Canna Boost V Molasses - side by side comparison.

[hilbie]

theres pro chemist at compines making nute after nute after nute after nute, some one comes along on a grow forum and is like, those chemist need ph help, and this isnt right, im going to add this and fix the problem with my newbie masters degree in sugar, add it an move on is all im saying, it aint that special-


i imagine half the fools adding this stuff to there nutes have this shit already in it, its more common then u realize-

 

[ShroomDr]

ok, but why dont you start your own thread to spout off in?

I saw your post about 17% increase, and went back though the thread looking for this. Unfortunately for me, you were just pulling bullshit out of your ass (for no reason).

I love wasting my time, looking for info assholes cite, when it was never stated.

 

[*mistress*]

theres pro chemist at compines making nute after nute after nute after nute

?... relevancy?

if the 'pro chemist' are so accurate, why not use the bottle instructions?

anybody compared rez/head flora series form at 6/9 to lucas to 8/16 [thread starter: hilbie]

some one comes along on a grow forum and is like, those chemist need ph help, and this isnt right, im going to add this and fix the problem

fwiw, the 'rez', 'h3ad' & lucas formulas were/are all posted on 'forums'... w/ the ph/lucas formula, goes back some time... on the forums...

why seek data & innovations in/from the forums & then simultaneously sneer @ the data & innovations that are constantly occurring?

with my newbie masters degree in sugar, add it an move on is all im saying, it aint that special-

some critical points you neglect is that 'pro chemists', lab tech, etc. all rove these boards... sometimes they take concepts, patent them & create new products... some times they simply replicate the work of many forum members that have dialed in their system...

i imagine half the fools adding this stuff to there nutes have this shit already in it, its more common then u realize-

'fools'?

enjoy your garden!

 

[Greyskull]

back to subject...

I like Boost

everything about it... the extra resin production, the dimensions it adds to what your carbs increase, the increase in yeild - its like really adding the finishing touches (like a finisher). i think the name is proper as well... it helps your dialed in garden get up another level or 2...

 

[Owl Mirror]

Well I'm going to give coco a try.
I finally found free shipping so it's doesn't cost an arm and a leg to buy this stuff.
I found: Coco Garden 650-Gram Compressed Coco Fiber Growing Medium @ Price: $8.99 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping

One 1.43-Pound (650-Gram) brick makes 2-2.5-Gallon (8-9l) of potting medium

I bought three to qualify for the Free shipping.
That should provide enough for three buckets plus the perlite.

 

[indifferent]

Sounds good owl, just make sure you flush the first brick and test the runoff for salts, if it has salts, you'll need to flush the other blocks before use.

On the subject of us fools playing around, well, if there was a magic nutrient that worked perfectly, producing maximum results in every grow system and setup, then we wouldn't need to experiment, but there isn't, and experimentation is fun.

Ever considered that some people might like to experiment because they actually really enjoy and get satisfaction from the learning process?

Yes, I really enjoy learning, knowledge is cool imho. No, I'm not a nerd! lol

 

[Owl Mirror]

theres pro chemist at compines making nute after nute after nute after nute, some one comes along on a grow forum and is like, those chemist need ph help, and this isnt right, im going to add this and fix the problem with my newbie masters degree in sugar, add it an move on is all im saying, it aint that special-

i imagine half the fools adding this stuff to there nutes have this shit already in it, its more common then u realize-

Will you put together a comprehensive tutorial for everyone to follow ?

 

[indifferent]

Ignore him Owl, don't feed the troll!

hilbie, this has been a wonderful thread full of nice folks sharing good info, don't spoil it.

 

[NoNo]

question

question

Please forgive me if this was already covered in the thread previously, but since I found this thread tonight I only read the posts by the author and 2-3 others (too much noise for one sitting).

I found somewhere else (googling) that this product (canna boost) "special ingredients" are "Triacontanol & L-Amino Acids".


My question, could you make your very own version of canna boost for much cheaper with these two ingredients:

http://www.super-grow.biz/Triacontanol.jsp
http://www.super-grow.biz/Amino.jsp
?

Thank you, and sorry if this has already been discussed above and I missed it.

