CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[CrazyCooter]

Pig DNA in Cannabis??? What for, Fatter buds? Or just bacon flavored? Sounds yummy...
As for "Taxation and regulation are not legalization" are you kidding or just ignoring reality? Remember alcohol prohibition? Remember when they legalized it and Taxed and Regulated it? Or are you saying alcohol is not legal yet also taxed and regulated?
You need to realize that most people buy their food at a store, and the same with alcohol, cigaretts, automobiles, gasoline, air travel, clothing, medicine, all are supplied by big biz to most Americans, why should Cannabis be different? I want Cannabis normalize and part of the mainstream, big agriculture, big biz, Government Taxed & Regulated, all will be part of normalization. And no more 800,000+ arrests a year.
People in Holland can grow 5 plants outdoors, no greenhouse, no lights. It is not legal it is tolerated.
This is not making concessions to big biz it is facing reality of how the world works and trying to prevent the over 800,000 arrests a year in the USA.
Where do you buy your autos, gasoline, alcohol, medicine, clothing, if not from big biz? And if you do support any big biz then why not for Cannabis if it will help end the 800,000+ arrests a year?
Remember you can still grow your own at home for personal use, 25 square feet, and if you have a medical permit even more.
No one will make you buy any Monsanto seeds unless you want to, if they ever even make any, you are just spreading fear in your effort to defeat an initiative that all growers should support if they care at all about the millions of people that have been arrested for Cannabis in the last 73 years, and want to stop it for once and all.

-SamS

Sam,

If you have looked into big business and our food supply you will find that we are not being provided with high quality nutritious food by big business. BB does not care about providing for you, only power and wealth. How is big business' track record with tobacco? Adding chemicals and manipulating nicotine levels to get people addicted. Go to the store and look at the food you can buy. Almost all of it is filled with pesticides, toxins, preservatives, and very low in nutrition. Why do they have to fortify almost everything with vitamins and add food coloring and toxic paints? Monsanto has a horrible record with food products and their business tactics are barbaric at best. Yes, they do insert pig dna and other foreign dna into the food that they genetically modify.

I am not ignoring reality. Legalization is taking the bad laws off the books and letting people grow cannabis just like any other plant. I understand that there is taxation with all commerce but it is the regulation and the ability to still be arrested that does not make it legalization. To call it legalization would be falling into the propagandists trap as regulation is not legalization.

I do realize that most people go to big business for their needs. And everywhere I turn people are getting dumped on by big business and have nowhere else to turn to supply themselves with their needs. Corporations have a horrible track record when dealing with individuals. My family is from the Netherlands and I know the difference in quality of consumable products between Cali and Holland. Come back to Cali and go shop at Safeway for some good nutritious food. It is like night and day.

I do not support this bill because it does not "legalize" cannabis. If we are on the verge of legalization, why concede to let big business regulate what an individual can do with a plant?

Am I limited to how many apricots, apples, or cabbage I can grow on my own property? This bill may be a step forward from where we are now but like anything else corporate America takes over, it is a bit left of center from where the individual would like to go. Extrapolated over time we are going to be way of target in the long run.

Although I don't want to buy Monsanto seeds they have a bad record of patenting their gmo, spreading pollen into farmers fields, and then taking them to court and putting out on their ass. No thanks.

I want legalization, not regulation. Lets repeal the bad laws instead of writing more bad ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PKY5dkUQ0s

 

[F_T_P!]

No problem, but what about the loss of personal freedom of the over 800,000 arrested each and every year? Or don't they count even a little bit to you? As long as the government leaves YOU alone everything is ok with you, no changes needed? Seems a bit selfish...

-SamS

Those 800,000 need to get off their ass and get medical legalized where they live. If that is not possible move to a medical state. If that is not possible, fuck the government and go underground.

I have been arrested and have beaten some cases and taken plea deals on others and I blame no one but my self for getting caught.

Passing this law in November is selling our souls for personal safety and that is just not my style. The government takes to many taxes already, Fuck'um!

 

[ocean_grown]

My hope...is that every state finds a happy medium in the medical use forum....and not invite the government into it any further.

