CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[Hash Zeppelin]

MOST IMPORTANT POINT I HAVE MADE IN THIS THREAD. and I am being nice again too. the caps are for joy

oh I have to make this point. Is is about what I like to call "the magic zone of being limited to states rights, at first."

There is a beautiful thing I just realized about this whole situation if cali legalizes. (All REAL Big businesses make in the billions each, not even the biggest pot shop is close to that, so dont consider blue sky and cali growers that went to Colorado big business) ACTUAL BIG BUSINESS CANT TOUCH THIS MARKET. It would fuck them. This market is designed for people with less money, just by default. all the old horrible laws and propaganda agaisnst pot made it this way. All large corporations obey FEDERAL LAW, and most international. They also listen to old people. They wont touch it. They have to much to risk financially, and image wise, to put a dime up on the gray market. This is due to the fact that it is way to much to money and time to invest in to something that isnt set in stone in law or social acceptance. They are already hurting to bad in the current world market to risk it. We must spin this to or advantage. Make our weakness our strength. Just like in greco roman wrestling

This leaves the door open for us to create our own system based on quality and small growers. Cali will be like Amsterdam. There will be a few big shops chains like Bull dog, and Green House, but there will be plenty of room for you small growers. The Big chains will be blue sky and what not, but this is capitolism and there will always be small business. Even in The Jet engine business their are small competitive folk. Why? they are always on the cutting edge, and hve some very nice artisan product.

The hash, and hemp market will explode too, opening up room for even more new small nitch grows. custom hash blends will be like secret recipes.

A legalized cali market would be the best thing you ever experienced.

we must do it like this. please read my whole thread it is full of good stuff and if we can get people on board in cali, and colorado it will be great for the small grower. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143213

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Be Big Picture People please.

Be Big Picture People please.

the deal is when you go to jail for a felony you dont just lose your freedom for a while when your there. you lose it forever. you loose your right to vote, and to buy guns, and basically free speech because no one will listen to you anymore or hire you.

You also lose all of your assets like your house and car. And if you have kids they are taken away by child protective services.

This bill could prevent all that. thus granting a lot more freedom, and at the same time pushing the national legalization movement forward.

people that are voting against this bill act as if taxes make you so unfree and jail plus felony record doesnt.

This bill is a big step to ENDING THE DRUG WAR as well..... and the drug war is what powers the private prison system, and is what is making the USA a prison and police state. I dont see how this bill is bad due to the fact that it help start to under mind and unravel that. Ending the drug war will also help take down big corporations like Phizer. Big pharma depends on the drug war.

The Drug war is the biggest reason we have lost so many other freedoms in America. When the people end the drug war freedom will return to America.

right now we dont have freedom we have the illusion of multiple choice.

The best choice is to just vote yes but still get a med card. Then you dont have to worry about the restrictions of this bill, because you can grow as much as you want anyways. with the way weed prices are dropping in cali already you might as well legalize. It will open up a new market, people that are scared to break the law but like pot (mostly parents). This will raise the demand some more again. Also The hash market will be the best on the planet.

THIS PART IS IMPORTANT
-here is another good reason to legalize. legalizing would under mind the US prison state, that 7% of the united states population already lives in. When you have a prison system based in the private sector, but is also funded by cash from the government (aka the people), it has to act like any other business in that situation. All business in the private sector is based on growth. If you are not growing then you are failing. Well..... the only way to grow a prison system is by getting more prisoners. The way they do that is with drug laws, and mandatory minimum sentences. Followed by over zealous parole times.

But, you cant stop people from using drugs so if you own a prison system what do you do next? you just let a doctor prescibe a pill made from a company you own. It is ok for you to do this because you have government clearance.

