Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[gramsci.antonio]

I'm using CMH from EYE Iwasaki Electric http://www.eye.co.jp
It's 360 watt, 41400 lumen, 4100k, 80ra with 15000hrs of life.
The spectrum chart...

Is my Japanese CMH as good as one you use?
Is it same thing this thread deal with? just in case to make sure...

kansha! Thank you!

How do you power it? I've never seen a 360 W bulb... just 250-400-600....

can this kind of bulb be powered with an electronic ballast?

 

[MostHigh]

It's available in 250 & 400 also. Round about $90 though.
http://www.eyelighting.com/ceraarc.html

 

[Guest]

OsWiZzle -

Another good link! Thank you. It is too bad they have not any data/study included for the CMH bulbs. I think that it is interesting to see however, that the eye 6,500k is amongst the leaders as it has a nice full spectrum. I believe that the R/B of the CMH is better for our purposes. Nice though.

Plantlightinghydroponics.com or Businesslights.com has that 65k iwasaki for around 60 - 70 US and I have thought about it before for veg. But the life expectancy and need for additional ballasting is concerning. I still think that the Phillips CMH is the most reasonable and obtainable option for us.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

finally i found an european shipper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.iwasaki.co.uk/productinfo/cera_arc.html

but will those lamps run on digital?

anyhow the lamp put out 38.000 lumens... not 41.000....

wtf?

 

[simba]

sorry i havent been as around as before i will be again soon...

ya the MH 10k is a natural Finishing agent..
basically when autumn comes there is a higher blue to red ratio and that tells the pant to hurry up.. (long version shortened)..
dont get that mistaken for using 10k only though u still need the CMH 4k as a base light.....
during veg,and final a 10k isnt a bad option..Pricey to depending (and it adds extra kick of UVB) Be careful at that point you can easily over ripen and Burst your Glands and then its no good as its starts oxidation all of the goodness not just the iner juice)
(ya got me before i was ready to release Brand and part # recommendations)
but we going to start saying using cmh 4k as the base threw all parts of the grow.. and for during parts a bit dif then life is though.. (Cost for cust is huge )(basically clone,seedling,veg 4kcmh+10k, early Flower just CmH, mid flower Extra Red (that lamp is Shh at the moment cause we finalizing 2 dif ones)late flower / ripen 4k cmh + 10k
now this above is for even more advanced spd growing.. cmh by itself is allot better than hps and the custom CMH combos are above cmh by itself..


ya the EYE lighting is Horid markup just for the name..
nice lamps i like the cera arc red if i had to choose but theres few issues.. thats why we chose philips (for price vs specs (Big issue there to) vs results)
we can get them but even there HPS Retro versions i dont care for vs Philips cmh (Price is huge in that reasoning)

 

[MPL]

Got my bulb in today, so I should be able to start soon. Yay! One thing is for sure, the color is a whole lot better than the orangey HPS bulbs.

Quick question, should the bulb sound like a bell when you move it? It jingles. Also, is it normal for new bulbs to have a black soot like residue on the bottom part of the glass?

 

[MostHigh]

Curious MPL...is the base plain brass, or the shiny electro-plate version? Does the base show any signs of use? ie, scuff marks from being screwed in.

Has anyone else seen that there are two different bases out there for the Philips 400CMHs?
Is the plain brass version spec'd the same and just had been sitting on the shelf when the plated bases came around?

 

[Guest]

Yes it should be dark at the base. They do make a "tingy" noise when you move them around. Just the wasy they are made. I know you realize that they should not be shaken. Mine have allways been plain brass at the base.

The only one I have ever had fail was recently. I must have been stoned out pretty good when I moved 18mos ago because I installed a 2yr old vert only in my horiz hood. It went another 18mos and then just failed to fire. Not too bad in my opinion. I haven't bought any new CMHs in a while as I by wholesale and get a couple at a time.

 

[Guest]

Simba -

I have found that the 10k added to the cabinet with the CMH at the last 2 - 3wks really makes them pump a lot more resin out. They get nice and oily and I have not had any glands blow up on me. I have not noticed any quicker finish, but I can be a little bit lazy when it comes to watching the day count. Once they get to a certain point I just start watching trichs as that is all that matters imho.

The 10k is a 150w added to the CMH just for the UV and hormone response. I have not seen trichs bursting because I watch them so regular that they wouldn't have a chance.

 

[MPL]

I am at work right now but I am 99% sure it was not a brass colored base.

I'm not that concerned about it really. It fires and it is bright.

