Blumat auto watering

[dr-dank]

Thanks Rives, (and jh). Some good info here. The part about soaking with caps off is golden.

As I have been catching up I saw mention of tying the end of the dripper or using clamp (clothes pin) to disable drips. Leaving a bowl of water with unused carrots in my setup seems less than ideal. I like the idea of removing for clean/soak/maintenance and pinching off the drip line.

Another question, since you are all so accommodating.

I did read the BM and coco thread. I'm a little freaked by the idea of 0 runoff.

I know I can always top water periodically to flush. That was my plan, about 1x week.

The coco folks seem sold on continuous use of drip clean. The mdss claims only P/K. Already give them that with lucas.

I find it hard to believe that using w/o runoff would clear anything, as it all stays in the pot, to include the drip clean now ionically bounded (or whatever).

As I do perpetual and plants have different needs but all get the same fert I tend to think that some flushing/run off is a good thing. Worst case waste time and nutes, and I now do by hand every day, right?

What is the thinking on drip clean allowing no run off and/or the need to do some flushing now and then when using blumat, specifically for coco and perpetual?

Regards

 

[rives]

You don't want to clamp off the line and leave the spike laying around in open air for more than an hour or so. The spike will quickly lose moisture and turn the valve on, which shouldn't matter if the line is pinched, but the moisture loss will mean that you need to refill the spikes and purge the air back out. You can take a short piece of the 3mm line, tie a couple of knots in it and block off the T and then throw the spike in a bowl of water elsewhere.

Also, you don't want to disturb the Blumats any more than necessary - the longer that they are in place, the closer the interface between the media and the spike, the better that they will work. Resist the temptation to screw around with them unless you are certain that you have a problem that needs addressing.

I'v been using DripClean with coco and zero runoff for years now, and it works fine. I do flush my mothers about every 6-9 months, but never the flowering plants. You can easily top water/flush however you want - the Blumats will sense the excess moisture and stop flow until the moisture level drops down to the point that they need to turn back on.

 

[Weed Killer]

Absolutely. Gravity feed from the reservoir to a genuine blumat pump/ accumulator system-

http://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=165

Too rich for my purposes, but probably great for other people.

they stole my design
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5198162&postcount=2173

 

[rives]

they stole my design
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5198162&postcount=2173

I saw that. It looked they even used your parts list from what I recall....

 

[Jhhnn]

they stole my design
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5198162&postcount=2173

Please don't take this wrong, but that basic design has probably been in use longer than either of us has been alive. The same & similar arrangements are commonly used in well water systems.

That's not to criticize you ingenuity at all, just to say that a lot of other people have used their noodle to do basically the same thing.

 

[Weed Killer]

Very true, it is not a groundbreaking design just some parts slapped together, but if anyone wants to do it cheaper than sustainable village they can

 

[jav2043]

Very true, it is not a groundbreaking design just some parts slapped together, but if anyone wants to do it cheaper than sustainable village they can

I been struggling with the idea of gravity feed for my space but due to the almost $800 price tag I been stuck on design. Could you share your parts list and set up design. I thought I read thru most of this thread but could have missed it if you have done so already. Would be great help thanks.

 

[dr-dank]

Thanks again Rives. Now up to page 68, and as predicted my questions were answered. Funny how that worked. Sorry I made you repeat.

Its hard but will give the no DTW to flush the media a go.

My Units should arrive tomorrow. I have made changes to my space to accommodate 5G bucket up top. I will keep the existing DTW setup, with a matching 5G catch basin as insurance. Will do a single outlet into a loop with a drain, will and the vent line as suggested.

Will be adding some drip clean to the 6/9 Rezipie. May reduce from 650 ppm to more like 500 based on how the plants do. It will be warm up top, so will likely add some bleach/dm zone and shoot for a dead rez. I now bubble the RO and mix nutes right before use. May add a bubbles to the rez. Will see how things go first.

Thanks again for the great info. Excited to see how this works. Been in the hand watered rut for so ling now.

Regards

Edit to add: Now up to page 157. Great thread.

I will test with the 5g but plan to upgrade to a 10G with matching catch tank to avoid floods.

Meanwhile my BMs arrived. More or less loose in box (just a bottom insert for the cones, about 1/2 of which came loose), but no damage. Wish I would have bought the extra 3mm, as was warned so many times. Even in my 2x3 closet I have some plants on up to 6" spacers I so really do need the extra length. I now have some extra tube (as part of the 10 pack of drip extenders, as it had two-day prime shipping) on order.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LLOUKO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Its only 6 more feet of tubing, but I plan to branch off the 8mm T with to a short length of the 3mm, then to a 3/32nd T that will feed two carrots. This will cut down on back-haul to the outer feed ring and so maximize what tubing I have.

I was surprised how many bubbles came off the cones/lids as I held under water. Light taps helps dislodge many; they do want to cling. I need to find my syringe. Doing under a faucet, as per the instructions is less than ideal.