Well this is what has happened in America. THE SAME FAMILY OWNS THE PRIVATE PRISONS, AND THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG COMPANIES. WAKE UP HELP END THE DRUG WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________

 

[ocean_grown]

I'm just not going to vote. Either way it goes it won't make a difference for me, I'm just gonna have to get my state issued med card in order so they don't try and implement this fucking 5x5 bullshit growing area on me.. Not that authority figures will ever find their way into my grow

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^well instead of wasting your vote at least vote yes for the sake of keeping people out of prison. apathy is just as bad as voting no

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

It's decided I guess, cause nobody is posting..... The yes voters win this debate. If you were undecided or were going to vote no now you can read these facts and feel good about voting yes because you will actually be preventing the drug war from growing by taking a lot of money away from cartels. This will also shrink the government's say in what we can do with our own bodies, at least in cali. FEEL GOOD ABOUT VOTING YES IN NOVEMBER. IT IS MORALLY CORRECT. You will help the world by voting yes

thank you

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It is very important that in the poll two thirds voted Yes and one third No. To pass Tc1010 will need every vote it can get, if one third of the California growers vote NO it may well lose.
To imagine that growers would join the police, CHP, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association, and a whole lot more of the same minded people is scary to say the least. That growers will help defeat a bill to legalize Cannabis is just unbelievable.
No matter why they say NO, I say compare that to a chance to begin the path to end the arrests of over 800,000 Americans each year. To have a chance to try and stop it and not do so is almost a crime to me.

-SamS

 

[jjblunt]

To imagine that growers would join the police, CHP, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association, and a whole lot more of the same minded people is scary to say the least. That growers will help defeat a bill to legalize Cannabis is just unbelievable.

I agree Sam. Greed is the downfall of man. These growers owe their livelihood to cannabis, its pretty fucked up to want to keep it illegal all in the name of profit.

 

[Greensub]

It is very important that in the poll two thirds voted Yes and one third No. To pass Tc1010 will need every vote it can get, if one third of the California growers vote NO it may well lose.
To imagine that growers would join the police, CHP, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association, and a whole lot more of the same minded people is scary to say the least. That growers will help defeat a bill to legalize Cannabis is just unbelievable.
No matter why they say NO, I say compare that to a chance to begin the path to end the arrests of over 800,000 Americans each year. To have a chance to try and stop it and not do so is almost a crime to me.

-SamS

Ya... I was pretty surprised to see those numbers. However, I can't believe that growers are that large a percentage of the voting public so maybe it's not that negative of a number as it appears.

Is there any estimate that anyone knows of, of the number of growers in California? It can't be a very big percentage of the population... even if we all were to vote yes it's probably still a drop in the bucket.

Personally I look at the legalization of weed as an opportunity to grow bigger with less fear.

What does big business know about weed? Nothing compared to anyone here. When they do eventually catch up they'll be replacing the schwag portion of the market currently smuggled in.

That in and of it self is a strong argument for legalization... I'd rather buy a pack of Marlboro Greens than weed dumped in wet pile in the sun to dry, pissed on, and bricked-up with a tire jack.

I know that If I want to spend the money to get something I like better (demand) somebody (or myself) will supply it; like with fine wine vs. malt liquor.

Finally... Jobs, I think this law does protect us from employer drug testing, which is huge (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong)

 

[SOTF420]

Vote yes or the backlash of this not passing may never give us another chance anytime soon people. You can keep doing what you are doing, it will just be easier and alot less chance of you getting busted because there will be far less resources devoted to fighting Cannabis cultivation. You think it's easy to grow commercial now in Cali? Just wait until this law passes! There will not be choppers flying over your houses all the time looking for pot plants. Prices are not going to drop much if any, the demand for Cannabis will be even higher than it is now and our culture can grow & expand! If you don't vote YES for this then please just don't bother to fucking vote because you will be helping THEM out!

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^that is correct soft420

 

[igrowone]

It is very important that in the poll two thirds voted Yes and one third No. To pass Tc1010 will need every vote it can get, if one third of the California growers vote NO it may well lose.
To imagine that growers would join the police, CHP, DEA, Narcs, Prison Guards, NIDA staff, Prohibitionists, DARE, Coalition for a Drug-Free California, California Narcotics Officers Association, California Police Chiefs Association, and a whole lot more of the same minded people is scary to say the least. That growers will help defeat a bill to legalize Cannabis is just unbelievable.
No matter why they say NO, I say compare that to a chance to begin the path to end the arrests of over 800,000 Americans each year. To have a chance to try and stop it and not do so is almost a crime to me.

