breeding for terpenes

[vertigo0007]

5% is a hell of a jump for the same bud. I have done several cross ref tests with the local labs in my area and can definetely say there are huge jumps between labs, not so much between multiples of the same sent to the same lab repeatedly. I have been told by at least 2 disp in my area that have stated the reason they choose 1 specific lab is "because their numbers are 'better'". When asked what better means, answer "their numbers are 'higher and more accurate'". See how that works? My buddy was told by a disp owner in the adjacent town that hes in good with the lab that tests for him and the lab manipulates the tests for that disp. Like i said, until theres a professional regulated standard.... WHO THE FUCK KNOWS! one thing is certain, labs love to give out thc-a results as those numbers are higher.

 

[ItsTopShelf]

i met a kid that works in a medical testing lab.. and he said the exact same thing.. that the labs test.. send back results.. as a pdf.. and then they can go in a change shit..
ive seen it happen.. a couple of times.. a friend of mine. showed me .. how the same person had a clone only strain tested 2 times.. same sample... came back at 16.2thc. and 1.2 cbd and next thing u know.. the person had on there website.. that it came back at 22.2. thc.. and 2.4 cbd.. a complete LIE.. gota be careful with dispensarys ..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have not seen anyone use a Z-nose, does it detect all 80 Cannabinoids and all 130 terpenes? Does it give qualitative and quantitative results to what degree, 1%, .1&, .01%? Does it give acid and neutral Cannabinoids?
It gives a genetic footprint? Are you sure?
-SamS

What do you mean you dont get it? Maybe the test lab he uses doesnt test for terps but thats not the case with all. The z-nose is fully capable of testing cannabinoids and terps and gives you a genetic footprint. The local company who owns 1 takes it to third coast compassion in ypsi twice a month.

So many things effect what a plant produces. Pest and pathogen attacks aswell as training/bondage, environment etc all effect your profiles.

Even with all of this technology, multiple tests need to be done and an average taken. Each bud from every location on a plant will test different, 1 bud is in no way indicitive of the whole bag.

Until an entity that is the last word in callibration arises, who the fuck knows what youre getting.

 

[Ouzo180]

Well if the plant's Cannabinoid levels vary on different parts of the plant what about taking a whole plant (or all of its buds at least) and somehow reducing it to a mush (as gently as possible) and then test overall results. Just an idea...
I've been itching to get this Guava Chem cut tested for everything. I know its pretty strong in THC overall, rarely had a weak bud from it, but I am really curious about its terpenes and other cannabinoid levels.

 

[Nunsacred]

I wonder if hash extractions filter out most terpenes.
particularly ice water extractions.

I find most ice hash tastes quite similar, whatever plant it came from, with just a few exceptions. So it might be interesting to test your fave clone lines by sampling their hash and comparing it to their buds.

Obviously it's not accurate..... but I think it gives some idea of what terpenes do for your brain for each strain.

I found that a headachey haze hybrid can be tamed in its hash form .... Suggesting that terpenes are sometimes a bad thing.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Terpenes are not soluble in water, that's why the ice hash of different varieties taste the same.

Keep on growing

 

[Nunsacred]

^^ erm, but I thought that terpenes give the pungent aromatic flavours like pine etc.
I thought that terpenes give bud the unique flavours per pheno.....
These unique flavours are washed out in water, more or less.... so I assumed.

I may be wrong but I don't think oil has to be soluble in water in order for it to be carried away by water!

 

[vertigo0007]

I wonder if hash extractions filter out most terpenes.
particularly ice water extractions.

I find most ice hash tastes quite similar, whatever plant it came from, with just a few exceptions. So it might be interesting to test your fave clone lines by sampling their hash and comparing it to their buds.

Obviously it's not accurate..... but I think it gives some idea of what terpenes do for your brain for each strain.

I found that a headachey haze hybrid can be tamed in its hash form .... Suggesting that terpenes are sometimes a bad thing.

Sounds like either a questionable mix or questionable water. Start by eliminating variables. Like changing water and ice sources to start with.

 

[standsideways]

^^ erm, but I thought that terpenes give the pungent aromatic flavours like pine etc.
I thought that terpenes give bud the unique flavours per pheno.....
These unique flavours are washed out in water, more or less.

