CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[itisme]

They wont take a piece, they will eat the whole damn thing! Once the corporations come in they will buy lobbyists to create regulations making it illegal for anyone not able to pay the huge fees to grow more than a small number of plants for personal use. That's basically what just happened here in CO. I didn't vote in your poll since I live in CO, but obviously I would vote, HELL NO, keep it MEDICAL.

I like the points you made. I also agree that can happen that way and it will surely happen that way if you focus on keeping it illegal while the lobbyist do exactly as you said. So my advice would be to go after the lobbyist and/or explain to the government your point of view. Get a union together.....Don't try and keep it illegal and continue the process of our laws doing more harm than good.

Hell it is illegal and already CALI's biggest cash crop! I am looking for legalization to spread like wildfire once CALI does it and is much better off for doing so......I hope every state in the US follows suit!

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Ok guys may be I have been too harsh on you, but It is just because want you to realize that this isnt game like so many people refer to it as, "The Game". I was also shocked that growers would be voting no. This could help us hate the government a little less at least. so I am making a list of why to leaglize vs. why not too, which I will be slowly editing.

WHY TO VOTE YES
1.as of right now, you could end up in Prison for decades. Also because of Newt Gingrich People can get the death penalty for drugs. Did you know the DEA was originally seeking the death penalty for Marc Emery? Then they went down to 25 years. If he had a shitty lawyer that is what he woulda got too.

2.Think of YOUR FAMILY. Would you want any of your family members thrown in prison for a plant? would you like to be thrown in prison for a plant. In prison you can get shanked or raped or beaten very easily. dont tell your self you ar tough and that it wont happen because all it takes is for you to be caught alone buy a few guys that dont like you.
Remember cali's jails are at 180% capacity. Also Would your spouse stay with you while you are away? most people would like to think that, but it doesnt usually happen. Also do you want your kids to see you in prison. Would you like to have your kids taken away by child protective services?

3. You will be safer after Obama has left office. The respect for states right will not last forever. This will seal the deal.

4. DOMINO EFFECT. this one is too Hoss. I like you man, and I want colorado to make it legal. There will be a vote in 2012 for legalization in colorado. If cali passes there bill colordo government is much more sure to follow. They will be more comfortable with it cause hey, cali did it.

5. The cali Economy is in desperate need of revenue. This will provide much more than people think. In the Netherlands The coffee shop market make 9 billion euro's a year. It is mostly tourist going there for art and pot. Well cali has great art and the best pot in the world already. Let keep our revenue here.

6. What comes from more revenue? more JOBS

7. We can, and will make an official system to protect small growers, just like in the wine business. here is a LINK to my thread saying how we should do it. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2823361#post2823361

8. IT WONT HAPPEN ANY OTHER WAY. name one product other than food that is now taxed? you cant. why? because that is the way it is.

9. Maybe your paranoia will go away a little. mine would. I would even start posting grow pics.

10. police can go after meth labs instead.

11. The rest of the globe will start questioning theirselves? why do we let the states boss us around about our drug policies?

12. HEMP. HEMP. HEMP.

WHY TO VOTE NO
1. big business will produce a sub par product, or add nicotine. (this can be prevented with this https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2823361#post2823361)
2. you don't wanna pay taxes. (suck it up everything is taxed)
3. the price will stay super high so you can keep making money that you can spend on assets because it unreported. (you are greedy)
4. You are scared you wont beable to make any profit due to big business shutting out small growers. (once again this can be prevented like this https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2823361#post2823361)


THE POSITIVES FAR OUT WEIGH THE NEGATIVES. PLEASE VOTE YES. and sorry for yelling earlier

 

[CrazyCooter]

Hash,

I see the post stating you are not from Cali has been edited.

Isn't this thread titled "California Voters Only?"

Sam, you're still registered in Cali, right?