This.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sam,

If you have looked into big business and our food supply you will find that we are not being provided with high quality nutritious food by big business. BB does not care about providing for you, only power and wealth. How is big business' track record with tobacco? Adding chemicals and manipulating nicotine levels to get people addicted. Go to the store and look at the food you can buy. Almost all of it is filled with pesticides, toxins, preservatives, and very low in nutrition. Why do they have to fortify almost everything with vitamins and add food coloring and toxic paints? Monsanto has a horrible record with food products and their business tactics are barbaric at best. Yes, they do insert pig dna and other foreign dna into the food that they genetically modify.

I am not ignoring reality. Legalization is taking the bad laws off the books and letting people grow cannabis just like any other plant. I understand that there is taxation with all commerce but it is the regulation and the ability to still be arrested that does not make it legalization. To call it legalization would be falling into the propagandists trap as regulation is not legalization.

I do realize that most people go to big business for their needs. And everywhere I turn people are getting dumped on by big business and have nowhere else to turn to supply themselves with their needs. Corporations have a horrible track record when dealing with individuals. My family is from the Netherlands and I know the difference in quality of consumable products between Cali and Holland. Come back to Cali and go shop at Safeway for some good nutritious food. It is like night and day.

I do not support this bill because it does not "legalize" cannabis. If we are on the verge of legalization, why concede to let big business regulate what an individual can do with a plant?

Am I limited to how many apricots, apples, or cabbage I can grow on my own property? This bill may be a step forward from where we are now but like anything else corporate America takes over, it is a bit left of center from where the individual would like to go. Extrapolated over time we are going to be way of target in the long run.

Although I don't want to buy Monsanto seeds they have a bad record of patenting their gmo, spreading pollen into farmers fields, and then taking them to court and putting out on their ass. No thanks.

I want legalization, not regulation. Lets repeal the bad laws instead of writing more bad ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PKY5dkUQ0s

Coot,
I have been a Bio-Dynamic Organic grower of fruit and veggies all my life, over 40 years of farming. I care deeply about these issues but have no power to change other peoples buying habits. When I lived in the USA I grew 95% of the food I consumed, when I moved to the Netherlands I still grow a 5,000 square foot garden of veggies each year. But that said, most people in the uSA buy food from big agriculture, that is the way it is. If they don't care why should I?
You say "Legalization is taking the bad laws off the books and letting people grow cannabis just like any other plant"
But you are only right if it is for personal use, if it is for commercial use, then it needs to be regulated just like alcohol is.
If you think that small growers are innocent of spraying Cannabis with insecticides, fungicides, and other poisons to protect their crop and livelihood you are living in denial. When the government here in Holland sampled Coffeeshops Cannabis here they found much was contaminated with insecticides and fungicides, the same in the USA when Harborside started testing for contaminates, Steve the owner told me personally that most Cannabis brought in to be sold to him was contaminated with mold, and or insecticides, fungicides.
If you think people will be safer buying from small growers, you are avoiding the truth. I want a Taxed and Regulated industry, that will be transparent about what they use and don't use on their crops.
I also just want the homegrower for personal use to be just left alone.
I want the over 800,000 arrest to stop, exactly what is your plan to stop them?
You say "My family is from the Netherlands and I know the difference in quality of consumable products between Cali and Holland."
I have no idea of what you are talking about, I have lived here for 25 years and can say the quality of the veggies here is piss poor, you cant even eat a tomato that is grown in the netherlands in a greenhouse, tasteless crap. I never shopped at Safeway much but Albert Hein in the Netherlands is much the same, crap.
But you do not have to buy it if you care enough to grow your own food, like I do.
You say "I do not support this bill because it does not "legalize" cannabis. If we are on the verge of legalization, why concede to let big business regulate what an individual can do with a plant?
WTF, Big biz will have no say what you do with your plants grown at home for personal use, as for amounts, alcohol is legal, but if you try producing millions of gallons of wine or beer you will have government inspectors or worse in a short time.
Do you drink at all? Is the product legal? Is it taxed and regulated?
My motivation is simple, end the over 800,000 arrests a year for Cannabis, could you please explain how anything you have offered will end this crime? And what are you doing to help stop Monsanto from polluting the genepool today? Anything at all? Monsanto has no GM Cannabis and until they do give me a break with the scare tactics.
If you really want legalization, then accept that commercial growers, big or small, need regulations to protect the public, and the only way Cannabis will ever be legalized is if big biz, big agriculture, and Big government regulate and tax Cannabis so they get a piece of the pie. I have zero problems with that, and the over 800,000 people arrested each year, need it soon as possible.
Remember you don't have to buy it, grow your own.
This law is not about what is best for you it is about what is best for the whole nation. Wise up.

