Butane Residue Test Results

[Hydrosun]

I just don't get it, 11X??? And supposedly you guys are cleaning it up 100% by a simple pass through your CLS?

Are our passes simple? Most of us evaporate and pass through a dryer filter, then compress recover with a pump and heat exchanging coil.

The solvent we are distilling are supposed to be pure to begin with (5x, 7x, .999, etc.)

I am interested to see how different the 3,5, and 7x cans from Ignitus are from one another.

Also I use a full soak under pressure, about 10lbs of solvent per 1kg of material processed. I turn over a full 24lb tank with every 2.4kg processed; therefore the solvent I use is re-distilled all the time.

 

[GratefulOne]

Does the 5x, 7x, 11x mean it was filtered or distilled this many times? I always assumed they meant basic filtering.

 

[flatslabs]

Most of the cans I have seen specify X Filtered and X Refined, don't recall any specifically saying how many times they have been distilled but I am sure there are some.

I am sure each company has their own standard of what "filtered" and "refined" constitutes.

 

[GratefulOne]

Ya it is all marketing by the time it gets on the can.

 

[A6 Grower]

Are our passes simple? Most of us evaporate and pass through a dryer filter, then compress recover with a pump and heat exchanging coil.

The solvent we are distilling are supposed to be pure to begin with (5x, 7x, .999, etc.)

I am interested to see how different the 3,5, and 7x cans from Ignitus are from one another.

Also I use a full soak under pressure, about 10lbs of solvent per 1kg of material processed. I turn over a full 24lb tank with every 2.4kg processed; therefore the solvent I use is re-distilled all the time.

I take my distill one step further and distill threw already ran material and leave my collection pot dirty with some leftover oil. My thought is that from what the labs say pentane and all the heavy solvents we dont want that are below butane are much harder to pull out of the oil then just by themselves. I want to pay to have a batch of my distilled canned butane tested for PPM levels of all the hydrocarbons im recovering to see if my theory is right. Time and funds always have a way of disappearing on me...

 

[Chonkski]

I just distill at the same temp I normally would do a run at, or even 5° lower, and I never recover pass 0psi..

I figure, whatever I pulled out once at that temp and pressure, will easily be pulled out again.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Does the 5x, 7x, 11x mean it was filtered or distilled this many times? I always assumed they meant basic filtering.

That is one of the biggest basic questions that no one will fully fill us in on...

Here's a couple of scraps of info I think contain enough truth to be shared:

"We begin by sourcing clean crude oil from the Gulf of Mexico, which we refine in Shreveport Louisiana. Through fractional distillation it is triple refined, and subsequently filtered 7 times to bring it to a purity of 99.9998%."
http://www.puretane.us/us/


and this eBay ad's description,

"NEW!! Whip-it! 7X
(the gas professionals) "from same factory as power7x with additional cold filter"
Made in Korea
Purified 7x
times through
several chambers
of active carbon towers, which are made of
charcoal filters that refine the Whip-It!
butane gas from all impurities and odor.
Further purified through a molecular sieve,
known as synthetic zeolites, ensuring final
product with zero impurities."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-cans-Whi...053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8034501d

Whip-it!'s making the same general claim in all of it's ads I've seen.


I'd like an 'official' (plant processing engineer's) explanation as to why vacuum distillation isn't working at the industrial level when you guys are claiming you're removing the volatile and non-volatile residue in one pass through a CLS. I asked this point blank to the guy I spoke with at Ignitus and only got space, even though he should have known the answer with the background he was claiming.

My two cents, just sharing it to let you know I don't know, and don't think the answer is in the public domain at this time...

 

[flatslabs]

The explanation I remember reading from puretane was that no matter where you source your butane or how many times you distill it, most of the companies use the same cheap cans to load it in and that is where a substantial portion of the "mystery oil" comes from is the can and valve manufacturing process and is why they switched to using their own PTFE lined cans.