 

[indifferent]

Interesting. I have a feeling that it's got more in it than just Triacontanol and Aminos. I think it has fermented soy beans in it like BioBizz TopMaX does. The stuff they are extracting by fermenting the soy is phospholipids and you can buy the food additive Lecithin in granulated for cheap, it is 97% phospholipids. I think there is some molasses or raw sugar cane juice in Boost too.

I have started using Dutch Master MAX Bloom which is a humic/fulvic product with an NPK of 0.114-2-3, it contains a mild PK boost and in the DM blurb they mention 'phospholipid technology'. I googled phospholipids and found some info:

Phospholipids can also act as an emulsifier, enabling oils to dissolve in water. Phospholipids called lecithin are extracted out of cooking oil and then used as food additives in many things such as bread and can also be purchased separately in a health food store.

Lecithin is any group of yellow-brownish fatty substances occurring in animal and plant tissues, and in egg yolk, composed of phosphoric acid, choline, fatty acids, glycerol, glycolipids, triglycerides, and phospholipids (e.g., phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylethanolamine, and phosphatidylinositol). However, lecithin is sometimes used as a synonym for pure phosphatidylcholine, a phospholipid that is the major component of its phosphatide fraction. It may be isolated either from egg yolk (in Greek lekithos—λέκιθος) or from soy beans, from which it is extracted chemically (using hexane) or mechanically. It has low solubility in water. In aqueous solution its phospholipids can form either liposomes, bilayer sheets, micelles, or lamellar structures, depending on hydration and temperature. This results in a type of surfactant that is usually classified as amphipathic. Lecithin is sold as a food supplement and for medical uses. In cooking, it is sometimes used as an emulsifier.

Sounds to me like this could be used to feed a plant, the phosphoric acid most certainly would be of use. I expect DM MAX Bloom contains Lecithin or a similar phospholipid as it's source of phosphorous. MAX is a thick, gloopy reddish substance so that could well be the phospholids causing that as it says in aqueous solution it forms structures.

Lecithin is fairly cheap to buy - a 250g container of granules is about 5ukp and that is 97% phospholids which has got to be a lot more of the stuff than is in several bottles of DM MAX.

Product Details

Recommended Dosage
Take 1 teaspoonful 3 times daily. Can be sprinkled onto cereals or taken direct from the spoon.

Ingredients
Soya lecithin: providing phospholipids 97%.

Nutritional Information
Each 3.5g teaspoonful typically provides: Phosphatidyl choline 665-805mg, phosphatidyl inositol 280-455mg, choline 126mg, inositol 80mg, phosphorus 105mg (13% EC Recommended Daily Allowance).

Other Information
Lecigran is biologically a highly active lecithin complex, rich in phosphatidyl choline, which plays an important part in the breakdown of fat in the liver and the emulsification of fat in food. Lecigran may be chosen as a supplement by those following a low fat, low cholesterol diet. One teaspoonful of Lecigran is equivalent to eighteen 270mg lecithin capsules.

105mg of phosphorous in 3.5g makes it pretty weak in phos I think, 3.5g is 3.5 million mg, and 105 out of 3,500,000 is a pretty low percentage.

Anyways, anyone got any thoughts on the possible usefulness of lecithin as a mild bloom additive?

I can buy Minamino liquid Aminos from a fishing bait place really cheap, and I ordered some Triacontanol from supergrow last week.

If someone tracks down the actual ingredients of Boost I'm sure I can make something very similar.

So far, my list of likely suspects for ingredients:

Triacontanol
Amino Acids
Molasses
Lecithin

It's probably got some seaweed extracts in there too, possibly for the cytokinin, but there is a lot of other good stuff in seaweed.

 

[indifferent]

The other things I'm interested in for their possible use as bloom boosters are the chelated minerals you can buy in healthfood shops. Surely if they are in chelated form, they are immediately available to the plant?

This one piqued my interest:

Chelated Potassium Gluconat

A chelated form of potassium sounds like something that could be a useful ingredient in a bloom booster.

