Broad Mites?

[Some old dude]

Did my best

Did my best

^^^not trying to stir the pot or anything but is it possible that the reason you have been unable to eradicate this pest is because you have been treating habitually with one miticide rather than adopting a proven protocol which includes rotating chemicals? just a passing thought from a guy who was working as a regular old nurseryman since before prop 215.

Guess my point was completely missed . Yes you can kill broad mites. And you will keep killing them. If your plants don't have toxic risidual levels of miticides they will get infested again really quick.How's that...hehe, I just prefer heat and predators. Heat will sanitize the entire grow room. Its just does not have residual affects so it needs to be done every week or ten days.It's just a choice there is nothing wrong with using toxic's it's just I won't use anyone's meds but my own.(Should of left my pictures up of my current grow)...LOL Have never heard of anyone eradicating broad mites. They may not infest plants with a high toxic residual in the plant. Have not read a lot about people who say they eliminated the broads and did not keep treating with the toxics.Cause if you stop treating it's like poltergeist..."There..... back"......no pot stirring just good honest conversation. All the very best...!!!

 

[EclipseFour20]

SOD...the notion of rotating "modes of action" (which some call chemicals/poisons) is an established strategy to combat any pest or plant disease; nothing sinister or bad about this. Now as to high levels of poisons, IMHO--levels in excess of 1ml/gal of Avid is overdose--but are not toxic.

Your suggestion of heat is one option (short-term) and the below cut and paste is from the last paragraph of the 2nd article I linked above.

"Hot water treatments are another potential management option that has been suggested as a means of dealing with broad mites. In fact, it has been shown that exposure times between 15 and 45 minutes at temperatures between 105ºF (40ºC) and 110ºF (43ºC) are effective in killing broad mites. Plants have to be immersed in the hot water long enough to allow penetration into areas such as the meristematic tissues where the mites are located, and at the same time not damage plants. Producers may consider implementing this procedure; however, this is a short-term solution with no residual affect as plants placed back among crops can be infested."

What would be a good "long-term" strategy? As you know, repeated heat treatments are pain in the ass as they are both labor and time intensive--and can be difficult to develop a system to keep the water hot while not fucking up the plant's growing medium. If I had few plants...maybe heat treatments is the way to go--but what about those of us in "production mode"?

"Toxic residual levels"--how about a little reality check. Take my recipe and calculate the potential "toxic residual amounts" a cured bud might have...you would be surprised of the number of zeros "right of the decimal point" there is in the answer...when does it become insignificant?

IMHO, probably more danger in touching a dollar bill with all its germs and what not...than smoking one of my cured buds--that was treated 90 days earlier while in veg.

Not saying my recipe is the holy grail or THE ONLY WAY (soo many paths to the same destination), just volunteering a unique solution that uses less poison and accomplishes the goal: ANNIHILATION!

Cheers!

 

[bubbler720]

PO broad mites

PO broad mites

Sirroco (AVID + Flroamite)
Forbid
Conserve SC
Sulfur
Triple Action Neem
Pylon
Lambda-cyhalothrin

No Broad Mite can survive this...not even the SUPER BM's from P.O.

Those P.O. BM's are the worst ones...way harder to kill off

Storm: I've been reading this thread from the beginning, haven't come across definition of PO broad mites... you mean progressive options? I'm 99% sure this nightmare began when I accepted two new strains from a trusted source moby dick and big mac. they looked fine initially and even ran some of them threw a HVST with good results. I'm realizing they had probably been treated but not eradicated, were dormant, and after a month or two under cool T5's with other mommas, came back to life and came very close to eradicating my entire garden - which still hangs in the balance.

From your original recipe looks like I'll add the sulfur (Safer Garden Fungicide 30ml/gal w/indicate 5). I'll look into pylon. the Lambda-cyhalothrin looks familiar from ridding root aphids yrs ago

BTW reading the thread gets brutal some real idiots here --- you and Grow Tech and other productive members always having to repeat yourselves. anyway, some of your posts are fucking hilarious, from Richard Simmons to Star Wars -- thanks for keeping it interesting in the otherwise gloomy fucking battle

 

[SooperSmurph]

IMO the best long term strategy would be regular high dosage (60ml / gallon Azamax) azadirachtin combined with occasional heavy chems for mothers, which are usually the biggest problems when trying to clean out a grow.

