and then switching to a 600w Genesis HPS (spectrum looks awesome, very affordable, and lasts much longer than Horti).
Oh...and the 120v ballast from advancedtech is being tweaked. Was supposed to be out this week. I'll keep you posted, as I'm all over this one.
My point is veg with 942...start switch with 942 to minimize stretch and lessen stress, and then finish with a lesser CRI 3000k...or even HPS. Opinions?
I plan on starting with my 860w CDM, and then switching to a 600w Genesis HPS (spectrum looks awesome, very affordable, and lasts much longer than Horti).
Oh...and the 120v ballast from advancedtech is being tweaked. Was supposed to be out this week. I'll keep you posted, as I'm all over this one.
I find a couple of things about the PGZ18 base to be superior to an Edison base.
First, the lamp is precisely located every time that it is installed, and Philips appears to manufacture the lamps consistently so that the internal bracing is "clocked" to a specific point. This allows you to position the socket so that the lamp's bracing is pointed toward the hood rather than creating a shadow in the light footprint.
Second, having changed thousands of HID lights in my career, one of the major problems with the Edison base is that either people don't get the lamp tight enough and arcing takes place between the socket and the lamp, or they over-torque the lamp and the subsequent heat-cool cycles contribute to the lamp base seizing in the socket. The PGZ18 design makes over- or under-torquing impossible.
LargePrime
Member
Funny I was thinking the positive locating and positioning was a plus.
But what of the point about being able to use existing reflectors?
Does anyone have a decent reflector that works well with the 315W?
If not, is there any interest in Open Sourcing the design for one?
Do you have any information on how they're accomplishing 120v?
The Advanced site says
So did they make the "Active Filter Input Circuit" twice the size or just add a built in step down transformer?