 

[Dr. Bloom]

Hey guys I finally got a comparison going between the the Phillips CMH (400 watt) and the Hortilux EYE HPS (400 watt).

My experiment is far from scientific, but hopefully it will shed some light (no pun intended) on how much (if any) better the CMH is compared to a HPS growlight.

To do this I built a SCROG using Wallyducks C99xHaze (5 clones + the mother plant). The screen is 2x4, with half of it covered by (half of) the CMH, and half of it covered by (half of) the HPS.

Well they say a pictures worth a thousand words, so here ya go:

Just the Scrog:


With the other plants in the room:

 

[Guest]

Healthy looking grow there! How long have they been going like that? I would venture to say that the growth is thicker/tighter under the CMH. Hard to tell might just be the THC in my brain!LOL

 

[Dr. Bloom]

Lol Azeotrope.

One of the downsides to my experiment is that I did not place them in that formation until about 1.5 weeks ago (about 3 or 4 days into flowering), and i'm not sure that I did so perfectly evenly. Though i tried to make both sides equal to begin with, i think i may have given a slight edge to the CMH side just by chance.
But......I do seem to be getting better growth from the CMH side, at least it seems that way to me when i look at them in person.

Even though I wasn't perfect at setting up this experiment, i'm sure there will be a clear victor by the end. I have definitely found the CMH to be an excellent in veg.....but my question is whether it is superior to HPS in flowering as well?

If the buds from the CMH are bigger, denser, or more crystally that those
under the HPS, then I feel I can attribute that result to the CMH bulb.

If all the buds look the same on both sides, but there are more on the CMH side, then i won't necessarily attribute that to the difference in the bulbs....as the difference could have been caused by my placement of the plants (this is only my second scrog....and my first since i've been old enough to buy porn or cigarettes.)

As I said though, CMH is EXCELLENT in veg. I only used a cmh bulb for the second half of veg for all the plants in the room, and the leaves of all my plants are huge and healthy.



One last thing....look at the big plant in the middle. Notice the difference in color between the leaves on the HPS side, and the leaves on the CMH side!
Doesn't show up too much in the pic....but sure is cool in person!

 

[MPL]

Sorry, I just double checked and indeed the metal base of the bulb is a brass color. I don't know if it is plated or anything.

Curious MPL...is the base plain brass, or the shiny electro-plate version? Does the base show any signs of use? ie, scuff marks from being screwed in.

Has anyone else seen that there are two different bases out there for the Philips 400CMHs?
Is the plain brass version spec'd the same and just had been sitting on the shelf when the plated bases came around?

 

[Dr. Bloom]

MPL....I had the same "black soot like residue" on mine as well (a 400 watter)

I would be willing to bet that it is not a problem and is created during the manufacturing process.

Also mine jingles as well....which I also don't think is a problem.

Still if you feel something is a bit off....feel free to investigate. If something is up with yours, something is also up with mine...so let me know

 

[FreezerBoy]

My 250 jingles but, only when I handle it. On delivery, I was terrified it broke in shipping. You could hear the jingle through the box. Too early to tell the difference in the garden between it and my old 150 HPS. Even then, I really wouldn't know if the difference was bulb type or bulb strength.

Doc Bloom, way to take one for the team. I'll be checking back.

 

[Siddartha]

Freeze, let us know how much hotter that 250 watter is than the 150 watt HPS, it looks like it may be the next size in line for me.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Short answer, much hotter.

Unfortunately, I can't give you a scientific answer. I've been pretty lo-tech to date and have no actual specs on the old 150's heat but, I'd guess mid 70s on average. PLEASE NOTE I'm growing in a freezer, specifically designed to hold it's temp despite outside conditions! I do know the first time I opened the door after the 250 had been going all night, the heat blast was palpable. An aquarium thermometer in the shade was over 90. This while being in the garage at a temp around 55.

I rewired the ballast outside the freezer and that helped but my bucket temps were around 84. I made a white "skirt" over the top which dropped temps to 78. I'm guessing this means my temps are more about convection than radiance. I'm going to put some glass on the hood and vent through there. If that doesn't do it, I guess the hood will get a dedicated vent system.

Sorry I don't have a better answer.

 

[Siddartha]

Thanks for the quick answer. I'm designing a rubber maid grow now and may be building a reactor-style grow in the future so I'm looking at heat in particular.

 

[MostHigh]

MPL...the brass base may have the leftovers of a tig weld on it. Clear the soot for sake it interfers with good contact in the socket.