 

[THE PABLOS]

....Fer what it's worth.....I'm not a greedy cashcropper......I have a small private garden.....my wife and I are both Med Card holders...I love to grow and do my own breedin'.....I have nothin' to do with the Med Clubs....

I don't want to see Wal-Mart weed....I think it should stay in the hands....of us....who were willin' to take the risks to cultivate....fer love not $. I'm a realist.....and I do not believe anything will come outta this movement....but regulations. I can not imagine the government not regulatin' potency etc.....patents on everything....maybe guys with Sam's pedigree can do all sorts of things to the genetics....that make it a stable Budwiser type product....5.5 potency as compared to what we have now....

On the 800,000 in jail....probably 1/2 were involved in serious criminal enterprise....chasin' the $.....and would do so some other way if herb was made legal....Stats can not tell all....they can also be slanted to yer cause....like when DEA tells the street value on a bust....sure there are some in jail wrongly.....but not all 800,000...I've been to jail.....it's got alotta of criminals in it....we all take our hits....keep it minor and it doesn't hurt much....LEO will get paid...that is not goin' to change. That's reality. I'm not gonna shed a tear fer the kid busted with an 1/8 and havin' to get his pee pee slapped....or the dude with a warehouse full....willfully tryin' to get rich. We all chip in to the LEO fund at one time or another....be smart...responsible....and it may still happen....nope doesn't bother me....I don't think this will free up jails....they can always find mo' peeps breakin' laws....just add regulations.

Weed should be legal on its own merits.....I think we all agree..... but I would risk bein' pinched over bein' further regulated....that's my stance. Nothin' new.

Fer those of ya claimin' that all us Med patients lie about their aliments....hush yer mouths...ya sound silly and positively outta fuckin' line. Talkin' about puttin' a slant toward yer cause...the exact SHIT I'm talkin' about....politics. Some of ya are such 'fraidy cats that ya shouldn't even think of smokin' pot.....but don't judge those of us with Medical Use exemptions....just sit back and wait fer somebody to say...."It's ok to smoke now little lamb"....ya make me cringe....passive aggressive= coward.....

The regulations....and yes...I do think it will eventually effect the Med folks....kinda like zonin' is now...so many ways to skin the cat....the regulations may eventually make private gardens against the law.....then we'd still be bootleggin'....I just don't see middle America (the attitude I mean) bein' cool with weed growin' in alotta back yards....especially (they would correctly argue)....when ya can go to the store and promote economy. The tax is all part of it....remember? Why let us grow fer free?....if backyard tomatos put a dent in corporate profits...they'd be outlawed too. Basic economics....no rides fer free campers.

California has it good with the Med.....if peeps get pinched....there must be a reason. In my community we don't even worry....we are respectful of others and legal.

A currently flowerin' OH X SK1.....do I look like a Cashcropper? I do not live in any sort of fear...and I do try to live in the moment....maybe that's why I may appear short sighted....but...that's my way of livin' life.



Hash Zep....appreciate ya talkin' to me.....all love here...p

 

[Smoke Buddy]

basically legal weed? where is this you speak of?

i think you are speaking of california, the state where you go to your doctor and lie about some sort of ailment you may have and he hands you a paper saying he recommend you try smoking pot to heal yourself.

if this is the definition of a mmj model which you think all 50 states should look up to, i think you gotta open your eyes a little bit and see what medicine should be all about.

i think its horrible that people have to go to a doctor to legally smoke weed, even if they are using it medically.

Well yes of course Im in California.
I didnt LIE to get a recomendation. I have a very serious condition that is actually private but lets just say I handed just one particular page from my medical records to the doc and she took about 2 seconds to say thaks for making my job easy. I spend most of my time in extreme pain so you really shouldnt assum stuff like that.

I agree arresting people for pot is WRONG. Of course I want everybody to be able to freely partake... I aint no elitist dumb ass that thinks hes special. What Im saying is I dont want corporations to get in the pot biz OK? I want decriminalization, not legalization for that very reason.