I'll look into pylon. the Lambda-cyhalothrin looks familiar from ridding root aphids yrs ago

Get Phantom, not Pylon, exact same product and formula according to the MSDS, $60 for 21oz instead of $400 for 16oz.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Bubbler don't mix Sulfur with anything.....use it as is with Good Water...no Indicate 5..

Don't use it if you've recently used Triple Action Neem...wait like 10 days...or you'll get some intense burning

Im about to try out Bifen XTS and essentria IC3... One of them is listed for Broad Mites and the other is an insane Botanical Oil mix...it also has one of the main ingredients in Bio-Mite for a fraction of the cost...

We'll soon have 10 MOA's being used on these Bastards... The Progressive Option BM's are immune to Forbid...its like the only Chemical those idiots use....P.O created Super BM's

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/cadusafos-cyromazine/chlorfenapyr/chlorfenapyr.pdf

Pylon miticide and Phantom termiticide both contain the active ingredient, chlorfenapyr, and are both made by BASF. these two are exactly the same formulation just with different labels.

"The formulated end product was previously reviewed under the name Pylon Miticide-Insecticide ..."

Pylon sells for $465 for 16 oz.
Phantom sells for $60 for 21 oz.

Just a reminder incase anyone missed it

 

[Tiami]

I had huge problems with mites in my vinyard. wettable sulphur the one mixed with water in 0,5% concentration had little or no influence on mites from my experience. the first time I aplied elemental sulphur, the one that you ventilate into plants it's a 99% S, problems with mites stopped. they hate it.

the good thing is that S is a fungicide against powdery mildews, just be carefull with aplying S before or after aplying some oils. I don't think any mite can survive a combo of neem and elemental S. good luck all.

 

[Storm Shadow]

I use Bonide Citrus, Fruit and Nut Orchard Spray Concentrate its 10% Sulfur and I use 5oz (150ml) per Gallon... that's from the label itself ...if the Mites are Heavy. I had some plants that did not like it as much as others....you can pick it up at Lowes or Home Depot

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/msds/Citrus Fruit Nut Con Label.pdf

 

[eric2028]

storm- have you ever heard of m-pede? its a commercial insecticidal soap with 45% of it s active ingredient potassium salts. sounds promising. my phantom is on its way. wonder how close to harvest its recommended for.

 

[Some old dude]

Up to speed

Up to speed

SOD...the notion of rotating "modes of action" (which some call chemicals/poisons) is an established strategy to combat any pest or plant disease; nothing sinister or bad about this. Now as to high levels of poisons, IMHO--levels in excess of 1ml/gal of Avid is overdose--but are not toxic.

Your suggestion of heat is one option (short-term) and the below cut and paste is from the last paragraph of the 2nd article I linked above.

"Hot water treatments are another potential management option that has been suggested as a means of dealing with broad mites. In fact, it has been shown that exposure times between 15 and 45 minutes at temperatures between 105ºF (40ºC) and 110ºF (43ºC) are effective in killing broad mites. Plants have to be immersed in the hot water long enough to allow penetration into areas such as the meristematic tissues where the mites are located, and at the same time not damage plants. Producers may consider implementing this procedure; however, this is a short-term solution with no residual affect as plants placed back among crops can be infested."

What would be a good "long-term" strategy? As you know, repeated heat treatments are pain in the ass as they are both labor and time intensive--and can be difficult to develop a system to keep the water hot while not fucking up the plant's growing medium. If I had few plants...maybe heat treatments is the way to go--but what about those of us in "production mode"?

"Toxic residual levels"--how about a little reality check. Take my recipe and calculate the potential "toxic residual amounts" a cured bud might have...you would be surprised of the number of zeros "right of the decimal point" there is in the answer...when does it become insignificant?