-SamS

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I cant believe the votes are this close. IMHO anyone Who grows and would vote no on this bill should get the fuck off this site forever. This is about Americans gaining their freedom back in the long run. You people need to learn what delayed gratification is. you are never gonna get a perfect bill. You have to start some where. If you vote no on this You should go trade places with someone in prison for growing because you are obviously a sociopath that deserves it.

100% serious. If I knew where you lived, and knew you were gonna vote no on this, I would come to your house and cut your fucking hands off with a rusty combat knife. At this point, I have no patience left for the greedy.

 

[Voodoo]

I cant believe the votes are this close. IMHO anyone Who grows and would vote no on this bill should get the fuck off this site forever. This is about Americans gaining their freedom back in the long run. You people need to learn what delayed gratification is. you are never gonna get a perfect bill. You have to start some where. If you vote no on this You should go trade places with someone in prison for growing because you are obviously a sociopath that deserves it.

100% serious. If I knew where you lived, and knew you were gonna vote no on this, I would come to your house and cut your fucking hands off with a rusty combat knife. At this point, I have no patience left for the greedy.

I would get into how overgrow was shut down, and how people go to prison on the regular... but your user status says it all sir. Well done.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Is that a yes or a no? For Tax and Regulation?
I am for people like Lee making more money, he used $1,000,000 of his own money to try and change the laws, to me that is a good thing.
I hope corporations do step in, I want Cannabis normalized and mainstream, taxed and regulated.

-SamS

Well I finally disagree with you Sam, if you feel he spent money for us poe folks here in cali you have been gone far to long. Just because this is the first bill to come down the pike does not mean we should jump on this ill conceived bill. We need to pass the right bill,get it right the first time. Props can not be modified without a vote from the people. And personally I am tired that other states wait for us to always lead the way. Get off your asses and vote. Suerte JK
Money has nothing to do with my No vote.

 

[F_T_P!]

Well I finally disagree with you Sam, if you feel he spent money for us poe folks here in cali you have been gone far to long. Just because this is the first bill to come down the pike does not mean we should jump on this ill conceived bill. We need to pass the right bill,get it right the first time. Props can not be modified without a vote from the people. And personally I am tired that other states wait for us to always lead the way. Get off your asses and vote. Suerte JK
Money has nothing to do with my No vote.

 

[F_T_P!]

I cant believe the votes are this close. IMHO anyone Who grows and would vote no on this bill should get the fuck off this site forever. This is about Americans gaining their freedom back in the long run. You people need to learn what delayed gratification is. you are never gonna get a perfect bill. You have to start some where. If you vote no on this You should go trade places with someone in prison for growing because you are obviously a sociopath that deserves it.

100% serious. If I knew where you lived, and knew you were gonna vote no on this, I would come to your house and cut your fucking hands off with a rusty combat knife. At this point, I have no patience left for the greedy.

You call permission from the nanny state Freedom, you are a fool!

 

[420247]

Odd question... What has been put into this bill to stop the ability of turning this bill into a new version of prohibition... Like the marijuana tax stamp?

 

[weedshooter]

Dennis Peron Pissed Off Richard (Dick) Lee Over This ...

Dennis Peron Pissed Off Richard (Dick) Lee Over This ...

Firing of Dennis Peron

Dennis Peron, the co-author of California Proposition 215 (1996), spoke out against the taxation of marijuana in August 2009. Peron, who has been described as the "father of the medical marijuana movement", was then fired by Oaksterdam University, a leading proponent of ballot initiatives to legalize-and-tax marijuana.[28]

In response, Peron has begun a weekly picket at the Coffeeshop Blue Sky medical marijuana dispensary, owned by Richard Lee. The picket takes place on Friday evenings.

Jack Herer co-authored Proposition 215 with Peron. Herer also opposes the taxation of marijuana. He gave a speech at Oregon's HempStalk Festival on September 12th, 2009 during which he decried what he calls "cannabusiness", indicating his opposition to the taxation of marijuana:

"I don't want to f**king give the United States government one f**king dollar of taxes. I think that they should go to f**king jail for getting you and me and 20 million people getting arrested for pot. It is the safest thing you can do in the universe. And that is what we are going to do in California." Stay Medical, Stay Legal, Stay Safe!

 

[F_T_P!]

