Bueno Grows w/ DIY COB LEDs

[Unclecrash]

Oh them must be the reds and blue's, did you build them too.

 

[Bueno Time]

Oh them must be the reds and blue's, did you build them too.

Yup, I built them. Got the heatsinks from heatsinkusa, leds from stevesled and acrc, and driver from fasttech.

 

[repuk]

Hi Bueno, impressive thread!

I'm considering to upgrade my setup, already have a HML setup with about 210W (check my sig if you want details).

Considering adding 4 CXA3070 COBs (found F2s) with a Meanwell HLG185H-C1050A.

My worries: this is a stealth cab, about 23"x23"x30"; as space is reduced, and height is limited I thought on using just 4, not 5 COBs.

Any disadvantage on running 4 COBs with that driver instead of 5 apart from efficiency? I thought maybe I could even tune amps down to reach a sweet efficiency spot.

What worries me is will that much power be too much for the height? Adding to my existing setup (210W) those extra 200W from the COBs?

 

[Bueno Time]

Hi Bueno, impressive thread!

I'm considering to upgrade my setup, already have a HML setup with about 210W (check my sig if you want details).

Considering adding 4 CXA3070 COBs (found F2s) with a Meanwell HLG185H-C1050A.

My worries: this is a stealth cab, about 23"x23"x30"; as space is reduced, and height is limited I thought on using just 4, not 5 COBs.

Any disadvantage on running 4 COBs with that driver instead of 5 apart from efficiency? I thought maybe I could even tune amps down to reach a sweet efficiency spot.

What worries me is will that much power be too much for the height? Adding to my existing setup (210W) those extra 200W from the COBs?

Thats a nice driver, you could run 4 CXA3070 on it and still get ~93% efficiency from the driver, 5 CXA3070 max on that driver. 4 @ 1050mA each (full power, undimmed) would be ~ 155w LED dissipation, then depending on what bin COBs you get you can determine your efficiency at 1050mA. You could of course dim down to 525mA or half power with the A version, B version you could setup to dim down even more with a combo of potentiometer and resistor. The lower the current the higher the efficiency and less power wasted in the form of heat.

For a ~4 sq ft footprint I think that 4 3070s would be good by themselves without adding to the light you already have. 200w should be more than enough for 4 sq ft so not sure why you want to add more but if your exhaust fan and ambient temps allow you to handle the extra heat of adding more lighting wattage go ahead and try it if you want. 30" is really short height wise though and you need some space above the COBs for airflow over the heatsinks/fans if you use them too, and also need a gap between the COBs and the canopy to allow the light to spread out to the sides and keep the tops from yellowing in the areas directly under the COBs. I have noticed my plants are incredibly more "hungry" under the COBs.

edit: just checked out your sig thread, I thought the HML was probably a company but I see it was home made. You could run the 4 3070s up top with your HML bars one on each side still hung horizontally but with the emitters angled towards the center so the heatsink at maybe a 45 degree angle. I dont know if your HML setup is dimmable but having the COBs dimmable would be good to adjust brightness and heat. If you do SCROGs (saw your mod scrogs in that thread) you should be able to keep the plant canopy lower more easily.

 

[repuk]

Hi, Bueno, thanks for your kind reply

Thats a nice driver, you could run 4 CXA3070 on it and still get ~93% efficiency from the driver, 5 CXA3070 max on that driver. 4 @ 1050mA each (full power, undimmed) would be ~ 155w LED dissipation, then depending on what bin COBs you get you can determine your efficiency at 1050mA. You could of course dim down to 525mA or half power with the A version, B version you could setup to dim down even more with a combo of potentiometer and resistor. The lower the current the higher the efficiency and less power wasted in the form of heat.

I'm getting Z2, couldn't find anything better... thought on running them at 1050 or less.

For a ~4 sq ft footprint I think that 4 3070s would be good by themselves without adding to the light you already have. 200w should be more than enough for 4 sq ft so not sure why you want to add more but if your exhaust fan and ambient temps allow you to handle the extra heat of adding more lighting wattage go ahead and try it if you want. 30" is really short height wise though and you need some space above the COBs for airflow over the heatsinks/fans if you use them too, and also need a gap between the COBs and the canopy to allow the light to spread out to the sides and keep the tops from yellowing in the areas directly under the COBs. I have noticed my plants are incredibly more "hungry" under the COBs.

edit: just checked out your sig thread, I thought the HML was probably a company but I see it was home made. You could run the 4 3070s up top with your HML bars one on each side still hung horizontally but with the emitters angled towards the center so the heatsink at maybe a 45 degree angle. I dont know if your HML setup is dimmable but having the COBs dimmable would be good to adjust brightness and heat. If you do SCROGs (saw your mod scrogs in that thread) you should be able to keep the plant canopy lower more easily.

I'm pushing more watts because I like sativas, and most I tried don't ripen/develop with my current HML setup, 210W.

Why that angle?