IMHO, probably more danger in touching a dollar bill with all its germs and what not...than smoking one of my cured buds--that was treated 90 days earlier while in veg.

Not saying my recipe is the holy grail or THE ONLY WAY (soo many paths to the same destination), just volunteering a unique solution that uses less poison and accomplishes the goal: ANNIHILATION!

Cheers!

Lets get up to speed. It was discovered on these boards (by a very clever individual) if you can kill the broads and there eggs completely with "Hot water"...why not just use heat from the lamps already in your room with added heat sources (I use 2000 watts of extra heat from Halogen lamps with the glass covers removed). So what could be easier than turning off your AC, Air vents for an hour or so...? (I need to emphasize seriously that there needs to be (0) I mean "ZERO air movement" in room during this time and the main lights should be raised to at least a few feet or more from top of canopy)... no mess, complete sterilization of entire room...! Then deploying swirskii predator mites on patrol (they move faster than the broads and attack the eggs if they even get the chance to lay any) No mess, no oil, no toxins, no mites, no eggs. I have actually read that some people actually spray there Toxins all over there rooms floors walls everywhere. The reason plants treated with chems don't get re infested is not because the mites are not present just outside or even inside .It's because the plant has residual toxins in/on the plants. As far a half life and the chems used are concerned when the residual wears off the broads will be back unless the mothers are maintained with residual levels that are high enough to do the job. I have been through this scenario of keeping mothers broad mite free with chems over the years. I have always used Judo and it worked and have not noticed any resistance of the toxin on the mites . If you believe Bayer and there claims about "Half life" residual on Vegetable crops Not smokable tobacco (and I could not find any info on using avid/forbid on tobacco) then you should also trust Bayer when they say Judo/forbid is not possible for the mites to form resistance to the toxin because of the MOA . I do not hold judgment for people using these chem (I did for many years) I just found a way I can enjoy this again and use my own product and not worry when others use it. It's just a very personal choice I made. And I believe it's the way of future growing. I'm not a health freak although in my older age I am realizing what the affects of man made toxins and pollution have done.All the very best everyone.

 

[bubbler720]

New Genetics recommendation

New Genetics recommendation

Once they dud...unless they are genetics you cannot live without....you should toss em and start over...

Starting to face some hard realities:
1. 1 month past hardcore BM chem treatment (to moms/veg only)
2. veg ladies made big comeback, but now stunting/duding in wk 5 flwr despite continued aspirin/heat treatment (and scoping - yes eggs, very few dead adults, no crawlers)
3. new 'moms' (recovered infected veg plants) not vigorous
4. clones taken from veg ladies under 1k - not vigorous - look sad, probably won't make it
5. beginning to witness, understand & accept about biting 'toxicity' of BM's and how that can ruin the genetics. I'm facing 60% probability that all my genetics are ruined. I have to hedge against that % increasing. so...

I don't trust anyone for new genetics! Where should I go? I'm in CO area. Looking for 6-8 strains, going for $$stack$$, combo sativa and indicas. more interested in female cuttings than sexing. have enjoyed working with durban poison, LA conf., triple D in the past.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Starting to face some hard realities:
1. 1 month past hardcore BM chem treatment (to moms/veg only)
2. veg ladies made big comeback, but now stunting/duding in wk 5 flwr despite continued aspirin/heat treatment (and scoping - yes eggs, very few dead adults, no crawlers)
3. new 'moms' (recovered infected veg plants) not vigorous
4. clones taken from veg ladies under 1k - not vigorous - look sad, probably won't make it
5. beginning to witness, understand & accept about biting 'toxicity' of BM's and how that can ruin the genetics. I'm facing 60% probability that all my genetics are ruined. I have to hedge against that % increasing. so...

I don't trust anyone for new genetics! Where should I go? I'm in CO area. Looking for 6-8 strains, going for $$stack$$, combo sativa and indicas. more interested in female cuttings than sexing. have enjoyed working with durban poison, LA conf., triple D in the past.

