Butte County

[Yes4Prop215]

i can go around and ask people i know but most of the more well off growers i know are leaving butte county and dont care, or they are from other counties. generally from what I've seen and growers I've met in butte alot aren't the smartest financially. i do have some people i can talk to and ask to see if they are interested in contributing. i feel like most of my money should go to yuba now as they are lightyears beyond buttes progress.

who hired the 50k lawyer was that for the lawsuit with the 4 patients? theres supposed to be an update may 13-14th or so if the county doesn't delay.

Lease agreements, you're simply an owner of multiple properties.

Butte is financially broke, so is Yuba, and losing a high profile, drawn-out legal case will surely sober the powers that be. The JointedOne had a point with his counter culture comment. Trinity, Humboldt and Mendocinco know this well.

yea maybe I'm just being too cautious, compared to the crazy shit i was doing back in the day being caught for cultivation aint a big deal. but im worried because they have pressed quite a few charges lately criminally in Butte, 75% are because of BHO but i still see a few growers get thrown in there too. also because the wording on most of the new legalization bills says that previous violations of local ordinances or felony charges related to marijuana automatically disqualifies from participation in the legal market.

 

[Sunfire]

That's what jeff and the pony tail guy said. They handed the guy 50k and he said that take of things for the next two years.

I seriously almost capped my pants when I heard that!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

That's what jeff and the pony tail guy said. They handed the guy 50k and he said that take of things for the next two years.

I seriously almost capped my pants when I heard that!

The Butte situation is pretty dim right now. My meeting with Rob was very detailed and informative, but didn't produce the best news.

My entire situation was explained, and he applauded my denial of initial search and the way i handled communicating with CE officers. Kill them with kindness!

Anyways a quick breakdown.
1) LibertyRising and the advice being given by some of the extremists within that group (Mainly Zeke) is NOT SOUND and should NOT be followed. They have no case law, and their advice (dont pay fines, legal technical jargon) will only piss off the county more. Sadly, because code enforcement is administrative law, they are not subject to the same strict standards of criminal law. They have a huge amount of power, and case law backs it up. They are technically allowed to trespass on properties with no gates or fences. The only time outdoor space is truly private is if it is totally enclosed. Code enforcement is not liable for some 4th amendment violations due to some prior case law that gives them damn near fucking invincibility to the argument of unreasonable search and seizure. its ridiculous and downright wrong, but this is why counties are going with administrative code enforcement because its way easier and less liability.

2) The organization of the Butte county growers movement is in shambles, and its downright fucking pathetic. Rob was one of the main people who helped pass measure B back in the glory days of butte, when we were at our strongest. However, he says that lately actual support is very slim. The movement has had a hard time getting any volunteers or boots on the ground. Most of the growers who cared have left the county, people like andrew merkel have been absent, and other growers are such hermits they dont want to be involved with any lawsuits. There has been alot of infighting within the top people that helped passed measure B, and along with the influx of the ultra libertarians the infighting has gotten worse.

On the flip side, our opposition has never been stronger. He blames it mostly on Larry Wahl, Dan Logue, the butte county GOP (lots of GOP money to grab conservative anti marijuana votes)…. the sheriffs and police unions (they need to keep the police state and drug money flowing) the farmers unions (they have sadly been tricked into thinking we are their competition for water and resources), and the majority of the conservative anti marijuana people in Butte County that have come out in force, largely due to the antics of rogue black market growers who have ruined our reputation tremendously.

He basically said he is not really interested in pursuing any kind of legal action against the county, the experience has "soured" him. He would need tremendous resources and people to do anything. Unless this current lawsuit can change things, then only time will help the growers here once the county spends too much $$$ and tapers back enforcement.

3) If you have possible permit violations outside of cultivation (grading, illegal structures) then he recommends taking action before compliance notice is actually served, to show proof to them that the property owner was already attempting to correct issues prior to citation. For example, he recommends hiring a civil engineer to come out and conduct "erosion control" on any unpermitted terraces. This gives one the argument that the property owner is merely attempting to fix unpermitted grading from previous tenants. He said that property violations are much more serious than cultivation citations, the county has been actively pursuing things like grading and water runoff, those are much more expensive things to fix than a cultivation ticket.