 

[SkyHighLer]

The explanation I remember reading from puretane was that no matter where you source your butane or how many times you distill it, most of the companies use the same cheap cans to load it in and that is where a substantial portion of the "mystery oil" comes from is the can and valve manufacturing process and is why they switched to using their own PTFE lined cans.

The canned butane manufacturers do not have third party testing results to go on, they're relying on the word of floor managers both at the initial distillation stage and any later filtering stages.

Every canned butane rep I've spoken with has admitted this to me. When I offer to test their products, they know only to knock on wood as to the results. Ken at Capital takes the prize for being the most surprised... ;-))

So, how would they know if seamless, PTFE lined cans actually make a difference other than in theory???

Now let's move on...


Btw, the extremely simple, concise test I run is described at the bottom of this post,
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6079491&postcount=1

 

[flatslabs]

You must have edited your post before I replied and I didn't see it.

Doesn't your very own experimentation lead you to believe that the PTFE lined cans leave one of the least amount of residues per any of the canned samples you have tested? Its been a bit since I have looked at your list but I seem to recall the Puretane 9x was one of the lowest measurements. Is that just coincidence? I don't know.

 

[GratefulOne]

That is one of the biggest basic questions that no one will fully fill us in on...

Here's a couple of scraps of info I think contain enough truth to be shared:

"We begin by sourcing clean crude oil from the Gulf of Mexico, which we refine in Shreveport Louisiana. Through fractional distillation it is triple refined, and subsequently filtered 7 times to bring it to a purity of 99.9998%."
http://www.puretane.us/us/


and this eBay ad's description,

"NEW!! Whip-it! 7X
(the gas professionals) "from same factory as power7x with additional cold filter"
Made in Korea
Purified 7x
times through
several chambers
of active carbon towers, which are made of
charcoal filters that refine the Whip-It!
butane gas from all impurities and odor.
Further purified through a molecular sieve,
known as synthetic zeolites, ensuring final
product with zero impurities."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-cans-Whi...053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8034501d

Whip-it!'s making the same general claim in all of it's ads I've seen.


I'd like an 'official' (plant processing engineer's) explanation as to why vacuum distillation isn't working at the industrial level when you guys are claiming you're removing the volatile and non-volatile residue in one pass through a CLS. I asked this point blank to the guy I spoke with at Ignitus and only got space, even though he should have known the answer with the background he was claiming.

My two cents, just sharing it to let you know I don't know, and don't think the answer is in the public domain at this time...

To me that reads like filtering (the 5x,7x) is just filtering not distilling.

 

[SkyHighLer]

You must have edited your post before I replied and I didn't see it.

Doesn't your very own experimentation lead you to believe that the PTFE lined cans leave one of the least amount of residues per any of the canned samples you have tested? Its been a bit since I have looked at your list but I seem to recall the Puretane 9x was one of the lowest measurements. Is that just coincidence? I don't know.

The amount of residue we're talking when you juggle the numbers from with or without seam is so little if true, it makes it just fodder for the marketing guy, imho, basically insignificant compared the huge difference in amount of residue between the best and worst canned butanes I've tested.


Btw, in response to claims of Capital N-butane leaving behind gobs of yellowish residue when distilled in a CLS, I've an equal number of cans, seven, in the freezer for testing. All the cans will be boiled off in one test bag.

Here's the supposed 'Mystery Oil'

 

[JointOperation]

looks like contaiminated with rust .. must be the equipment they are using..

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

I use the 5x whip-it brand. I open blast as I'm not in a legal state, and a cls isn't real practical where I am. So distilling my tane' before use is also out of the question.

It seems to me though, that the "mystery oil" coming out of the cans, is from the cans themselves. You have guys like greywolf and greendot who distil their gas before use, and still pull a little bit of nasties from it. That's coming out of a tank, not a bunch of cans.

As far as the 3x,5x,7x,9x butane..........I mean seriously how can you take something from nothing. If there's only .000001 to begin with of "impurities' is it really worth it to pay the extreme price increase for a grade or two that's "supposedly" "cleaner". Your really paying for the packaging on them ones!!!! I feel once you get past 4-5x "refined" your just buying into a gimmick.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I use the 5x whip-it brand. I open blast as I'm not in a legal state, and a cls isn't real practical where I am. So distilling my tane' before use is also out of the question.