I found it cool you can test their operation in the bucket with your lungs. After soaking and while they are under water, simply blow through the line and adjust the cap until it just stops. Remove from the water and after a few seconds air will again flow. Place back under water and bigger than shit they shut off again.

All I need to begin testing is another stupid 8mm T to complete my ring at the drain end.

The provided rez adapter (through the hull) worked great with no leaks. I drilled to 15/32 with a uini-bit (from harbor freight). This is just undersized from the 12mm they called for. As a result I was able to "screw" the fitting through the hole with no filing for a nice snug fit. Rubber washer on the inside!

 

[dr-dank]

bubbles or foriegn matter? Use a filter?

bubbles or foriegn matter? Use a filter?

Sorry, have BM on the brain! About 1/2 way through this thread and filtration does not seem to come up much.

After reading of the random fails that most attribute to bubbles I started wondering in perhaps some might stem from foreign matter getting into water and then clogging?

This got me thinking of an inline filter. I see that BM sells one, but seems a bit fugly, and pricy.

Curious if anyone has thoughts on the below? Seems with 3/8th working for the 8MM with friction fit it would be easy to add one.

I could see where even a small amount of contamination, say from coco, could lead to some issues on those 3mm drip lines.

Edit with I think a better filter. Cheaper, better filtration, and built in hose barb. I believe that 1/4" ID, and not 3/8ths is the best match for the 8mm.

Have one ordered, will update:

http://www.vacmotion.com/Details.aspx?Cat=InlineFilters&Id=1308

 

[dr-dank]

At page 197. I will make it through.....

As per above post, around page 187 I did see some mention of the BM filter, but seemed not much interest other than it would clog. I feel the above would be fine for chem salts....

I could not fit a larger res up top so have made a "lower feeds the upper" system as per this thread. I decided to go high and close to maximize water pressure and away time should the pump fail. Used a 1/2 barb for the inlet and 3/4 on the output to help guard against overflow. The 1" OD hose was $19 at hemp depot for 10' and is a bear to work with, more so in cramped space.

Now I own a 1.25" hole sole. Only 5 bucks at the hemp depot. Same size bung for both fittings, which I already had. Used gaskets on both inner and outer. Cut down, and then sanded the ribs a bit and so far no leaks. Expoxied a 1/2" elbow into the inlet to hold down on splashing.

When I tested with only ~ 20" of head the pump was just able to overcome drain. Once elevated to the ~ 8' shelf the added head pressure results in much slower fill and things hold steady just at drain mid-line. Added some strain relief to take some of teh tubing weight off the bucket and fitting as I feared it would eventually fail (the bucket). That 1" tube is heavy, did I mention that?

The pump is a little giant PE-1 #518200, also already mine from a previous try at drip. Current price is 53 bucks. I believe I bought at the HD. Its a 170 GPH pump; the specs state :"100 GPH @ 5 ft". My setup has about 8 feet to the inlet and the 3/4 drain is able to keep up with no issues. That was very important.

Going to run the pump 4x a day for 5 minutes or so. Depends on what my digital timer (cheap model DT-27) can do.

You can also see the vent.

Down below I could not fit both a 10G drain and a 5G feeder res. Opted for a single 20G drain that then holds the 5G feeder res inside. I think pretty cool.

Thanks again for the interesting thread and needed diversion. Excited to get some automation back up.

 

[Jhhnn]

I discovered that it's nearly impossible to get the air out of the small chamber above the 3 little holes inside the cap. That was frustrating until it came me that they probably made it that way on purpose, that the 3 little holes exploit surface tension to make it that way. They could have just left it completely open. That little bit of air is, I think, scientifically designed to act as a buffer creating a differential between opening moisture level and closing moisture level. Or so it seems. All of mine work fine after I gave up trying to get that out. At the tiny pressure & displacement differentials involved, more air would prevent the valve from opening at all, of course.

They're quite ingenious, and the marketing is just as ingenious. The kits keep the price low enough to be attractive & work decently, but more stuff is needed to optimize it. Once a person finds out how well the system works, that's what they'll want so they'll buy more highly proprietary stuff. They price the desired bits & pieces on the high side for that extra Ka-ching!

They're smart in a lot of ways.

I'm ordering 30 meters of the 3mm tubing so that I can fab manifolds, mount them at table top height on each sidewall of the enclosure, run 3mm tubing from there to each pot. I also discovered that 8D finish nails make good plugs for the 3mm tubing so they'll be incorporated into the design. Pics when I have them together.

 

[LostInEthereal]

Whew that was a long read! It would be nice if so many redundant questions weren't asked along the way contributing to all the clutter, but well worth the time.

Anyway, it seems that all the collective experience here tells us the higher the pressure the better. And with SV offering the pump kits and the like, I'm curious how many people are going that route vs dual res (or even single res hand-topped for that matter)?