4) Yuba county has a great fucking group of people, seriously impressed. there had to be almost 100 at the last meeting sun fire? and damn your lawyers have got some fire under their asses, and so do the people. Butte counties meetings have been under 15 people usually and they just bicker about 4th amendment and how to duck the police. Yuba has people out collective signatures, forcing recalls, spreading propaganda, creating nonprofit education groups, and on the offensive with legal challenges.

 

[Sunfire]

I'm sure it's different from county to county, but at one point I was on a first name basis with Tony cuadalupe who's now retired but was the senior building inspector of yuba county. He once told me that I seemed to know more about the laws then he does. I looked into them heavily before I moved in here about 5 years ago. The laws are very vague. In regards to grading or terracing the law stated you could not move more than 20 yards of dirt "at one time." Well wtf does that mean I asked? There's no definition of time frame with the phrase "at one time." The public works officials and code enforcement know very little about the actual laws and when engaged in educated conversation they get very confused and admit to not knowing. Knowledge is you best weapon. Try to pull out some actual code sections and laws to quote.

As far as run off is concerned, in yuba, there's a gallon amount that is ear marked as hazardous and that's 5000 gallons and once again there is no time refference. So pretty much you can't have a holding tank larger than 5k gallons incase it ruptures as the run off could do some gnarly damage.

They would have to prove in court, atleast in yuba cause idk about butte, that you moved more than 20 yards "at one time" or leaked more than 5k gallons. Well that would be very hard to do.

Illegal structures and driveways without encroachment permits are their number 1. If you have a trailer there no one is living in it as that requires a permit. If you are in the county limits you don't need a permit to "store" the trailer. Any building less then 120 square feet does not need a permit. Any article such as a stored trailer or a small building is not to be inspected, period. Therefore any water or electrical ran to it is also not to be inspected. If you just have bare Romex running over ground though you might get turned over to CDF though so also least make some pvc conduit.

 

[oneofus]

if you're looking for a different county to grow outdoors in, has anyone thought of modoc county?

12 plants per patient per property/parcel with a maximum of two patients per residence on said property. 24 plants per property. no previous residency requirement.

outdoors/full sun (has to be screened)or in a separate enclosed secure structure with no size limitations on it.

no sq. ft. limitations - at all.

no minimum property sizes.

just the plant count. that's it.

electricity @ 6.7 cents per kw/hr with no tiers. as in flat rate.

land with just a well and septic is beyond ridiculously cheap. buy four separate parcels. 4x24=96 plants. put two of your crew on each parcel with a "tiny house" on skids so you can slide it on to cement blocks. makes it a permanent residence which is required. google "tiny house on skids". very cheap. put 'em on a small flat-bed trailer and tow them there yourself.

if you want to see the codified ordinance google "code modoc california". look under title 18.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

the thing about hopscotching between counties is that eventually alot of them will pass ordinances, they have been following the same blueprint of the shasta ordinances, just copy and pasting them to every county.

butte had some of the best plant counts in CA, 48 on 10 acres, 72 on 20, 99 on 40. and overnight it went to 150sq ft. before moving to a county make sure to really study the BOS and see what their future plans are.

everybody is also talking about calaveras but they have a possible ban in the works. lake county reversed theres but the limits are still pretty low. placer held off but again low limits, but i like that area close to grass valley where I've always wanted to be at. would love to be in nevada county but they are proposing a stricter sq ft limit as well.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Cali upcoming legalization really setting the playing field right now with all these home grow bans...It's fine with me..I don't think people should be growing in town at all on a scale where they could have excess...You want to grow 6 plants in town? Cool do that...Don't try to tell me what to do on 40 acres out of town though that's completely set up as a working farm...Pot is only one thing that we grow...I'll laugh at you...