Also, I found some interesting info about the role of Amino Acids in flower development from the page of a Chinese producer of pant growth regulators , fertilisersand amino chelates:

We are manufacturing and supplying Yield Enhancer Ample which has all vital Amino acids necessary for plant, to execute balanced growth. This has Amino Acids, which are derived by enzymatic hydrolysis process from vegetable and Milk Proteins. The salient features are as follows:

* Being Natural in origin, it is safe for use
* Dose of Ample for spraying on Field crops is 2 to 2.5 ml per litre of water
* For Fruit crops it is recommended at 2.5 to 3 ml per litre of water
* Effect on Photosynthesis- Ample provides Glycine and Glutamic acid, which are fundamental metabolites in process of formation of vegetable tissues and chlorophyll synthesis
* Helps to increase chlorophyll concentration in the plant leading to higher degree of photosynthesis
* Effect on Reproductive Growth- Ample provides Aromatic Amino acids viz. Alanine, Tyrosine, Phenylalanine,Tryptophan, Valine and Leucine, which helps in flowering.
* Effect on Vegetative growth- Ample provides amino acid Arginine, which has got huge potential of inducing vegetative growth and increase synthesis of various enzymes, thus it helps in vegetative growth and increased Flowering and Fruiting
* Ample provides Amino acids - Aspartic and Glutamic acid which helps in N metabolism and its utilization in plant
* Ample provides sulphur-containing amino acids viz. Cysteine, Methionine, and lysine, which help in building disease resistance in plants
* Amino acid Proline provided by Ample, maintains water balance in plants and it also provides hardiness to cell wall, enabling plant to resist unfavourable changes in climate
* Ample provides amino acid Histidine, which helps in early maturity of fruits

Having read that, i think it's a safe bet that Boost also has Amino acids. The 'hydrolyzed carbohydrates' they mention sounds like molasses or sugar cane juice in solution to me.

If only I can find a recipe for a bloom booster I'll be happy!

 

[NoNo]

I ordered some Triacontanol from supergrow last week.

Did you remember to order polysorbate 20 from ebay you'll need to mix Triacontanol into water?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Polysorbate-20-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2304793c0b

 

[indifferent]

An Interesting article on Bloom Booster Ingredients from AN:

Bloom Booster - The Truth about the Ingredients of this Powerful Hydroponic Supplement
COPYRIGHT, 2008, ADVANCED NUTRIENTS

Before your plants enter into the flowering stage, you need to take the necessary steps towards ensuring that they receive everything that they need to create large, heavy blooms.

One of the best ways of doing this is by adding a quality bloom booster to your hydroponic system. But before you do, it is imperative that you educate yourself on the ingredients in this hydroponic product so that you properly understand how it works.

Phosphorus and Potassium - Every hydroponics grower knows that the three most important nutrients to their plants are Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium or NPK. While nitrogen is important during all stages of growth, the place where it has the most benefit is vegetative stage.

If you are truly interested in helping your plants create the biggest flowers and most impressive blooms, you need to make certain to give it adequate supplies of phosphorus and potassium during the flowering stage of growth. A good, constant stream of these nutrients has been shown to increase the metabolism of plants, which can speed plant cell division in a way that helps create bigger buds.

Amino Acids - Amino acids have several functions in plants. Like in humans, they are essential to helping growth. But not just any amino acids can function as well as a bloom booster. Specifically, plants only benefit from the "L" amino acids, such as L-Glycine and L-Phenylalanine. L- Cysteine, for example has been shown to help your plant store and transport reduced sulphur, synthesize proteins and help regulate enzymes in your plant. All of these affects can help stimulate superior bud growth, which leads to bigger, heavier flowers.

Carbohydrates - Plants make their own carbohydrates through photosynthesis but that doesn't mean that they won't benefit from an extra boost of carbs designed specifically for plants. In particular, they can benefit from the carbohydrates ascorbic and citric acid.

These carbohydrates can help catalyze growth a rate that isn't as likely with the carbohydrates that your plant normally produces. They also serve as antioxidants, which can help clear your plants of toxins and make plant cells expand, thus helping them much more able to absorb nutrients and moisture.

Humates - To top it all off, some bloom boosters contain humates, such as humic or fulvic acid to ensure that all of the nutrients in your nutrient solution are absorbed properly. One of the things that humates do to your roots is make them much more permeable, which can make the other ingredients in the root booster affect the flowering stage of development of your plants in a much more profound way.