 

[Bueno Time]

Hi, Bueno, thanks for your kind reply



I'm getting Z2, couldn't find anything better... thought on running them at 1050 or less.



I'm pushing more watts because I like sativas, and most I tried don't ripen/develop with my current HML setup, 210W.

Why that angle?

Not bad, the Z2 bin are ~39.4% efficient at 1050mA. I just suggested that method so if you dont have room up top to hang the lights (your HMLs) over the canopy when you add the CXA modules you could put your HML bars off to the top sides and angle them inward so the light still gets to your tops of your plants. Not 100% neccessary or a precise angle or anything just a suggestion, though Im sure you will figure out the best way to do it when you get everything setup.

Good luck with your build, sounds like a nice setup.

 

[cooljeff]

Theres two of those 24" long heatsink bars you see in the pic one in the front that you can see and one in the back, each has 9x LEDs 2 450nm, 2 630nm, 5 660nm.

how big of heatsink would u need to run everything in one fixture?

 

[Bueno Time]

how big of heatsink would u need to run everything in one fixture?

Pretty big but not too big. But really its hard to say depends on ambient temps, drive current (also wattage goes hand in hand) and efficiency of your LEDs will make a big difference, and whether or not you want to use a fan (active) or just bare heatsink (passive) to cool. You need a much larger heatsink for passive cooling and also wouldnt want the fins spaced super close together for passive cooling since there is no fan to force air through having a little larger space like 1/4" wide or so is better for passive cooling as is a heavier profile (more mass per inch of linear heatsink length).

You get better spread while being able to keep the light closer to canopy with multiple modules or heatsinks spreading the emitters out but you can for sure do it all on one heatsink too if you wanted. Im not the best at figuring out heatsink sizes theres a guy on RIU, SupraSPL that has some nifty calculations for cm3 of heatsink per watt of LED for passive and active cooling. If Im not sure I usually just ask him lol.

 

[Bueno Time]

Made another sketchup of a possible new setup for the tent.

My old idea was 24 Vero 10s 4 heatsink bars with 6 V10s on each bar. My new idea is 35 Vero 10 4000K in series/parallel on a HLG-185H-C1400 running ~200mA each @ 37% efficiency. My current setup is ~42% efficient so I would be losing a significant amount of efficiency but gaining a massively more even spread of intensity and light over the canopy. FYI if your wondering, 42%-37% is 5% loss in efficiency, doesn't seem like much but in reality 42/37=1.135 so that is a loss of 13.5% which is very substantial. I feel that the better coverage will make up for the loss and maybe even exceed the performance of my current setup. I should really be running 6 CXA3070s 1 per sq ft in this tent minimum and Im running only 3 emitters so the light spread isnt good on the sides.

Anyway heres the sketchup of the 35 Vero layout, looks nice. Heatsink bars would be able to be adjusted for spacing front to back by sliding on the bars they hang from in the tent.

 

[cooljeff]

Pretty big but not too big. But really its hard to say depends on ambient temps, drive current (also wattage goes hand in hand) and efficiency of your LEDs will make a big difference, and whether or not you want to use a fan (active) or just bare heatsink (passive) to cool. You need a much larger heatsink for passive cooling and also wouldnt want the fins spaced super close together for passive cooling since there is no fan to force air through having a little larger space like 1/4" wide or so is better for passive cooling as is a heavier profile (more mass per inch of linear heatsink length).

You get better spread while being able to keep the light closer to canopy with multiple modules or heatsinks spreading the emitters out but you can for sure do it all on one heatsink too if you wanted. Im not the best at figuring out heatsink sizes theres a guy on RIU, SupraSPL that has some nifty calculations for cm3 of heatsink per watt of LED for passive and active cooling. If Im not sure I usually just ask him lol.

i want to go with 5cobs, 4, 3k and a 5k in the middle with 2 fans and one driver.. I was thinking maybe 1sqf on the size of the light using total of 250w.

 

[Unclecrash]

Hope you do a detailed build on it, if you decide to build it. What wattage or, or what would it be equivalent to?

 

[Bueno Time]

Hope you do a detailed build on it, if you decide to build it. What wattage or, or what would it be equivalent to?

If I assume for simplicity each Vero 10 runs at 26vF @ ~200mA current and there is 35 Vero 10s total then it would be ~182w LED dissipation at ~120lm/w which would be 21,840 lumens total. (edit: to compare my 3 CXA3070 AB bin @ 1450mA ~22070 lumens)

I read the HLG-185H-C1400 will actually run a little higher current than the rated 1400mA when the vF is not maxed out on the driver in order to give closer to the rated 200w of the driver (which is cool). It will probably actually run about 1500mA so each Vero 10 would get 214mA x 35 Vero 10s @ 26vF each would be 194.7w. So between 180 and 195w probably close to 195w dissipation and the HLG-185H is VERY efficient 93-94% at full vF load and still 92-93% at 60% load or more so with driver loss about 210w draw at the wall. Plus a few watts for some PC fans and adapter to I will probably run blowing down the length of the bars to help keep them cooler. If I build it I will get it on the Kill-A-Watt to see for sure.