 

[tankerton]

Prop- the one thing butte growers seem to be forgetting is that the plant counts didn't change overnight. They were adopted, we referended, we had one more season, and then we got walloped on Election Day. At one point before the supervisors changed the ordinance they were offering to only cut our plant numbers in half. Andrew wouldn't accept that and Rob wouldn't accept the elimination of the citizen proximity complaint system. When it became clear that measure b supporters would referend any changes to the ordinance the supervisors went for their 150 sq ft/ cultivation ban. Rob and Andrew clearly overplayed their hand.
Moving forward does Butte county have a future in cultivation? It's a long shot because we have a horrible pr problem. The sad thing is I have been in Butte for a decade now. I moved here when I was 22 and got right to work. I love it I thought I would raise my family here but this is probably my last year before I move back to the east coast to be closer to my family. I just don't have the energy to deal with California's bullshit anymore.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Cali upcoming legalization really setting the playing field right now with all these home grow bans...It's fine with me..I don't think people should be growing in town at all on a scale where they could have excess...You want to grow 6 plants in town? Cool do that...Don't try to tell me what to do on 40 acres out of town though that's completely set up as a working farm...Pot is only one thing that we grow...I'll laugh at you...

well that might work for backyard residential grows, i agree that blowing out a backyard in a suburban neighborhood with plants wall to wall is pretty out of line. but measure A doesn't even allow 6 plants, 50sq ft is maybe 1-2 at the most, that is no where near enough to last patients a year on full season harvest, maybe indoor is sustainable for personal use but that requires people to spend more money on set up and PGE. and I'm on acreage and can be set up as a farm with acres between me and closest neighbors, and they are fucking with plenty of grows like me. pretty much its just eliminating competition for the rest of you guys who can still grow so I'm sure you see positive in that. I want to see some kind of system set up where if you want to grow larger like say 2-3000 sq ft, 50-99 plants etc you can just pay a permit fee of some kind.

tankerton- yea i learned about that earlier about the plant counts…rumors are andrew has ducked out of town too, rob has nothing to do with anything in butte cannabis movement either. and yea i feel the same way and if theres no organized movement then its time to move on as well. rob was right in fighting to keep it civilian complaint because once it went anonymous it allowed the sheriff to create their own tips and that is extremely fucked up. this needs to be 100% neighbor complaint based, from neighbors who live right near the grow and have to deal with it. but every lawyer i talked to say they are abusing the system to their benefit.


so 5/5 they conducted a bunch of checks again in east O in the same areas they had been at before, mostly rechecks i think. they edited out the addresses that day so can't know for sure. maybe they got smart and realized people were checking the public logs.

5/6 only one check conducted in gridly

5/7
grand ave @ gold country, thermalito
simpson ranch rd, berry creek
leaf ln, berry creek
Bald Rock rd @ Deer Springs, Berry Creek
Mills Ranch rd @ Lumpkin Rd, East Oroville
Fulton Ave @ Messina, Palermo
South Villa Ave, Palermo
Palermo honcut @ brown, palermo
lincoln ave @ palermo, Palermo (right near the post office wtf?)


shows they are expanding outside the normal oroville area and are starting to reach out into areas like B creek.

 

[mapinguari]

pretty much its just eliminating competition for the rest of you guys who can still grow so I'm sure you see positive in that.
....

so 5/5 they conducted a bunch of checks again in east O in the same areas they had been at before, mostly rechecks i think.

BYF would have a point if these ordinances targeted suburban neighborhoods; apparently he hasn't been following the BFE ramblings of various counties' code enforcement/sheriffs.

Y4P215, I haven't seen you mention certain areas, like Butte Creek Canyon, where locals have long grown. Are those places getting a pass in favor of Oroville and surrounds?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

I've only been following the compliance checks for the last two weeks and I havent seen anything in that area. Right now east oroville around lakeside is the hottest area in Butte, according to the locals up there it's because of a retired judge and a cranky old lady who have been proactive in calling in anonymous R complaints on every property up there. Also there's accusations of "coaching" some of these peice of shit measure A supporters to use Google maps and call in complaints on any properties with grows visible.

 

[theJointedOne]

Yea, from yes4's posts and talking to my boys down there, it seems there are some 'protected' hoods that probably will roll through the season fine.

 

[oneofus]

lol i'm not talking about jumping from one county to another after another. i'm talking about moving there.

