Can we solve the mystery LED deficiency before it takes over the world?

[Guest]

The Yoplaits are a week older than the #1s. I think this rules out everything but a root/nutrient issue.

2 days after Yoplait transplant. I already know the most compact, curled up plant with purple stems will continue to curl up,and slowly die. The rest will make it if I keep transplanting.

Curled, compact, purple stems, stalk significantly thicker above the first node than below, lost its cotyls, no significant growth in over a week; shes a goner, 100% guarantee. They never pull out of this.

Normal structure, no purpling, maintains the cotyls, she will make it. But with the "banana canoe" leaf morphology up top, blotchyness and leaf kinks I already know what kind of yields I'll get.

Zero lateral roots. Zero, none. I could be growing in a Pringles can.

Geez the site really downgrades the photos. Maybe I need to resize them manually or something?

 

[Guest]

Poisoning seems most likely. Warm compost poisons plants, makes leaves yellow. You are adding too many chemicals, probably too much Nitrogen. Your soil is probably composting into vast amounts of nutrients, as well as additional heat and bacteria. If your house is warm, the compost will be warm. It may suprise you, but if you feel in the middle of your affected pots, you may feel extra warmth. This is composting.

I've had this problem in the past so it's something I make sure to avoid.

 

[TPFTFW]

Why continue growing in a soil that is killing your plants.

i agree with those saying lock out from too hot of a mix

 

[f-e]

I'm unsure about P&Mg dependency. Treating them individually is a task for me, so my knowledge of interactions is very limited. I'm not sure what roots taste like either, but seem to recall quite bland. I have nothing to munch on as I type.

I would ignore Red colouration. It would typically mean a problem, but even that's plant dependent. Red on top of leaf stems may be a good indication of high light. Red going from the stem to under the leaf an N indication that's later than more recognisable ones. P and Mg are common issues that will cause red to show. So will be seen often, but the actual list of reasons goes on. Stress in general.

The curling under and wrapping up like it's a cold day is actually K.

The option is still there to get a soil sample done. After so much time, you may wish to go the full monty and look at every aspect the lab can do.

You're not liking the coco idea, just to prove you can still grow? I'm surprised to see you still trying. Though I do have a similar headache going on myself. 18 months in, I'm foliar feeding different zones with different amendments from the Canna Mono range (generally) to find the things that really matter. The mono range is as it sounds. Individual elements presented on their own.

 

[v7ej207]

"either that or using phosphoric acid to adjust pure tap water (ppm was regularly over 500)."

Can you explain what mean here, is your pure tap water coming out at 500 ppm? If that isn't the case, then read no further..

If so, then I'd go buy a few gallons of distilled water and run that for a couple weeks to a month on plants that haven't had their soil bathed repeatedly in that salty, tap water.

 

[Creeperpark]

I can't tell you much without knowing what growing media, fertilizer and water type you are using.

 

[stealthnstoned]

I can guarantee that leds are not the cause of this. This is environmental. The only times I encounter this is when I improperly water my plants.

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

I've never had those problems under LED, it must be your soil.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

My 5cts from my own grows and observations are when running these lates generation of these powerful diodes you
a) need heaps of Ca and Mg (and depending on your water source that can go through the roof)
b) Manufacturers lightsource-canopy distance rules are to be taken with a grain of salt. If you pay attention, these are the same as for the older generations of LED lights, yet the newest diodes are MUCH more powerful. Stay further away than what they advise, especially when they're young.
CC

 

[Guest]

I can guarantee that leds are not the cause of this. This is environmental. The only times I encounter this is when I improperly water my plants.

I'll bet you 3 trillion.

 

[Guest]

I've never had those problems under LED, it must be your soil.

Nope, you overfeed. LED doesn't need more of everything. We can grow mediocre cannabis by adding more of everything, or grow stellar Cannabis by only adding what's lacking.Leds have a weak link, that's the point of this thread, to identify the weak link instead of piling more of everything on.

 

[Guest]

I can't tell you much without knowing what growing media, fertilizer and water type you are using.

So you can't identify the deficiency. Sorry then, you won't be working for my trillion dollar grow op when I win the lotto!

 

[f-e]

Didn't this thread evolve into poisoning from unfit compost, with N the foremost problem?

White leaves as K is being blocked
No long roots as P is ok
High pH favouring N
Can't drink or grow lots of roots as something is hot.

Did we see the roots?

It seems weeks since we should of chucked in the towel, realising we can't make our own compost with what's in the shed

 

[Guest]

I would ignore Red colouration. It would typically mean a problem, but even that's plant dependent. Red on top of leaf stems may be a good indication of high light. Red going from the stem to under the leaf an N indication that's later than more recognisable ones. P and Mg are common issues that will cause red to show. So will be seen often, but the actual list of reasons goes on. Stress in

My plants that grow normally never have red/purple stems under led. My results under led have been so black and white I'll always correlate purple stems with failure. Roots and shoots really shouldn't take turns growing,that's exactly what's happening. Light intensity has nothing to do with it in my garden. I get more taco leaf closer to the light, that's it.


If your Led grow takes a month to get a foot tall, you have a nutrient issue, not an environmental issue. Did one blade get too much heat? Did one blade get over watered?

Same problem on another plant. You shouldn't wait for brown spots to diagnose your plants kids.. This plant has a major deficiency. You can tell, by the leaves pulling sideways, and the distorted dark puddles on the inside of the bend.

Nitrogen claw? I don't think so...

