Broad mites: ID and Organic Antidotes that work!

[RetroGrow]

just a few minutes of searching and i found this article (from NC state university cooperative extension) about heat treating for broad mites:
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/O&T/flowers/note28/note28.html
quote: "Cyclamen mites and broad mites are very sensitive to heat. They are more difficult to control in winter than in summer due to lower greenhouse temperatures. Lowering infested plants into water held at 111degrees F for 15 minutes will destroy these mites without damaging the plants."
here are 2 other links to articles that echo this:
http://hort.uwex.edu/articles/cyclamen-and-broad-mites/ -university of wisconsin extension
http://extension.entm.purdue.edu/la...ment/Biology_and_Mgmt_of_Greenhouse_Pests.pdf - purdue university

granted it may be difficult to completely submerge larger plants.... but for treating incoming clones a hot water bath may work, im sure these universities in states with no medical programs or cannabis research haven't tried the hot water bath to kill broad / cyclamen mites on young cannabis plants....
so...
it's up to us to try it and share results, right here, in this thread....

Some of us already know that the heat treatment works...it isn't open to debate...it works without question. It's all been spelled out previously in the broad mite thread. I have done it successfully, and many others have done it afterwards. I have numerous messages of thanks form many people. Was also sent a bunch of seeds in gratitude.
These tag-team trolls....50yard line(he's actually Backyard Farmer)/Milky Joe are just trolling....as both of them have done before. It's apparent that they conspired to troll this thread as soon as the heat treatment was brought up. They are the "alpha-helpers" in their own minds. They don't want anyone else posting their ideas....they think they know it all, but, amazingly, they don't. It's been pointed out previously that heat treatments are the treatment of choice for commercial greenhouse growers, and has been for many decades. To come into a thread and say "that won't work" about a process that's already proven to work is just ignorant. Anyone with a brain can see who the trolls are here.
When it comes to broad mites indoor, it's heat treatments for the win!

 

[RetroGrow]

I'm thinking the process would go something like: identify living pest(s) w magnification tool, try hot water treatment, check again under magnification and confirm pests are dead.

Forget hot water treatment...tried it first before doing hot air...it ruins Cannabis plants.
Hot air is the way to go, as described.
Impossible to dunk 5 foot plants anyway, but heat treatment with hot air is simple, the two trolls being the exception.

 

[RetroGrow]

Gotta admit I don't know which mite it was...but one of those assholes.

That's rich. You don't even know what it was, yet you find time to criticize others who actually identified the pests before treating, and treated successfully the first time. So, what you "treated" wasn't even broad mites, but the broad mite heat treatment doesn't work.
Too funny!
That's real arrogance on your part. I knew you were talking shit, but now you have confirmed it for all to see.
Enjoy your tag team trolling!

 

[redlaser]

I'm thinking the process would go something like: identify living pest(s) w magnification tool, try hot water treatment, check again under magnification and confirm pests are dead.

I'd advise getting the 110 degree water tech down before the need arises to use it. Have to maintain that temp, 112 is too much to survive in water.
It only seems practical on unrooted cuttings because you have temp changes of a degree with every inch of water depth.

Wouldn't expect to get it right the first time, especially if doing it on the stove in approximately 2-3 gallons of water. A more precise way of controlling the temp would be ideal, but it can be done on the stove.

 

[50YardLine]

just a few minutes of searching and i found this article (from NC state university cooperative extension) about heat treating for broad mites:
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/O&T/flowers/note28/note28.html
quote: "Cyclamen mites and broad mites are very sensitive to heat. They are more difficult to control in winter than in summer due to lower greenhouse temperatures. Lowering infested plants into water held at 111degrees F for 15 minutes will destroy these mites without damaging the plants."
here are 2 other links to articles that echo this:
http://hort.uwex.edu/articles/cyclamen-and-broad-mites/ -university of wisconsin extension
http://extension.entm.purdue.edu/la...ment/Biology_and_Mgmt_of_Greenhouse_Pests.pdf - purdue university

granted it may be difficult to completely submerge larger plants.... but for treating incoming clones a hot water bath may work, im sure these universities in states with no medical programs or cannabis research haven't tried the hot water bath to kill broad / cyclamen mites on young cannabis plants....
so...
it's up to us to try it and share results, right here, in this thread....

I already did everything you suggest, yet everybody ignored me.

I keep saying why the heat treatments wont work, but you just keep saying I can't follow the instructions......Really?

Just answer one of these next questions smart guy, forget the leaf temps, how do you get the soil temps up high enough to kill all the russets/broad mites in your soil? Why is there a product called Met52 EC Bio-Insecticide made for soil application? Why does every professional IPM program include organic sprays, beneficial bugs, and chemical miticides and not use heat treatments?