 

[Bueno Time]

Day 27.5 12/12 (more pics in link in sig)

 

[Bueno Time]

Slapped together the string of two V10 4000K and cheap driver I bought to test them. Positioned the emitters apart 4" and 4.375" on center, the distances that would be between them if I choose to run the 35 V10 setup. Good output and coverage in the middle of the emitters even close, ~3-4" away from the COB faces (though they are running ~280-300mA vs 200mA I would be running each at in the 35 V10 setup), seems like it would spread the light out real nice.

I like the color temp just by eye, looks like its got a healthy amount more blue than the CXA 3000K and looks almost pure white with a hint of yellow but mostly neutral white I would say. Going to see later tonight when the flowering tent lights kick on for the night I can plug in the V10s and see how they look side by side to the 3000K CXA so I can tell the difference better.

For now I snapped a couple pics though, nothing special. I will try to see if I can capture the CXA 3000K vs Vero 4000K spectrums tonight in some pics but it might be hard to tell since the Vero 4000K didnt look the same in most the pictures I took as it does in person but the second pic shows pretty good how white the light is.

 

[Bueno Time]

Also almost forgot to mention that I said the 35 Vero 10s would be ~21,840 lumens and that was the minimum possible according to Vero specs on the PDFs but would likely be closer to a little over 23,000 lumens.

 

[Bueno Time]

Well I tested a little bit the performance of the drivers I got, paid $5.54 for two of them though the auction said $2.92 each. Drivers say DC 39-63V 300mA +/-5%. Again this was 2 Vero 10 4000K in series on one of the cheap drivers.

Here's the link for the drivers that will run 2 Vero 10s in series per driver.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390696103437?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Kill-A-Watt #s
Initially PF .63 18.2w .23A 28.7VA
After ~1hr on PF .61 16.5w .21A 26.6VA

Multimeter Readings
COB 1 25.4 vF
COB 2 25.5 vF
Driver Current .3A (300mA) <--put out full rated current! haha

 

[Bueno Time]

Got a couple pics taken of the CXA 3000K vs Vero 4000K, wow a big difference, the Vero 4000K is pure white. Makes a good light for taking pics of the girls.
I got two quick pictures of the Vero 4000K light shining into the tent on the girls before I failed to continue holding both heatsinks with one hand, aiming them between the tent and heatsink bar at the girls while taking pictures with my other hand. I dropped a heatsink and it bungi jumped (minus the bungi) into the tent and as the heatsink took up all the slack of the wires connected to it a sudden jerk on the wiring was felt followed by darkness. One of the wires ripped the solder pad clean off the Vero 10 lol. $5 mistake there, not too bad and glad I got all the info I needed out of the test setup in its short lifespan lol. Anyway on to the pics.

CXA3000K 80CRI

Vero 4000K 80CRI

The carnage, broken COB and a broken off fan leaf/petiole stem/bud combo

But wow I was surprised to see that much of a difference it was very clear the difference in spectrums, Vero 4000K = neutral white, CXA 3000K = warm white, IMO.

 

[mauricem00]

has anyone tried these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hydr...ics-seeding-growing-flowering/1598449383.html these seem to provide a more efficient spectrum than white leds.I picked up some of the 3 watt versions of these diode and thermal test showed the following results: VF 3.2 volts IF 600ma 1.3 watts heat dissipation 0.62 watt radiant light for a luminous efficiency of 32.29% this seems very close to the vero or cree diodes but with only 5% green light instead of the 35-48% green (warm white/cool white) provided by the white diodes. similar efficiency but better spectrum.I do not work for this company nor am I a beta tester. I do not receive any free or discounted products from them. I just enjoy experimenting and trying to find better ways to grow MMJ

 

[Bueno Time]

has anyone tried these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hydr...ics-seeding-growing-flowering/1598449383.html these seem to provide a more efficient spectrum than white leds.I picked up some of the 3 watt versions of these diode and thermal test showed the following results: VF 3.2 volts IF 600ma 1.3 watts heat dissipation 0.62 watt radiant light for a luminous efficiency of 32.29% this seems very close to the vero or cree diodes but with only 5% green light instead of the 35-48% green (warm white/cool white) provided by the white diodes. similar efficiency but better spectrum.I do not work for this company nor am I a beta tester. I do not receive any free or discounted products from them. I just enjoy experimenting and trying to find better ways to grow MMJ

No I havent tried them but Im not really big on them due to poor build quality vs Cree or Bridgelux COBs and poor efficiency. If you wanted to build a lighting system that is basically red and blue only with monochrome LEDs you could use top bin LED chips and build a massively efficient lighting system (50-60% efficiency maybe even more depending on # of LEDs used and drive current).

 

[Bueno Time]

Did some testing of Vero 10s, one of each 2700K 3000K 3500K 4000K 5000K, all 80CRI versions.

The test rig.

3000K Vs 2700K

5000K Vs 2700K