-SamS

when someone said fact is stranger than fiction, they were very far seeing
growers/smokers voting against legalization? utterly insane
but the law of unintended consequences may prevail
there seem to be some indications the average Cali voter is taking notice
if some growers are voting against legalization, whose interests are being served?

 

[subrob]

4 out of 10 say no so far? embarassing...humiliating...shameful....i hope the sensible people in cali can win the hearts and minds of those of you who arent...well...lets say...arent going to vote for change...cuz im just bout done caring....this debate has made me realize many things about what used to be the "community"...chief among them...the anti med people were RIGHT...prop 215 is obviously the worst thing that ever happened to the legalization movement.....i think if this doesnt pass...im done giving a shit...done fighting...done caring about my "fellow growers" what a load of shit...enjoy your blood money peeps....

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^dont give up man. keep trying and just hope people do the right thing when they are alone in the booth and vote yes.

It is proven in the history of our government that things change slowly, and there are many critical foot holds along the way, and this is one of them.

 

[BirdManFlyHigh]

Good Luck
hopefully it wont drive prices down too much so that you can still afford the nutes you want and keep the lights running.

 

[Unsane]

Back to the original question: should cannabis be legalized?

Well, yes--the NAACP seems to think so. From the LA Times

State NAACP backs marijuana legalization initiative

Saying that prohibition takes a heavy toll on minorities, leaders of the NAACP's California chapter announced Monday that they are backing passage of a marijuana legalization initiative on the November ballot.

The war on drugs is a failure and disproportionately targets young men and women of color, particularly African-American males, said Alice Huffman, president of the NAACP's state conference.

The group cited statistics from the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice showing that in 2009, 62% of the state's marijuana arrests were of nonwhite suspects and that 42% were under 20.

The pattern was consistent in the state's 25 largest counties, with arrests of African Americans at double, triple and quadruple the rate of whites even though studies show that blacks use marijuana at lower rates than whites, NAACP officials said.

"We are joining a growing number of medical professionals, labor organizations, law enforcement authorities, local municipalities and approximately 56% of the public in saying that it is time to decriminalize the use of marijuana," Huffman said in a prepared statement.

November's measure, if approved, would allow people 21 and older to legally possess an ounce of cannabis. Marijuana sales would be taxed, potentially raising billions of dollars for government services. Opponents say legalization would increase crime and drug dependency.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/06/state-naacp-backs-marijuana-legalization.html

Good news indeed for PROP 19

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^another great point. anything that helps end the drug war also helps end the unjust treatment of minorities in our crooked ass legal system.

 

[can.i.buz]

This will be debated live at the KROQ SmokeOut in October. Dennis Paron will be on the panel as well as an attorney specializing in defending mmj patients and a lobbyist working for LEO. Richard Lee said that he retired from public speaking but after I visited him, he agreed to put a priority on attending. Tom Ammiano is working on being there too. It will be an honest, intelligent debate. The issues are complicated. I think we all want to do the right thing, we just have questions. As the time gets closer, I'll post more details. We will also be having a huge voter registration drive. The most important thing is that we all take voting seriously, be informed, and work for the greater good.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I would be surprised if commercial grows under lights indoors can compete economically with outdoor or greenhouse grows, lets be honest.
Outdoors I can grow a plant that dry will yield over one kilo easily for less then $100, minus the manicuring. I can grow a dozen kilo plants for way less then $1,000, indoor growers can't compete with Agri-Biz, but they can grow their own personal if they want to. Things will change for sure, and about time I say...
800,000 plus annual arrests are too many for way to long.
Tax and Regulate Cannabis now!

-SamS

Good Luck
hopefully it wont drive prices down too much so that you can still afford the nutes you want and keep the lights running.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

it is harder to produce quality outdoor herb imho. there is floating pollen. there is animals and bugs that are much more abundant outside. Indoors organic hydro nutrients with dwc can produce the cleanest medical grade pot around I think. Not to say I dont love sun grown dank, and if done right it is just as good, but indoor environment is easier to control.
I think you are 100% right about green houses. large sealable green houses are the ultimate because it has the best of both worlds, and will become the biggest method of growing.

 

[joaquin386]

Totally agree with Sam Legalize and Tax Cannabis.