Some bloom boosters use only high concentrations of phosphorus and potassium to achieve their effect. Others use all of the elements listed above. Many hydroponics growers choose to use these two kinds of bloom boosters together, in order to get the absolute most benefit out of each. This can be done very effectively, but first you must educate yourself on the best ways to combine these kind of hydroponic supplements.

According to that, ascorbic acid and citric acid are useful plants, so I expect those will be in Canna Boost too. Perhaps they are extracting these two carbohydrates from molasses? Certainly you can buy these two substances easily and cheaply.

 

[Zoolander]

I'll add that I've ran just boost , just molasses and bother together and I've had my best resin production with the combo and more weight and Hilbie I think most of us know that Boost has something in it like molasses but on roids . Sorry Hazy Lady to drop in like this but this guy is being a dick . Thanks for the thread also and great job

 

[indifferent]

Did you remember to order polysorbate 20 from ebay you'll need to mix Triacontanol into water?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Polysorbate-20-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2304793c0b

Yes, I have a bottle sat here looking at me.

Hey zoo, good to see ya here, I thought you'd deserted us for the farmer!

Yeah, he's just being a dick, shame he has to do it in this thread, plenty of other threads where it would be more like the expected behaviour! lol

 

[*mistress*]

Yes, I have a bottle sat here looking at me.

mixed crushed alfalfa pill w/ tween 20 few futures ago...

crushed 1-250mg pill in glass ashtray w/ tablespoon...
tween 20 is amber-tannish liquid. smells of detergent. slight bubbling action when agitated...

alright, after pulverizing pill, gently poured in equal amount polysorbate 20 (tween 20).
mixed, agitated, left to dissolve for 24hrs...

when mixed w/ tap water, slight suds, like detergent, that subside. similar to good fertilizer that has been shaken... while this product can generally be used as an emulgator, acetone, chloroform & other organic solvents - included polysorbate 80, etc. will dissolve the substance further...

in any event, after 24hrs, poured the mixture (tween 20+alfalfa pill) into 5 gal bucket of tap water.
agitated, stirred, mixed...

ph settled around 6.0-6.2... good enough...

applied to media... seemingly more reproductive glands & larger bracts - overday...

the tween 20 is to both dissolve the particulates & to disperse them, preferably evenly, thru out the solution... will get smaller particulates w/ stronger organic solvents, including benzene, etc...

most powders (eg, kelp powder) can be dissolved & dispersed in to solution in this manner. some solvents will dissolved & disperse better than others. really depends on the physical properties of the substance.

so...

equal parts powder/crystalline substance (1-tria) & polysorbate 20 should do trick... yes, heating the solution slightly will help dissolution... though not required w/ good mixing... want the particles to be freely suspended in the solution...

like shaking bottle of gh fnb... so all the compacted nutes can coagulate in the solution. want free particle disperment & small enough particle size to permeate foliage &/or root zone.

next, same solution get foliar sprayed - ph adjusted up to 7.0 w/ potassium silicate.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[overmyhead]

Mistress - interesting idea so I went looking around for ingredients and found a thread stating that the triaconatol ist the secret ingredient in super thrive and is known to boost growth in veg. My question is that I've always heard not to use ST in flower so are there any possible downsides here? If we cant do micros - can we do too much? Thanks!

mixed crushed alfalfa pill w/ tween 20 few futures ago...

crushed 1-250mg pill in glass ashtray w/ tablespoon...
tween 20 is amber-tannish liquid. smells of detergent. slight bubbling action when agitated...

alright, after pulverizing pill, gently poured in equal amount polysorbate 20 (tween 20).
mixed, agitated, left to dissolve for 24hrs...

when mixed w/ tap water, slight suds, like detergent, that subside. similar to good fertilizer that has been shaken... while this product can generally be used as an emulgator, acetone, chloroform & other organic solvents - included polysorbate 80, etc. will dissolve the substance further...

in any event, after 24hrs, poured the mixture (tween 20+alfalfa pill) into 5 gal bucket of tap water.
agitated, stirred, mixed...

ph settled around 6.0-6.2... good enough...

applied to media... seemingly more reproductive glands & larger bracts - overday...