Here are some great IPM articles from the top universities. Do any of them use heat treatments? If so, is that the only form of prevention? Here is a key statement from OKSTATE

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2336/F-6710web.pd

http://www.ipmcenters.org/pmsp/pdf/NortheasternUSGreenhousePMSP.pdf

https://www.uvm.edu/~entlab/Greenhouse IPM/Scouting.html

http://ipm.uconn.edu/pa_greenhouse/

"Control Options
The goal of IPM is long-term suppression of pest populations
below the point at which they cause economic damage.
Successful management of pests requires the use of multiple
tactics, starting with healthy plants and a clean greenhouse,
covered in the previous sections. Reliance on a single method,
such as a chemical pesticide, is doomed to failure, if for no
other reason than the development of pesticide resistance.
The remaining information that follows will outline several of
the best pest control options. "



So to rap things up, your advise is terrible. Not a single university, or IPM program that I have seen says heat treatments are an effective form of eradicating russets/broad mites. Every IPM program talks about managing your bugs, not some miracle heat treatment that will eliminate these bugs. Your just not cut out to me a great grower, sorry. You need much more experience, and don't cut down others along the way Retro.

I got my greenhouse up to 145f every three days for two months and the heat treatment did not work!!!

Stop calling me a troll for posting up information that didn't work for me. How can one be a troll when sharing information about what works for them?

Does anybody in this thread actually have mites? Try a heat treatment and report back. I did, and it doesn't work, period. The reason it doesn't work for me is the volume of soil can't be heated, and cover crops left too many places for the mites to hide. Heat treatments will never work in such an environment, period.

 

[50YardLine]

Here are some field tests I did. Real data. Here is what I recommend. Notice #3 on the list. I would never post up what chemicals one should use, because people will harm themselves or others. If you go that route, make sure you wear proper PPE's, respect reentry times, rotate different classified miticides, and test your flowers in the end.

I have been experimenting with organic controls on the plants that are left standing in my greenhouses. I must say, I have been able to completely reverse any damage on my hash nugs. Most of my hash nugs had gotten a burnt look to them. I left them for another month, and started spraying OG Bio War at 50% over the recommended full strength. Almost all my hash nugs recovered 100%, and now are full, filled out, with no damage. You can still see where the nug was a little burnt on the bottom, but then a nice full nug is developed on top.

On another plant I have been spraying Azamax. I don't plan on using this plants nugs at all now, but I wanted to see how effective Azamax was on a fully infected plant. The azamax didn't do crap. It knocked them back, but the nugs were burnt and the plant is slowly dying because it's succumbing the the mites.

On a third plant, I am using just Regalia. This is very interesting. The plant seems to remain infected, however the Regalia is keeping the plant healthy. I am not seeing a total reversal in nug growth, but I am seeing a plant develop an immune system that is fighting off the bugs. The plant remains healthy.

On a forth plant, Regalia and Og bio war. This is what I used for the last month of the season. Now that the 12'+ tall plants are down to about 6 foot bushes, this seems to knock out the bugs. The plant that has this treatment looks like it never had broad mites. The trick here is the miticides are contact effective. They are not systemic, so you must spray where the bugs are. It also seems much more effective now that the humidity has stayed higher.

So this year while battling these buggers, I found a couple things helpful.

#1 - Organics will never kill every mite.
#2 - Heat treatments will never kill every mite
#3 - Chemical fertilizers are needed to eradicate an infestation
#4 - Azamax, neem don't work very well at all
#5 - Og Bio war and Reglia helps keep the mites at bay
#6 - an atomizer is a great tool to have, for contact sprays
#7 - Most sprays are more effective at night, due to higher humidity
#8 - Before fighting, make sure all plants are cleaned up, cover crops pulled, and any potential safe hiding spots for the mites are eliminated. If I didn't pull the bottom 6' of my plants, I would have harvested nothing.
#9 - Know your mites reproductive cycle. Attack on egg life cycles.
#10 - Keep a positive attitude. These bugs will push you to your mental limits.

/QUOTE]

 

[50YardLine]

Forget hot water treatment...tried it first before doing hot air...it ruins Cannabis plants.
Hot air is the way to go, as described.
Impossible to dunk 5 foot plants anyway, but heat treatment with hot air is simple, the two trolls being the exception.

This is true. Cannabis doesn't like hot water baths. Hot air is the only hope when using heat treatments.

 

[HL45]

Heat treatments are good for in between rounds, but I did not have 100% ERADICATION. The chems didn't work well for me either..

Swirskii mites for the win!

Just buy and apply every month. I have not seen bm's or russets since.

The problem with heat treatments and chems is you can't use them with out detrimental effects to your plants while you are in flower.. If you get swirskiis in your veg and again when you flip, your good to go.

 

[milkyjoe]

That makes 3 it did not work for in bigger soil mass...a pattern starts to develop. Has it worked for anyone in real soil?

 

[theJointedOne]

Growing from seed works

 

[50YardLine]

Heat treatments are good for in between rounds, but I did not have 100% ERADICATION. The chems didn't work well for me either..