We have waited this long for it lets do it right, not screw the pooch because we are in a lather.

 

[vta]

What Im saying is I dont want corporations to get in the pot biz OK? I want decriminalization, not legalization for that very reason.

So...you think cannabis for some reason should be treated different than any other commodity? What makes it different than say, oranges? Farmers that grow and sell oranges pay taxes. What makes cannabis so special that it deserves to have it very own tax exemption?

Take a look at big corporations...most of them were a small business at one time. They had to start somewhere. This law is an opportunity for growers. I know someone that has a homemade sauce. I don't hear him complaining about Heinz taking all his profits. He started selling at farmers markets, now his stuff is in a major grocery store chain.

We have waited this long for it lets do it right, not screw the pooch because we are in a lather.

Cool...so whose going to do it????? Who is going to put out a million dollars to get the signatures needed. I sure don't see anyone lining up for that one. Do you expect us to sit on our ass and wait it out....great plan. Or do you have a million dollars to as they say, 'Put your money where your mouth is'

This is the only chance we got going right now. Let this one pass us by and you will have something to think about the next time a cop busts you for cannabis. Oh wait, you have nothing to worry about because your medical....well what about the non medical people out there??? Lock em up? Your Big Biz Vs. People go to jail argument doesn't stand up.

 

[subrob]

this argument is getting so old already...and still months to go...almost wanna give up trying to talk sense at times...just give up and let the government win like they been doing for decades...they have obviously done one hell of a job on our 'community'...they probably read these threads in thier offices and laugh at us..high fives all around the office! hahaha...itd be funny if it werent so sad....

 

[HossCartwright]

And what about the over 800,000 arrests a year in the USA? Or the over 85,000 last year in California? Do you have any compassion for any of them, or is it all just about what is best for YOU?

I want to begin the steps to end the 800,000 plus arrests, and what is it that you are trying to do? To me it seems all you want to do is sell your weed to as many as you can for as high price as you can with no real competition allowed. I say let Big Agriculture and Big Biz grow and sell it, and the Government can Tax and Regulate it.
Home growers will still be able to grow personal amounts at home and medical users will not be affected.

To me it is easy, do we want to end the over 800,000 arrests yearly of our Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters, friends and neighbors. Or do we want to continue with things the way they are to protect some growers way of life? To me there is no choice, vote yes to end the arrests, and to Tax and Regulate now.

-SamS

You people are so naive. I'm about to fuck you up with some truth so pay attention: THE UNREGULATED GROWING OF CANNABIS WILL NEVER BE LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES! You hippie dippies have this vision of legalization that is far from any potential reality. There will still be people arrested and incarcerated for growing/distributing Cannabis even if this passes because the corporations will come in and hire lobbyists to pass laws to heavily regulate it. And there is no chance anybody currently serving sentences will be released early because of this. You think the privatized prisons are going to give away their inventory?

You people that are chiming in supporting this bill don't even know what you're voting for and you have no idea how government works with respect to corporate business interests. I didn't either until this year. I have learned way more about real US politics from being a caregiver in CO than I ever did in high school or college poli sci classes, that's for damn sure. And the truth is fucking ugly people.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

 

[CrazyCooter]

"You people that are chiming in supporting this bill don't even know what you're voting for..."

It seems like most of the people chiming in aren't even eligible to vote on this issue.

 

[HossCartwright]

^This bill is totally different. IT DOES NOT TOUCH 215.
colorado is a different state with different laws.

cali is different too because prop 215 was voted into law by the people and cant be amended unless the people vote on that too. This is why cali leads the way.

blah blah blah, AMENDMENT 20 was voted in by the people too. And a constitutional amendment is far stronger than a proposition. If an amendment can be trampled on by politicians a proposition can be raped, tortured and buried alive.

Plus as soon as the bill goes into effect in Colorado there will be law suit against it due to the fact that it is so bad, and easy to prove it is contradicting and illegal. That bill in CO wont last long. It will be amended and fixed.