As far as the bos goes, they're done with it. finito. they don't want to hear about it anymore. they couldn't wash their hands of it quickly enough. lol you can even see that attitude in the language in the drafts vs. the final ordinance they passed. they're not going to change a thing.

....did I mention 6.7 cents/kw/h...flat rate?

just putting info out there for anyone who might want to move from butte/yuba to a more friendly place...

 

[Sunfire]

Prop- the one thing butte growers seem to be forgetting is that the plant counts didn't change overnight. They were adopted, we referended, we had one more season, and then we got walloped on Election Day. At one point before the supervisors changed the ordinance they were offering to only cut our plant numbers in half. Andrew wouldn't accept that and Rob wouldn't accept the elimination of the citizen proximity complaint system. When it became clear that measure b supporters would referend any changes to the ordinance the supervisors went for their 150 sq ft/ cultivation ban. Rob and Andrew clearly overplayed their hand. Andrew's posturing in board meetings didn't help either and be really has no credibility in this county anymore so anyone hoping for him to be the savior is mistaken.
Moving forward does Butte county have a future in cultivation? It's a long shot because we have a horrible pr problem. The sad thing is I have been in Butte for a decade now. I moved here when I was 22 and got right to work. I love it I thought I would raise my family here but this is probably my last year before I move back to the east coast to be closer to my family. I just don't have the energy to deal with California's bullshit anymore.

This is a joke right? A totally fallacious straw man tactic. You got to be joking? You have no one to blame but the voters (or lack there of) in butte county. 16k signatures went on the refferandum. Less than 5k people actually votes and you guys lost. So that means out of 16k pro growers less than 2.5k actually went and voted.

from a strategic standpoint I wouldn't take any deals from the county either if a 16k signature refferandum was landed. No one is to blame for that except the growers of butte county.

Furthermore it's sad to see blame being put on the people who tried to help. That's some bullshit. They tried to help you guys but because the war was lost you want to blame the officers leading the charge? Atleast they tried. With no support from the troops how can you expect a win? When 16k soldiers enlist but more then 13.5k go AWOL when its time for battle, of course the war will be lost.

Lmao holy shit prop! Sounds like you've some explaining to do? Whether what that guy says is true or not, politics must always maintain an image of kindest and integrity, even if it's fake which in most cases is the truth.

 

[oldCounty]

Is there any group even worth volunteering for in Butte? Speeding ticket tactics, as in "My name is John not JOHN," from the current group won't get my support.

I have a background in hobbyist programming/webdev/online marketing, so if these skills are in need, let me know. I remember the group BBCAG? Or whatever it was, they had posters at a few spots saying "donate now!", yet lacked any way to donate. Visiting the website got you 1 or 2 pages that worked, while a bunch were just dead links. No way to donate, no nothing. An email sent off never got a reply

It was a joke and my thought at the time was that it was intentional. To weaken us. Butte may be lost, unfortunately the funds for moving aren't available personally. I've heard of more visits around me, they couldn't get them on plants, so they got them on bullsit. Unpermitted GH, you can't use that plastic as a cover, can't run electricity, pre-bought grading, blah blah blah. I'm just going to assume I'm on the list and hope Sept. crops come before they do.

Psi Haze - you wiill never have a viable seed bank as long as I have access to the internet. I know SEO, any name you pick will turn into goatse. I have all of your posts backed up, your word is shit.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

I've heard of more visits around me, they couldn't get them on plants, so they got them on bullsit. Unpermitted GH, you can't use that plastic as a cover, can't run electricity, pre-bought grading, blah blah blah..

.

the grading violations are worse than the cultivation nuisance violation. i would recommend all of those with grading on their properties to call a civil engineer and apply for a topographical and erosion control plan, and get the plans stamped so if a abatement is ordered you can prove to the county you were trying to handle it before the notice was served. it will cost around 6k, and come out around 10k after permits. but you will be saving yourself from a red tag on property. i made a huge mistake trying to pull this off without permits, should have listened to cannido! should have never even gotten this ambitious with the GHs, but i am gonna pursue some kind of legal crops in there a friend grows and sells passionflower, roses and other flowers and some are even made into extract so it sounds interesting.

also i heard the same thing about the plastic cover, but the frames themselves should be good as long as they aren't made of PVC. butte is having a deal through june that allows those with unpermitted buildings to apply and pay around half the fees involved. i am gonna ask Rob about this next week but he said that he doesn't foresee the GH needing a permit unless it has a concrete foundation.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

there was a recent study done in nevada county that estimated the yearly crop value at around 60 million per year. i was hoping to find out where to find buttes numbers, and then hopefully Yubas as well. i think having a strong financial study to have a better understanding of what we contribute to the economy would really help our cause.