the tween 20 is to both dissolve the particulates & to disperse them, preferably evenly, thru out the solution... will get smaller particulates w/ stronger organic solvents, including benzene, etc...

most powders (eg, kelp powder) can be dissolved & dispersed in to solution in this manner. some solvents will dissolved & disperse better than others. really depends on the physical properties of the substance.

so...

equal parts powder/crystalline substance (1-tria) & polysorbate 20 should do trick... yes, heating the solution slightly will help dissolution... though not required w/ good mixing... want the particles to be freely suspended in the solution...

like shaking bottle of gh fnb... so all the compacted nutes can coagulate in the solution. want free particle disperment & small enough particle size to permeate foliage &/or root zone.

next, same solution get foliar sprayed - ph adjusted up to 7.0 w/ potassium silicate.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[*mistress*]

Mistress - interesting idea so I went looking around for ingredients and found a thread stating that the triaconatol ist the secret ingredient in super thrive and is known to boost growth in veg. My question is that I've always heard not to use ST in flower so are there any possible downsides here? If we cant do micros - can we do too much? Thanks!

?

have not commented on superthrive... no experience w/ it... many futures ago, maybe...

triacontanol, supposedly, is an ingredient in c*nn* boost... Hazy Lady reported advantageous results...

have found much >coin sources for tria, & applied such, as detailed above...

basically, alfalfa, sunflower seeds & even regular green tea leaves contain tria... though not refined & extracted from the other long-chain carbon alcohols that are commonly refered to as anti-oxidants...

also, since the effective aaplication rate of 1-tria is in the order of 0.001-1 microgram, not gram - but 1/1000 of a gram... it is fairly reasonable to gather that dissolution of a 100% alfala tablet in polysorbate 20 is possible.

& that tria is released into the solvent, from the high content present in the physical properties of alfalfa... certain of it, actually.

further mixing thoroghly to disperse the free & bound triacontanol particles in organic solvent is next step... the tween 20 also acts as emulsifier; making powders/oils, etc & water mix...

complete process by dilution in water... adjust ph for root &/or foliar feed, apply...

there is >data on the other ingredients of boost... seemingly amino acids, etc, etc... documented evidence of tria increasing yield, sugar content, etc of many crops... so, just find cheapo source of tria, diy-supplement & apply...

some select to purchase product... some prefer to make own...

maybe other posters can chime in on the pgr's (plant growth regulators) other than tria... such as, superthrive...

enjoy your garden!

 

[indifferent]

Triacontanis probably an ingredient, but I suspect it's only one of several goodies in Boost. I reckon it has humic/fulvic aminos, carbohydrates, possibly phospholipids, it will be a quite complex brew I think.

I suspect the reason some people don't see much improvement from using boost is that the other components of their feeding regime already contain some of the ingredients of boost.

Canna don't do any other boosting products, they don't do a seaweed product with cytokinin, aminos and vitamins like Nitrozyme or Plagron Phyt-Amin, I reckon this is because those things are already in Boost. They also don't do any kind of molasses-based product such as Vitrasol, Sweet or ATA-Organics Flavour, again, probably because they put it in Boost.

The info from the canna rep about it taking a year to ferment one of the major components in huge vats has me thinking that he was referring to fermenting soy beans to extract the phospholipids. Biobizz also use fermented soy bean extracts in their Top Max and BioHeaven boosters, it's mentioned in their literature, so I think it's a safe bet to say Canna Boost has fermented soy bean extract in it like Top Max. You can buy granulated soy bean extract in the form of the food additive Lecithin. Biobizz say they extract L-amino acids from the soy beans, but to me, Spirulina or another seaweed or algae would be a better source of aminos, so maybe they are really extracting phospholipids from soy?

 

[habeeb]

Canna don't do any other boosting products, they don't do a seaweed product with cytokinin, aminos and vitamins like Nitrozyme or Plagron Phyt-Amin,

The info from the canna rep about it taking a year to ferment

what is bio-rhizo then?

I also thought it was 6 months?

I'm just trying to clarify. I also was gonna get tested bio-boost, but I heard it was a reverse engineer job, and I'm thinking it would be $$$. but you never know, I am dying to see some ingredients used in boost, as will be one step closer to knowing what there "magic " tonic is