Sounds like they never left. Continue treatments, regularly, that's one of the keys to beating these monsters, like any pests, never let up, spray spray spray, heat heat heat, dip dip dip, whatever your chosen method of fighting them, do it as often as you can, don't let healthy growth fool you, your enemies are in hiding, continue your assault until their species is utterly ruined, giving them even a week without a treatment is a recipe for a relapse.

 

[EclipseFour20]

SOD...I think the date of the article I cut and pasted--precede the "heat discovery" you refer to; Broad Mites are not a new phenomenon. I understand where you are coming from--but the major deficiency of using the heat method--is plants placed back in circulation are easily "reinfected". That I think is the primary difference of the two methods--one is "short-term" (single mode of action: heat) and the other is long-term (incorporating different modes of action).

BTW...good source of half-life information is NEVER the manufacturer, but government agencies.

My favs are California's Dept of Pesticide Regulations "Environmental Fate Reviews" http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/envfate.htm and,
FAO http://www.fao.org/agriculture/crops/core-themes/theme/pests/lpe/en/
Cornell Univ. http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/index.html

BTW..."Plants do not absorb abamectin from the soil (6). Abamectin is subject to rapid degradation when present as a thin film, as on treated leaf surfaces. Under laboratory conditions and in the presence of light, its half-life as a thin film was 4 to 6 hours (6).

That said, the levels suggested here are no where near "toxic"...just saying (do the math), especially with 4-6 hour half-life....at rates of 0.75 ml per gallon. I can easily spray 32 plants with 32 oz of spray--which is about 1 oz of spray per plant...so use those variables in calculating potential toxicity.

Cheers!

On Edit. The bible on "mode of action" is published by IRAC, a valuable reference. http://www.irac-online.org/content/uploads/MoA-classification.pdf

 

[Some old dude]

I can dig it

I can dig it

SOD...I think the date of the article I cut and pasted--preceded the "heat discovery" on this board. I understand where you are coming from--but the major deficiency of using the heat method--is plants placed back in circulation are easily "reinfected". That I think is the primary difference of the two methods--one is "short-term" (single mode of action: heat) and the other is long-term (incorporating different modes of action).

BTW...good source of half-life information is NEVER the manufacturer, but government agencies.

My favs are California's Dept of Pesticide Regulations "Environmental Fate Reviews" http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/envfate.htm and,
FAO http://www.fao.org/agriculture/crops/core-themes/theme/pests/lpe/en/
Cornell Univ. http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/index.html

BTW..."Plants do not absorb abamectin from the soil (6). Abamectin is subject to rapid degradation when present as a thin film, as on treated leaf surfaces. Under laboratory conditions and in the presence of light, its half-life as a thin film was 4 to 6 hours (6).

That said, the levels suggested here are no where near "toxic"...just saying (do the math), especially with 4-6 hour half-life.

I can dig it, I don't trust the chem company's or the bribed government lobbyist's . I have seen very different reports about trans laminar residual activity. It's all good. It is reported that there are higher levels on fruit and the regulatory agencies look the other way on those as well. The way I look at it is just be informed as much as possible. The reading I have done scares me .But ,I will be the first to admit i was looking for the worst. I believe a person should do what works for them. Sounds like you have a good thing going and it's working for you. I wish you much success.

 

[Bmerlot]

Im def going to purchase the Phantom spray and use it to treat the rooms after everything is cleared out. Product description says it has a long residual.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/p...=cross_sell&utm_source=cart&utm_medium=mybuys

 

[someone else]

Hello again guys, I really need some advice on something, I think I'm on the right track battling this scourge still not sure if it's cyclamen or broad, not even sure if theres a difference. Ive applied avid twice and one forbid all 3 days apart. I was going to do another forbid but there was some burning so waited an extra two days and tomorrow I'm gonna do some triple action neem. My plants look to be in full blown recovery mode, they even smell again when I brush against them. I've been watering with aspirin, initially about 75% the recommended rate but I'm now bumping it up to 325 per gal. My problem is I still see eggs, is this a problem or will they die when they hatch and bite the plant? I'm willing to cut clones and kill all the plants but I'd prefer not to because my harvests have been weak for awhile due to the bugs and I need to pull a monster. I had to flip today because my plants are getting way to big, I vegged longer so I could spray all this stuff. I need the $$ but I'm a long term kind of guy, what should I do?