Swirskii mites for the win!

Just buy and apply every month. I have not seen bm's or russets since.

The problem with heat treatments and chems is you can't use them with out detrimental effects to your plants while you are in flower.. If you get swirskiis in your veg and again when you flip, your good to go.

Great advice. Thanks for sharing. I might have mentioned swirskiis before, but I will reiterate it now. In almost all situations of BM/russets, you can only hope to control them. One of the best preventive, and active ways to do this is through Swirskii mites. Some retailers let you set up a schedule from them to deliver your predatory mites, so they arrive without even thinking twice. Set up a good time schedule at the start of the year, and buy accordingly.

Once again, great advice.

 

[xmobotx]

foliar/IPM will prevent BM

something like a Ca foliar applied such as hi-brix utilizes will strengthen young plants & knock them off mechanically/make the leaf surface less habitable

same w/ kelp-falfa foliar such as LOS/ROLS employs

soap based IPMs w/ botanicals as: doc broner's mint or lavendar, etc {sal's suds et al} are an aggressive measure along the same line

the point being; if you're IPM starts early {even as foliars} and is done weekly, you won't need to be looking at heat treatments or insecticides


let's keep the conversation on point

 

[milkyjoe]

True...but they sneak in with clones

 

[Terpz]

Growing from seed works

After popping many seeds, I've actually began to question this.
Recently had three separate seedlings from OGRaskal/Franchise/Exotic display broad mite damage as soon as the cotyledons opened. How can that be?

 

[ExoticsRus]

what about forbid 4F?

used under 1ml per gallon and proper protection ( same level as eagle 20e or avid)
Have many people used this against broad mites ? when searched online I only see old threads and no confirms for this.

 

[ExoticsRus]

^ safe or crazy:granted the instructions for forbid say :
" Do not use on vegetable gardens.
Do not use on plants intended for use as feed or forage.
Not for use in commercial greenhouses or nurseries, or on fruit or nut trees."


but doesn't avid and similar systematic based miticides have similar warning but if you only apply that during beg/end of veg at worst and never flower. Wouldn't that be 65-80 days be away. long enough?

 

[RetroGrow]

After popping many seeds, I've actually began to question this.
Recently had three separate seedlings from OGRaskal/Franchise/Exotic display broad mite damage as soon as the cotyledons opened. How can that be?

It happens because they are in your house/space, and attack seedlings immediately. Have seen the same thing repeatedly. Until you get them out of your environment, they will still be there to attack seedlings, and they do it immediately. They are NOT spread through seeds. By the way, if you treat seedlings with aspirin, they will come right back from the effects of the tarsonemidae toxins. I would like to know, however, how you determined "broad mite damage as soon as the cotyledons opened".

 

[HL45]

Exoticru......If I had a bad infection now in veg I would trash em and start over....but I won't get an infection because I constantly buy swirskiis.

I have forbid kontos avid conserve and a few more I can't remember, because they have been sealed in a bucket collecting dust since I started clean and kept ordering swirskiis. ..

 

[50YardLine]

foliar/IPM will prevent BM

something like a Ca foliar applied such as hi-brix utilizes will strengthen young plants & knock them off mechanically/make the leaf surface less habitable

same w/ kelp-falfa foliar such as LOS/ROLS employs

soap based IPMs w/ botanicals as: doc broner's mint or lavendar, etc {sal's suds et al} are an aggressive measure along the same line

the point being; if you're IPM starts early {even as foliars} and is done weekly, you won't need to be looking at heat treatments or insecticides


let's keep the conversation on point

When I got hit, my plant sap ph was 6.3 and my brix was 18. Broad and Russets don't play by those rules, imo. My plants were young, so I suspect they were not in full swing yet, but they were very healthy. I was doing weekly organic preventive sprays as always. Still got hit hard.

Then I sprayed with several organic treatments every three days, along with heat treatments every three days for an entire month before I decided to go nuclear for the first time in 15+ years.

Xmobotx - have you ever actually had these bugs? Or was that kind of speculation? Just because you are spraying organic preventive sprays, doesn't mean you have ever even battled broad mites/russets. The only reason I ask, is because I was the same way. I have always preached proper mineralization and organic preventives, however like I said, these bugs don't play by those rules.

 

[50YardLine]

I would love to add that those of you who think these bugs only come from clones are wrong. I know a grower who grows his own seeds he breeds for the last 30 years. He is battling russests as well. Reason? A bird flew in from another grow maybe?

Here is a crazy conspiracy theroy.......
States such as Florida and a couple others list under biological controls for road side weeds, russets, broad mites, and Fusarium. California wont list what they use as biological controls, but they do use biological controls. I am willing to bet money that Cali is now using russets/broad mites to control road side weeds.

If that is true, then we could be getting these bugs from anywhere, as they would now be indigenous to our regions.