Especially when it gets better after a watering. Tips still dark, but claw went away.

Normally growing plant under full QB at 12". Not a spec of purple stem from top to bottom,aside from where I tried to "fimm" it.

Stunted pollen donor under same QB at 27". Purple stems all the way down.

All these have the same deficiency, marked by the dark coloration and restricted growth that pools up in seemingly random places. By using the power of science we can find the deficiency and formulate an efficient fertilizer regime for LED Cannabis growing. It should be easy since Cannabis doesn't switch back and forth between veg and reproduction a dozen times like some crops. 2021 and we still don't know fertilizer ratios for a simple crop like Cannabis?

 

[f-e]

I must be confused. I didn't think you had any plants that grew.

Leafs pointing inwards P
Refusal to go P
Dak green P
low bud weight P
Dark areas P
No branching P
Red colour P

Your pots are dry, the substrate is pulling away from the edges, damaging your roots. Often seen as.......

 

[stealthnstoned]

I must be confused. I didn't think you had any plants that grew.

Leafs pointing inwards P
Refusal to go P
Dak green P
low bud weight P
Dark areas P
No branching P
Red colour P

Your pots are dry, the substrate is pulling away from the edges, damaging your roots. Often seen as.......

100% agree..
This guy refuses to believe that 10000's of other people are using LEDS with no problems. Looking at his plants, hes keeping them to dry and killing his feeder roots.

 

[Ganoderma]

It starts out with a dull colored, dull looking sprout. As it grows, it maintains the "pea soup" coloration and dark glossy blotches form, often accompanied by a kink in the leaf (shown below)
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As the plant grows, the leaves begin to curl downwards, and maintain the strange morphology.
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The majority are effected. I see these signs in many LED gardens to lesser extent.
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The below photo is color accurate. Notice the dark blotches near the petiole and mid leaf




Notice the glossy nature of the dark patches near the midrib of the below plant.



As the lesser affected plant progresses, the more affected plant continues to curl up and display deficiencies.





The heavily affected plants will continue to curl up and show any and all deficiency from the bottom up until leaf drop and it's inevitable slow death outruns the slow development of new growth, a process which can take several months.

from looking at the last couple pictures, I'd say you could likely have a low PH issue going on. When you have a low PH issue the leaves will curl like that and the leaves will look wrinkly. If you feel the leaves, you'll feel the wrinkled texture of the leaf.

 

[Guest]

I put the pollen donor outside (after neutering him), this happened after a few days.

Well if you had a phosphorus deficiency, why didn't you tell me? Upper leaves getting curlier, could this still be a calmag issue, holding phosphorus from moving in the phloem? The color of the leaves is no longer soft and bluish, but bell pepper/lime colored, thick and tough.

​​​I've gotten more plants to maturity by switching to carbon-filtered tap water with a couple different acid sources and alternating 2 nutrient-solublizing microbe products. See the purple petioles creeping in, I'm blending a bit of phosphorus and calcium in.

​​​​Changing my water has brought root growth back. I'll be doing trials later to see if it was the tap minerals, the microbes or the acids. Probably all 3. I'm seeing the roots hit the bottom and shoot back up, but still no lateral growth. Combover roots instead of afroroots. Seems once given the right material, priority #1 becomes searching deep for something.

Still no nitrogen or potassium deficiency. Just whatever these light strips are that slowly turn. (Never saw them before this run)

Seeds developing quickly. Before I changed my water, I had seeds with cavities on the backside. I recently read that can mean phosphorus deficiency. It doesn't mean they are female, lol.

​​​​​​Clackamas Coots ratio at a little under 1/3 the Buildasoil recommended dose (and <1/3 the humus). Germinated 7 weeks ago, transplanted once, 12/12 from seed. I don't see any need for more nitrogen or kelp hormones. Hard to photo but leaves at bud sites are all blueish,and it ain't nitrogen tox. The weak link is obvious. Full strength coots mix must be a error none of the snowboarders at buildasoil has noticed or what?



Phosphorus is the issue. It looks weird under LED. Only question is, do I need more phosphorus, or just more CalMag, microbes, acids etc to keep things flowing...? Will some calmag salesman come settle this so I don't have to do many more months of trials? How does everyone but me know that LED needs more calmag if the symptoms under led don't look like traditional cal or mag deficiency?

 

[Guest]

Mid flower the purple starts creeping down the phloem, and the blue coloration in the new growth follows it down the plant.

Blue bud leaves, and it's not nitrogen.

With RO this plant would be covered in bent bud leaves. Since adding tap water, you only see one bent leaf here and there. It's not nitrogen claw.

"Blue candy" tinted margin on nitrogen deficient leaf.

 

[Guest]

Late flower, the blue coloration congeals and morphs into the "top fade" colors.

The blue was sugar all along.

I'm pretty sure plants shouldn't be one step away from fading throughout the entire grow cycle. Every time you see a dark blotch on an LED plant, that's what you're seeing; pre-purple carb buildup.

The "bottom fade" still has the bruise/peach colors you'd expect.

Bottom fade on a plant that is normally not purple. The black dots are the congealed "blue candy" that worked its way down from the top when purple cascaded down through the stems.

Top fade on the same non-purple plant. The "blue" coating congealed into deep red that normally isn't on this strain,but is creeping heavy into the buds

According to them trunk knockers, the calyx might turn if I take her long enough. Again, I've never seen this strain purple before.

​​​​​
This yellowing/crisp is what LED does to a 12-16" canopy over a cycle.