 

[EclipseFour20]

If "miticides" is your approach, perhaps a little cut and paste from the 2nd article from my buddy Ray will lead us to some established/proven solutions:

"Broad mites require a food source for survival, so implementing sanitation practices, such as cleaning greenhouses prior to introducing new plants and disinfecting benches will help to alleviate problems with broad mites. Broad mite populations are difficult to suppress with contact miticides because they are located in the meristematic tissues. Miticides with translaminar properties may be more effective and typically have broad mites on the label. Translaminar means that, after a foliar application, the material penetrates leaf tissues and new terminal growth; forming a reservoir of active ingredient within the leaf or new growing points. As a result, these miticides are more likely to come in contact with broad mites feeding in the meristematic tissues. Those miticides labeled for suppression of broad mite populations are presented in Table 1. Preventative applications may be required; particularly on highly susceptible crops because once damage is evident it is too late to initiate practices that may have suppressed populations of broad mites. As such, it is recommended to rouge out and immediately dispose of plants exhibiting symptoms, and those adjacent to symptomatic plants in order to prevent the spread of broad mite populations.

Table 1. Miticides active ingredient and (trade name) that have broad mite on the label, and activity (translaminar and/or contact).
Abamectin (Avid) Translaminar and contact
Chlorfenapyr (Pylon) Translaminar and contact
Fenpyroximate (Akari) Contact
Pyridaben (Sanmite) Contact
Spiromesifen (Judo) Translaminar and contact

Biological control of broad mite is another management option and involves the use of commercially-available predatory mites. The predatory mite, Neoseiulus barkeri has been successfully used in suppressing broad mite populations, and the predatory mites, Neoseiulus (=Amblyseius) cucumeris and N. californicus may be utilized against broad mite populations on certain greenhouse-grown crops including vegetables. It is important to apply predatory mites early in the crop production cycle before broad mites become established."

According to Floramite's label, it is not effective against Broad Mites--so I am wondering, why is this particular miticide being used to combat Broad Mites? Is this "stoner logic" or an undocumented "secret silver bullet"?

Onward through the fog...

 

[bubbler720]

If "miticides" is your approach, perhaps a little cut and paste from the 2nd article from my buddy Ray will lead us to some established/proven solutions:

......Preventative applications may be required; particularly on highly susceptible crops because once damage is evident it is too late to initiate practices that may have suppressed populations of broad mites. As such, it is recommended to rouge (?) out and immediately dispose of plants exhibiting symptoms, and those adjacent to symptomatic plants in order to prevent the spread of broad mite populations."?

Interesting... Ray says dump infected plants. BMs caught me off-guard, diagnosis came too late, I had no preventative apps. Now I'm nuking the hell out of them with rollercoaster results, primarily now duds in clone/veg/flwr. still on the fight = heavy translaminar artillery every 3 days. not ready to dump infected as Ray recommends but ready to hedge against total loss

I am ready for new genetics

Well documented FLoramite not effective on BMs.

 

[Bmerlot]

I was just reading the MSDS label for Pylon. AKA Phantom. It recommends not using surfactants mixed in.

"NOT RECOMMENDED: Additions of crop oils, surfactants, and fertilizers or other tank additives have been shown to increase the likelihood of foliage injury and are not recommended with this product."

Has anybody Used Pylon with Indicate 5 and had any burns?

 

[OrganicOzarks]

My flower room is 10 days in, and they look awesome. They are growing a bit better than normal. However I am applying compost tea soil drenched, and foliar sprayed twice per week. I am mixing in OGbiowar pack in my foliar spray. I will continue to do twice weekly treatments until August just to make sure they are gone. I would wager that most people that are having problems after the fact are still having the BM on their plants for some time, and getting more, and more toxin in their plants. I can see the effects on a few plants in veg. They were younger plants started form seed. Other than those my garden is growing like crazy.