DA ramsey claimed a few years ago there were an estimated 3,000 grows in butte county. if we did an average of 50k gross revenue per garden (low side i feel), thats still 150 million dollars that are being pumped into just one county in rural norcal. add up shasta down to placer and i bet we are more than 500 million. talk about an economic stimulus! that would look good in media print, how the BOS of butte and yuba county want to spend 1 million dollars in tax payer money to stifle 100+ million dollars of revenue, when other counties and states are doing the opposite and bringing in big tax revenue. the colorado numbers would be easy to pull because they are already printed.

sunfire- psi haze had a clear mental breakdown and his posts have no merit, the mods checked all PMs and he was the one banned. he sent me numerous messages celebrating the recent measure A checks and busts including myself and friends and then claimed to have called the cops on me, claimed that i threatened him with violence, but when checking the PMs its clear that he was totally exaggerating the content. id invite him to even post the content himself and i bet everyone will get a laugh at how much he stretched what was said.

any grower who snitches on his fellow grower, and celebrates the fact that numerous growers are being prosecuted by this draconian law, will be banned immediately. doesn't help his cause when some of the very moderators on this website have been the victims of overstrictive grow ordinances. losing your livelihood and dream job is one of the worst feelings any cannabis farmer ever has to deal with. even with my gardens empty, we live in constant threat of government intrusion because we are medical marijuana patients and caregivers. my only hope is that I've seen countless of my fellow growers face this adversity through busts, robberies, and in due time they all get back on their feet and make their dreams happen.

 

[MrBelvedere]

Prop you will bounce back bigger and better than before. It always happens. You will move onto greener pastures. Every time I've ever had a huge setback it ended up being a huge blessing in disquise. The industry is in a race to the bottom, in XX number of years passionflower will be worth more than herb on any market.

California does not have enough growers who vote, or even take 20 minutes to call politicians or try to shape public opinion. The handwriting is on the wall, six plant personal grows and commercial growers with unlimited plant counts, tomatoes will be worth more than herb.

Divide and Conquer works every time!

Always lease, never buy.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

First, inspectors are pretty much at the low end of the county planning & building totem pole. Their primary job is to inspect permitted building projects. In poorer counties where they cant afford a lot of county employees, the building inspector may also be required to tend the office coffee pot...

That said, being buddies with any building inspector may get you a green tag quicker/easier but other than that, he has no role in creating or enforcing your local ordinances. His role is to merely insure your project is built to local and governmental code standards. But be forewarned- If Mr Inspector comes to inspect your project and he sees something else going on that should also have required a permit, he is bound to report it, just to cover his ass...

Planning, zoning & building code requirements will vary somewhat from county to county. An example would be - hurricane straps are required in hurricane prone areas such as Florida while in Cali, its all about earthquake codes. But they are what they imply- Codes & Ordinances. Some are universal and fall under UBC guidelines (Uniform Building Codes) which is more or less country wide while additional codes are, as I said, specific to individual counties.

"At one time", relates, more or less, to the permit application. If you file a permit to build a detached structure and indicate sizable dirt work, this will be your "at one time". It begins and ends with the permit. It is indicated in your permit app as - 'Scope of Work".

The bottom line here folks is this - The legal battle will go on regarding these county bans and maybe they will eventually be lifted/rescinded. That is the long run. You wanna be an activist, this is your chance. Hell, even a few martyrs wouldnt hurt. Buy a suit and tie and head for the local court house, then to the circuit court and on to the Supreme Court if you feel this is your destiny. You can even hire a pack of yep-yep lawyers to make the journey for you but they get paid by the mile with absolutely no guarantees. But know this- nothing is likely to change during the upcoming season. That is reality.