I'm glad you're so confident. Can you float me a loan to get me through until this happens so I don't have to risk doing business on the gray market? B/c right now the only way I can continue to make a living as a caregiver is to be in the gray.

NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT WHILE OBAMA IS SEMI RESPECTING STATES RIGHTS. .

Obama who? Oh you mean that guy who continues to allow rogue DEA agents to harrass medical patients in multiple states and disregards repeated requests for legal clarification from CO senator Jared Polis? Yeah, Obama's a real advocate, pfff....

 

[HossCartwright]

"You people that are chiming in supporting this bill don't even know what you're voting for..."

It seems like most of the people chiming in aren't even eligible to vote on this issue.

Do you have an opinion on the issue and/or something to contribute or are you just here to talk shit and side track the issue? TROLL.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I do have an opinion. I have a vote also.

 

[F_T_P!]

They are already trying to control all the food in the world, why give them cannabis too?


Monsanto Patent for a Pig (Pt.1 of 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ouf_gmA5o

or

Farmer Jim & Reports on HR 875 and Senate Bill S 510
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-b1tuCEaA

or

Monsanto Codex Alimentarius & HR875
http://www.livevideo.com/video/67D8A32B5D824F01A47EA7B284199419/monsanto-codex-alimentarius-.aspx

These are just a few examples of multi-national corporations and the government working hand and hand to enslave the population on the grounds of safety.

A yes vote is a vote for regulation and big business agro.

 

[vta]

LOL

 

[F_T_P!]

LOL

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yes I am a California voter.

-SamS

Hash,

I see the post stating you are not from Cali has been edited.

Isn't this thread titled "California Voters Only?"

Sam, you're still registered in Cali, right?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

On the 800,000 in jail....probably 1/2 were involved in serious criminal enterprise....chasin' the $.....and would do so some other way if herb was made legal.That's reality. I'm not gonna shed a tear fer the kid busted with an 1/8 and havin' to get his pee pee slapped....or the dude with a warehouse full....willfully tryin' to get rich. We all chip in to the LEO fund at one time or another....be smart...responsible....and it may still happen....nope doesn't bother me....I don't think this will free up jails....they can always find mo' peeps breakin' laws....just add regulations.

Weed should be legal on its own merits.....I think we all agree..... but I would risk bein' pinched over bein' further regulated....that's my stance. Nothin' new.

Fer those of ya claimin' that all us Med patients lie about their aliments....hush yer mouths...ya sound silly and positively outta fuckin' line. Talkin' about puttin' a slant toward yer cause...the exact SHIT I'm talkin' about....politics. Some of ya are such 'fraidy cats that ya shouldn't even think of smokin' pot.....but don't judge those of us with Medical Use exemptions....just sit back and wait fer somebody to say...."It's ok to smoke now little lamb"....ya make me cringe....passive aggressive= coward.....

The regulations....and yes...I do think it will eventually effect the Med folks....kinda like zonin' is now...so many ways to skin the cat....the regulations may eventually make private gardens against the law.....then we'd still be bootleggin'....I just don't see middle America (the attitude I mean) bein' cool with weed growin' in alotta back yards....especially (they would correctly argue)....when ya can go to the store and promote economy. The tax is all part of it....remember? Why let us grow fer free?....if backyard tomatos put a dent in corporate profits...they'd be outlawed too. Basic economics....no rides fer free campers.

California has it good with the Med.....if peeps get pinched....there must be a reason. In my community we don't even worry....we are respectful of others and legal.

A currently flowerin' OH X SK1.....do I look like a Cashcropper? I do not live in any sort of fear...and I do try to live in the moment....maybe that's why I may appear short sighted....but...that's my way of livin' life.