It seems to me though, that the "mystery oil" coming out of the cans, is from the cans themselves. You have guys like greywolf and greendot who distil their gas before use, and still pull a little bit of nasties from it. That's coming out of a tank, not a bunch of cans.

As far as the 3x,5x,7x,9x butane..........I mean seriously how can you take something from nothing. If there's only .000001 to begin with of "impurities' is it really worth it to pay the extreme price increase for a grade or two that's "supposedly" "cleaner". Your really paying for the packaging on them ones!!!! I feel once you get past 4-5x "refined" your just buying into a gimmick.

Yep, either whip-it!'s 5X or Special Blue's 5X is going for CHEAP! And they're nearly as clean as any of the others!!

 

[BrainChild]

I remember GW did a distillation and extraction with a case of puretane and posted the picture of the residue around the collection pot. From the pic it's got an oily greasy look to it. Maybe he'll chime in...This was posted on TC forums.

I've seen many pics of experienced people running CLS and distilling the butane and leaving behind a thick oily residue, most of the time it looks exactly like the oil that "Oil Jack" did when doing the experiments on canned butane. But that pic above looks like something different, rust perhaps?

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

Yep, either whip-it!'s 5X or Special Blue's 5X is going for CHEAP! And they're nearly as clean as any of the others!!

Going for cheap is right!!!! 2 CANS at most pays for a whole master case!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!! What I love even more is 5 lbs of trim given to me for free!!!!!!

 

[Hydrosun]

I use the 5x whip-it brand. I open blast as I'm not in a legal state, and a cls isn't real practical where I am. So distilling my tane' before use is also out of the question.

It seems to me though, that the "mystery oil" coming out of the cans, is from the cans themselves. You have guys like greywolf and greendot who distil their gas before use, and still pull a little bit of nasties from it. That's coming out of a tank, not a bunch of cans.

As far as the 3x,5x,7x,9x butane..........I mean seriously how can you take something from nothing. If there's only .000001 to begin with of "impurities' is it really worth it to pay the extreme price increase for a grade or two that's "supposedly" "cleaner". Your really paying for the packaging on them ones!!!! I feel once you get past 4-5x "refined" your just buying into a gimmick.

If you can open blast, then you can use a CLS in that very same environment.

Open blasting is dangerous, very dangerous. Spend 3K on a system, pumps, and hoses. Then buy the cheaper butane, distill it, and watch the savings add up. Also since you are recapturing the total spend on butane will plummet as will your risk of injury.

You'll make back that 3K pretty quickly.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I boiled off the seven cans of Capital N-butane and got a huge surprise, and the change wasn't from my test procedure, it went absolutely perfect. I put my remaining two cans in the freezer and will test them independently to see if they are in line with my original two tests. These two aren't going to be enough evidence to determine whether I just had one really, really bad can, possibly a fluke, among the seven, or if their uniformity is more widespread. I suppose I need another case from Capital, but I'm not spending my own $75 for it... I'll email them and see if they'll send me some more.

The bag as you can see from the pictures, even folded up to make the color stand out, is barely showing yellow tint. The picture the closed looper posted is definitely not what I'm seeing.

Capital N-butane, with seven cans boiled off in the same bag the weight of the residual was 0.188g, divided by seven, comes to 0.027g per can. Yuck!!!

 

[SkyHighLer]

Did the test on my last two cans of Capital N-butane, exact same yucky result. Revacuumed the test bag again and again, even added heat, still the same, the stuff is non-volatile. The only explanation that fits is something in the cans is exiting along with the butane that wasn't last year, maybe a sealant or something has taken this long to dissolve, sounds way too unlikely... huh!??

I boiled off both cans into the same test bag, the resulting weight of the residue comes out to 0.027(5)g per can, three times the amount I saw last year (0.008g and 0.009g per can.)

I have no grudge against Capital, if they would like to work with me to understand what's going on they have my number.