I ordered a kit from Amazon (patio + 5gal res) then some stuff simultaneously from SV and Blumatsystems (same peeps), but I'm waiting to set it all up. Problem is I'm on first grow and have plants of differing stages of development and thus nutrient profiles (and pot sizes and type, medium composition, etc). So I'm not sure if I'll even try to incorporate the BM into this grow or wait and reconfigure the tent with my next run to do the initial setup. I just know I'm partially neglecting my plants, and the BM can help pickup the slack.

I have all the fittings I need, quick connects, extra 3mm, etc. to get started with a looped 5-gal fed hand-topped reservoir (less than 3' above BM with available desk). I just think given all the inconsistencies with the plants it's not worth it just yet? Any comments would be appreciated. I should note, all 4 are basically first few days of 12/12, but with two massive and clearly ready to flower and the other two shoved in there because there's no room in the veg tent.

I would like to close with a big thanks to all those that contributed. I can think of a few big names, but I wouldn't want to thank them specifically and leave out someone just as note-worthy. So all, sit back, spark one up, as you deserve it.

 

[dr-dank]

Hey Lost. Only way out if at different stages is to use multiple reservoirs, feed them the same, or use the bm for water only and then hand water in fert. As I feed with every watering the latter would be hard. I also feed 6/9 at all stages, veg, early and late flower, so that makes BM a no brainer.

The higher the res the better but I think you are still within stated limits.

HTHs

Edit to add I have tested my res and installed the 8MM Ts. I received the small extra length of 3mm and plan to turn up my BMs tonight.

I have been soaking the cones for about 3 days now. I noticed that every one had a sizable bubble. I bleed them well the first time they went in so perhaps shows that a long soak is needed. I did not flush with syringe.

As a tip, I took an extra piece of 3mm and tied a night as close to the end, then snipped in about 1/4" up to make a set of 3mm plugs for unused Ts. My patio kit came with 2 such pieces. I simply did same thing but shorter. I did not like the idea of tying of a feedline with a tight knot for a long time that I would later plan to use for feeding. Just seemed better to leave that stress to some small scraps that will serve the plug role.

 

[rives]

Lost could also feed all of the plants at a low rate suitable for the needs of the immature plants and supplement the more mature plants with hand watering at a higher strength.

 

[LostInEthereal]

Yeah I thought about a general base feed with supplemental hand-watering (beats the hell out of hand-watering all of them, right?) and foliar feeding if necessary. Already done this a few times with boost so I could just dilute main nutes down for the young'ns.

Blah! I'm not sure what happened but I deleted half of my post. I think I plam dragged and hit space, but, whatever. Time to go work on the BM!

 

[heady blunts]

had a bunch of runaways yesterday. it seemed like when I fixed one it set off another.

I believe it is a delayed result of letting the res run dry last week.

I ended up replacing several comes that had gotten over dry and had big air bubbles in them.

just another example of why you always want a solution for floods before you set these babies up.

we've got drains in the floor so no worries over here. used my cute little shop vac for the puddles. had a couple dozen carrots full and soaking in case of any events like this.

seemed like it was under control after a few hours of checkin in on them.

it pays to be prepared for the inevitable! keep carrots soaking, make sure you have drainage, huge drip trays, or pond liner over the whole room and up the walls a foot. keep a quality wet/dry shop vac in the garden. then you're golden.

keep it green friends!

 

[Bmac1]

Words of wisdom ^^^

Ive been thinking about blumats lately but this scenario makes me paranoid as there are no drains where my set up is.

 

[heady blunts]

bmac my first time using them was in the storage space above the bedroom closet. my sweetie pie was like, "you flood my clothes, I flood your FACE. xoxo!" lol.

drains are great, but you can safely run blumats without them.

all ya gotta do is make sure your drip trays are bigger than your res. if you've got an 18 gallon tote for a res, put a 32 gallon under each container.

or pond liner the whole room with a single piece that is big enough to go up the walls at least 12". make sure you are neat when you're folding the corners. fix the top edge with finish washers if necessary. if you've got 12" up the walls, each square foot of your room can hold almost 7.5 gallons of water. if you want a bigger res go up the walls higher.

if that shit fully floods you're protected. now all you gotta do is figure out how to drain it! shop vac ftw with less than 5 gallons.

if you come back to a closet sized swimming pool then you might prefer a big ass submersible pump lol.

 

[Jhhnn]

Words of wisdom ^^^

Ive been thinking about blumats lately but this scenario makes me paranoid as there are no drains where my set up is.

Yep. Floor drains or overflow containment are a must. I lined the space with pond liner a few inches up the walls & at the door. A person could go further by setting up a self priming pump on a float switch as emergency backup.

The required flow rate for a handful of blumats is quite low so I limit delivery from the mains to the reservoir float switch with a hand valve to increase reaction time in case of a runaway. I probably wouldn't use them if the grow space weren't in a utility cellar. My worst case scenario is a pita rather than disaster.

 

[Bmac1]

Im in a 5 x 5 tent so lining the whole room isnt an option for me. Big totes under the pots would work, possibly a 4 x 4 tray with a bit of a smaller res.