Well if you are flowering a OH X SK1 everything is gonna be fine...
As for Cali has it good with the Med...
Remember over 85,000 Cannabis arrests last year in Calif, the highest of any state, and that is under Calif's 215 and 420 medical laws. This has to change, and most of the over 800,000 arrests in the USA were for possession not sales or cultivation.

-SamS

 

[medfinder]

its about money.

its about money.

Well if you are flowering a OH X SK1 everything is gonna be fine...
As for Cali has it good with the Med...
Remember over 85,000 Cannabis arrests last year in Calif, the highest of any state, and that is under Calif's 215 and 420 medical laws. This has to change, and most of the over 800,000 arrests in the USA were for possession not sales or cultivation.

-SamS

800,000...? how much money..time was lost..and made!!

Ya made money for courts..judges..prisons..etc..etc..


since anslinger and hearst made this fiber plant group illegal, I wonder how much really was made and lost...?

say...120 trillion?

its going be legal before I die...I know this.

 

[THE PABLOS]

...well everybody is at least passionate about the situation....I've learned some positive things and some negative things....just don't see myself as much of an activist. Many here are way better informed than myself....I see valid points on both sides.

I've said mo' than my piece....thanx fer the discussion....hope I didn't make any enemies.....peace and good will....the pablos

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

blah blah blah, AMENDMENT 20 was voted in by the people too. And a constitutional amendment is far stronger than a proposition. If an amendment can be trampled on by politicians a proposition can be raped, tortured and buried alive.

I'm glad you're so confident. Can you float me a loan to get me through until this happens so I don't have to risk doing business on the gray market? B/c right now the only way I can continue to make a living as a caregiver is to be in the gray.

Obama who? Oh you mean that guy who continues to allow rogue DEA agents to harrass medical patients in multiple states and disregards repeated requests for legal clarification from CO senator Jared Polis? Yeah, Obama's a real advocate, pfff....

I am confident. what can I say? The reason for this is that the momentum of this movement is going in the direction of legalization faster than it ever has and with more power. Right before the finish line is not the time to slow down.

Also I dont really feel sorry for you colorado growers, come try your luck in texas and then bitch to me about risk. Here it dangerous becuase of the law and the criminals, and the two usually work together to rip you off and jail you. Welcome to south texas.

Also I never said he was an advocate. my exact words were "semi respectful of states rights" meaning no other president since LBJ has been this tolerant towards weed.

During the civil rights movement of the sixties it took a large amount of shitty bills going through different states before we finally got a national bill to give equal rights to minorities and woman; and at the time all your conservatives were screaming about how forced change is bad. well do you think equal rights are bad?

go back further to the time of slavery in the US. Many states outlawed slavery before Lincoln did.

California and then Colorado are going to be big stepping stones in the fight toward national legalization if I can get you cali growers to vote for it. The whole wide world of pot heads has its eyes on cali right now, and is just wanting that yes vote so bad they are squirming in their bean bags with anticipation. you dont wanna disapoint the world do you?

also voting no will be bad karma for you for sure. not from me, but from those poor folk that go to jail and get records that could hae been avoided.

ALSO REMEMBER. ONCE YOU ARE FELON YOU LOSE YOUR RIGHTS TO
1. buy own a gun
2. vote
3. get a good job.

once they have you in the prison system you are trapped they make it almost impossible to satisfy your parole officer, because it last for a fucking decade sometimes. Also you have to pay your parole officer much more than your weed taxes would be. That is if you sell your soul and plea bargin, to avoid prison. How is this worse than taxes and big business?


So basically your choices come down to eventually going to prison or having a legit business, that allows you to have a much less stressed life. hmmmmmm? not so hard

ok one more comparison... from the other thread.

Theoretically, god plays ball with the devil dude. otherwise the devil wouldnt exist. Its just the way the world works.

This bill isnt perfect but it is good for the cause over all by far. You wouldnt dump your pregnant girlfriend because she wasnt a super model. why? because that is fucked, and so is voting no for legalization just because of a taxation. It is like letting down your whole family of growers.
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