The short run is the upcoming season. Fair or not, legal or not, if you do not figure out how to operate within the now implemented guidelines, grief & hassle will visit your door step. It would be foolish for anyone in this game while facing the newly applied ordinance game rules to take for gospel, any advice as to what you should or shouldnt do other than:

This is all now, more or less, a county controlled game and it is all about permits, ordinance violations, fines etc. The sheriff is just a back figure used primarily for intimidation unless you decide to go postal. Go to your county's website and study the codes. You dont need a lawyer for that. All the info you need is there. Devise a new game plan based on what the codes and ordinances give you. You might be surprised how far you can get and how much wiggle room you can create from reading and understanding the guidelines. Dont sit on your ass and think someone from this site is going to give you the easy & accurate answer your wanting. It may not apply to you! Believing nothing has changed and its business as usual or planting 99 out of spite or because you think have the 215 given right is most likely going to be a huge under-estimation as to county determination during this mess...

Its time to plant...For now, like it as not, going big is a thing of the past in some counties. Which is to say- Do your grower homework -50% of something is better than a 100% of nothing....cc

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

the grading violations are worse than the cultivation nuisance violation. i would recommend all of those with grading on their properties to call a civil engineer and apply for a topographical and erosion control plan, and get the plans stamped so if a abatement is ordered you can prove to the county you were trying to handle it before the notice was served. it will cost around 6k, and come out around 10k after permits. but you will be saving yourself from a red tag on property. i made a huge mistake trying to pull this off without permits, should have listened to cannido! should have never even gotten this ambitious with the GHs, but i am gonna pursue some kind of legal crops in there a friend grows and sells passionflower, roses and other flowers and some are even made into extract so it sounds interesting.

also i heard the same thing about the plastic cover, but the frames themselves should be good as long as they aren't made of PVC. butte is having a deal through june that allows those with unpermitted buildings to apply and pay around half the fees involved. i am gonna ask Rob about this next week but he said that he doesn't foresee the GH needing a permit unless it has a concrete foundation.

Whoa up Prop. Calm down there pard. No need to go gettin all crazy with your dough here. Engineers, erosion plans & topos etc are way overkill and just not necessary. At least not out of the gate.

First, if you apply for a permit, depending on what you reveal as to your 'Scope of Work", the county plan review boys will tell you what you need. LET THEM TELL YOU what is required. They may miss something which can work in your favor. You will be required to provide 7 Site Plan copies, each going to a different dept, including Flood. Trust me, by the time all 7 depts get a gander at your plans, you will know exactly what you need to do and that will only cost the amount of the permit fee itself. You will also have time to decide WHETHER YOU WANT TO PROCEED.

Your Scope of Work description should be - Example : 20 x 30 detached building or 20 x 30 greenhouse. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less. You will be required to provide in your Site Plan all drainage areas in relation to your structure location. In your building plans, you will provide a foundation/pad drawing. Flood Dept will size up your indicated drainage areas with the type of foundation your going with and determine excavation/engineering requirements, IF ANY. Again, sit back and let the boys tell you the what, where, when and how.

Its all about providing ONLY the minimum info as to what youre doing. If your working under a permit, there are no red tags. Only "failed inspections' which you have the opportunity to correct. Something has to go seriously wrong for the inspector to red tag your project. In order to get plans "stamped", you have to already have been issued a permit. Hiring an engineer before submitting your plans to the county is the cart before the horse no matter what an civil engineer tells you ...Your project MAY NOT require engineering. THE COUNTY WILL TELL YOU IF YOU NEED engineering and for nothing more than than the cost of the permit. Certainly not $10 grand.

Abatements are a totally separate thing and dont come into play if you have a permit and go thru the inspection process. An abatement is usually only applied when the property owner refuses to comply with a complaint action.

I gotta say man, youre making this whole thing harder than it needs to be. i dont like the permit process any more than the next guy but the alternatives, under the present climate are even worse, as you are discovering. You really need to stop listening to other parties, file a permit app and get the actually low down and then just do it...or dont...cc