Firing of Dennis Peron

Dennis Peron, the co-author of California Proposition 215 (1996), spoke out against the taxation of marijuana in August 2009. Peron, who has been described as the "father of the medical marijuana movement", was then fired by Oaksterdam University, a leading proponent of ballot initiatives to legalize-and-tax marijuana.[28]

In response, Peron has begun a weekly picket at the Coffeeshop Blue Sky medical marijuana dispensary, owned by Richard Lee. The picket takes place on Friday evenings.

Jack Herer co-authored Proposition 215 with Peron. Herer also opposes the taxation of marijuana. He gave a speech at Oregon's HempStalk Festival on September 12th, 2009 during which he decried what he calls "cannabusiness", indicating his opposition to the taxation of marijuana:

"I don't want to f**king give the United States government one f**king dollar of taxes. I think that they should go to f**king jail for getting you and me and 20 million people getting arrested for pot. It is the safest thing you can do in the universe. And that is what we are going to do in California." Stay Medical, Stay Legal, Stay Safe!

 

[Smoke Buddy]

I am voting NO. The reason? Its already essentially legal here. We as Californians have already given the rest of the states a great model for mmj laws. Its great I say no change from what we have.

Now in the past I would have absolutely voted yes but now that we have basically legal weed I NOT for changing it. Even those without recomendations have benefitted from the current law in that leo is way less focused on weed and especially the small time grower. All I see this new law as adding is corporations killing the small time breeder grower.

 

[ThcInfused]

So just to be clear, markscastle, you say keep Cannabis illegal and keep arresting the over 800,000 yearly?

BTW if you think Richard Lee has the wherewithall to compete with the big agricultural business's or the big alcohol or tobacco companies then you are smoking to much.
They already have contract growers, facilities to dry, process, as well as the trucks to distribute and contacts with retail liquor distributors as well as the experience of doing it with alcohol and tobacco for decades.

what about the over 800,000 arrests a year? Or is that good to keep prices high?
Unbelievable, think before you post....

-SamS

this is where i begin to be unsure. big tobacco and alcohol won't touch the cannabis industry (imho of course) because the feds are going to have a party busting large commercial grows especially at first. i DO NOT want any form of FEDERAL regulation on cannabis but i also don't want people going to jail for innocent victimless 'crimes'.

dont take this the wrong way i'm not trying to be rude/disrespectful
i am a huge fan of your haze x skunk cross by the way

 

[Toyot4]

I am voting NO. The reason? Its already essentially legal here. We as Californians have already given the rest of the states a great model for mmj laws. Its great I say no change from what we have.

Now in the past I would have absolutely voted yes but now that we have basically legal weed I NOT for changing it. Even those without recomendations have benefitted from the current law in that leo is way less focused on weed and especially the small time grower. All I see this new law as adding is corporations killing the small time breeder grower.

basically legal weed? where is this you speak of?

i think you are speaking of california, the state where you go to your doctor and lie about some sort of ailment you may have and he hands you a paper saying he recommend you try smoking pot to heal yourself.

if this is the definition of a mmj model which you think all 50 states should look up to, i think you gotta open your eyes a little bit and see what medicine should be all about.

i think its horrible that people have to go to a doctor to legally smoke weed, even if they are using it medically.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am voting NO. The reason? Its already essentially legal here. We as Californians have already given the rest of the states a great model for mmj laws. Its great I say no change from what we have.

Now in the past I would have absolutely voted yes but now that we have basically legal weed I NOT for changing it. Even those without recomendations have benefitted from the current law in that leo is way less focused on weed and especially the small time grower. All I see this new law as adding is corporations killing the small time breeder grower.