IIRC

Terpenoids=flavor/smell

Terpenes=resin heads "trichs"

 

[Adze]

Terpenes, terpenoids

Terpenes, terpenoids

Terpenes are referred to as terpenoids when denatured by oxidation (like being dried and cured).


http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/


An interesting article about terpenes:

http://cannabisclinicians.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/OS-2011-Terpenes+Minor-CBs.pdf

 

[Nunsacred]

So I'll repeat what I said before but more clearly :

If you want to breed from terpenes, make bubble hash from each mother plant to compare with the bud from that plant.
The plants which lose the most 'goodness' when hashed are the ones with the best terpenes.

It's just a way of helping yourself judge a very subjective trait -you can sort of remove it from a sample of your plant for a better comparison.

 

[k-grower]

Terpenes are referred to as terpenoids when denatured by oxidation (like being dried and cured).


http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/


An interesting article about terpenes:

http://cannabisclinicians.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/OS-2011-Terpenes+Minor-CBs.pdf

nice article, thx.. btw how can i give reputation or do i have to earn it first to give?

 

[Adze]

k-grower,

Glad if it helped . I think you need 50 posts to give rep.

Adze.

 

[wildgrow]

Terpenes are not soluble in water, that's why the ice hash of different varieties taste the same.

Keep on growing

This has not been my experience. Ive found that if the material used is all from the same strain (talking clones here - identical) it tastes like that strain.

 

[Thule]

Ok, so do we have any idea on which terpene does what? I just did extensive searching on Sams posts but found no info. The three most common ones seem to be pinene, limonene and myrcine, but do we know how they affect the high?

 

[vertigo0007]

I have not seen anyone use a Z-nose, does it detect all 80 Cannabinoids and all 130 terpenes? Does it give qualitative and quantitative results to what degree, 1%, .1&, .01%? Does it give acid and neutral Cannabinoids?
It gives a genetic footprint? Are you sure?
-SamS

I can link uou the info on the qualitative assessment of an ultra-fast portable gas chromatograph (zNose™) for analyzing volatile organic chemicals and essential oils in laboratory and greenhouses if you like.
but i can say for sure it does not provide a genrtic foot print. I meant olfactory footprint. My mistake.

 

[RulaTone]

These link may be interesting:
http://www.inaro.de/Deutsch/Kulturpf/Hanf/oilhemp.htm

http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/hemp/iha/jiha5107.html


http://www.olison.ch/9800/index.html

 

[G.O. Joe]

Terpenoids contain oxygen (a fact lost on some chemists), but terpenes do not necessarily oxidize easily. Some might, some might not, some strains put out certain terpenes at certain times, etc. etc. etc. variables. You'd think that breeding for smell is breeding for terpenes, but the smells I like seem to have a lot to do with the cure.

Anything that you can smell is constantly being lost by volatilization, whether the plant is alive or dead; the most volatile terpenes are being lost fastest. Most of the terpenes can be steam distilled easily from the plant matter, dried over MgSO4, and this essential oil can be sent as such to any lab that accepts samples from the public. I wouldn't say it's oil of dope though, and the results will not so identify it to the lab personnel.

I have a feeling that any benefit of terpenes in high-THC material relates to improved aerosolization or absorption at the alveoli; that doesn't have much to do with the specific chemicals really. It's just the feeling I get when I purify oil more and more and then smoke it - as many of us have found, THC is really sticky and forms an impenetrable gum on things, really hard to wash off. And, the purer it is, the more easily it condenses on things and doesn't budge. Yes, I know - employees of licensed European growers spin different theories (that they and others with access to legitimate science seem reluctant to prove in any way).

As for the zNose, getting multiple peaks on a GC is easier than finding out what they mean. If you calibrate it with one specific volatile every day, the analysis journals say it works fine. If you want to compare peak shapes between plants, that's fine. And, "A limitation of this GC, is the short column which reduces the resolution of VOCs with similar retention times such as monoterpenes or sesquiterpenes."; from:

Practical approaches to plant volatile analysis
Dorothea Tholl, Wilhelm Boland, Armin Hansel, Francesco Loreto, Ursula S.R. Röse, Jörg-Peter Schnitzler
The Plant Journal Volume 45, Issue 4, pages 540–560, February 2006
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-313X.2005.02612.x/pdf

 

[vertigo0007]

..

 

[Thule]

"Together, these data would support the hypothesis that myrcene is a prominent sedative terpenoid in cannabis, and combined with THC, may produce the ‘couch-lock’ phenomenon of certain chemotypes that is alternatively decried or appreciated by recreational cannabis consumers."

Thanks for the link vertigo.