Smoke Buddy,
Do you even have any idea of the number of people arrested in California for Cannabis? What do you think? A few hundred? A few thousand? How about over 85,000, more then any other state in the USA. 215 has not helped these people now has it?
I am afraid that many growers will join hands with law enforcement and help the prohibitionists defeat Tc2010, unbelievable to say the least...
They all say it is all about not wanting big government in their biz, but if you compare that to the over 800,000 arrests for Cannabis yearly in the USA, to me it seems selfish and short sided to miss a chance to begin the change to end the arrests, but maybe it is because I have been waiting for this since 1965, and I am still waiting today...
I understand that many consider Jack Herer a leader, but in this issue, like many other hemp issues he was just plain wrong, remember Jack never even grew hemp, even if he was one of its biggest promoters, he really just hates government interference on the issue. But that does not help anyone in jail or the next 800,000 pluss that will be arrested next year. Same with Dennis Peron, all he cares about is the medical 215 issues, but under 215 over 85,000 Californian's were arrested last year, don't you want to help them? We need to begin the process to bring Cannabis from out in the cold, into the mainstream. Let Big Agriculture grow it, let Big Biz wholesale and retail it, let the government Tax and Regulate it. Lets begin with one small step to breaking the cycle of so many annual Cannabis arrests in the USA, first California then all of the USA.
If you hate big Biz and Big Government, do it to help the less fortunate then you that still do get arrested, over 85,000 in Calif last year and over 800,000 in the USA. You can still grow your own at home.
BTW for all the people that say they don't want to surrender any more control to the government, remember that with over 800,000 arrests a year they have one hell of a lot of control over a lot of people right now, destroying families, and lots worse. It needs to end.

-SamS

 

[vta]

Its already essentially legal here.

WOW....try saying that to the 80,000 people arrested last year for cannabis right here in California.

We as Californians have already given the rest of the states a great model for mmj laws. Its great I say no change from what we have.

For those confused with this law check this out...this thing were voting on in November, the TC2010, it's not about medical cannabis, it is about recreational cannabis. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't want to make up a lie then pay a Dr. money to get a rec. I know a few of them. "We got medical this", "We got medical that"...great! fantastic! you can grow, you can go to your club, you have no limits...everything is perfect. Oh except for the fact that a Dr.'s rec DOES NOT prevent arrest. It allows that recommendation to be presented at TRIAL. Now some places in Cali, cops see's your rec, no problem. Other areas they laugh at you and bust you and tell you to tell the judge. So if this law passes, all us med users will have even less to worry about...think about it.

So if your voting no because of medical laws, or your a medical user, rethink your decision. There are a few million cannabis users in California that will not have to fear jail if this passes.

 

[Toyot4]

WOW....try saying that to the 80,000 people arrested last year for cannabis right here in California.



For those confused with this law check this out...this thing were voting on in November, the TC2010, it's not about medical cannabis, it is about recreational cannabis. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't want to make up a lie then pay a Dr. money to get a rec. I know a few of them. "We got medical this", "We got medical that"...great! fantastic! you can grow, you can go to your club, you have no limits...everything is perfect. Oh except for the fact that a Dr.'s rec DOES NOT prevent arrest. It allows that recommendation to be presented at TRIAL. Now some places in Cali, cops see's your rec, no problem. Other areas they laugh at you and bust you and tell you to tell the judge. So if this law passes, all us med users will have even less to worry about...think about it.

So if your voting no because of medical laws, or your a medical user, rethink your decision. There are a few million cannabis users in California that will not have to fear jail if this passes.

could not of said it better myself.

 

[Voodoo]

except for the fact that a Dr.'s rec DOES NOT prevent arrest. It allows that recommendation to be presented at TRIAL. Now some places in Cali, cops see's your rec, no problem. Other areas they laugh at you and bust you and tell you to tell the judge.

Couldn't agree more. To those who say pot is already legal, I challenge you to plant marijuana in your front yard.

 

[Unsane]

There is not one legitimate reason to keep cannabis illegal in California. Most of the arguments perpetuated by members of this forum against the initiative are baseless. They are either grounded in a serious misunderstanding of the language of the initiative, a personal grudge against Richard Lee, or a short-sighted, selfish desire for black-market profits.

While the initiative backers have chosen to focus on the rhetoric of financial cost-benefit, Sam's post connects us with what I think is a more powerful rhetoric--the rhetoric of justice. It is simply an intolerable injustice to continue California's Cannabis Inquisition. To allow prohibition to continue is to allow the prison-industrial complex to continue to destroy the lives of countless Californians for simply growing or possessing a plant.

So, I am voting YES for legalization. To vote NO is to support an immoral and fiscally irresponsible War on Drugs, which is actually a War on Us.

I cant believe the votes are this close. IMHO anyone Who grows and would vote no on this bill should get the fuck off this site forever. This is about Americans gaining their freedom back in the long run. You people need to learn what delayed gratification is. you are never gonna get a perfect bill. You have to start some where. If you vote no on this You should go trade places with someone in prison for growing because you are obviously a sociopath that deserves it.