Blumat auto watering

[Dave Coulier]

According to my records, I ranged from 6 to 7-3/4 tablespoons of the Osmocote in 3 gallon air pots. As I recall, the feed rates were very forgiving - much more so than I expected. I'm not sure how the weight vs volume calcs out, but it sounds like I might have been feeding much more heavily than you (I wasn't supplementing the feed with anything). Looking back at my pictures, there was some sporadic tip burn, but it was pretty insignificant.

Oh, wow that is ALOT. At 1 tablespoon/gallon of media, when paired with blumats(water only), EC levels in the soil solution of 10+mS/cm, 2000ppm+. Monitored via Hanna Suction Lysimeter + Bluelab combo meter.

Your observations about lack of leaf tip scorching is spot on with my experience. I believe the reason is because blumats create a soil solution that never dries down. It helps acts as a buffer, whereas hand-watered plants experience a dry-down which IME leads to more leaf tip scorching.

 

[Jhhnn]

Figured out that I needed to get the plants off of 5 gal buckets & down to the floor while I can still get in there & move around. Otherwise, I was afraid they'd be hitting the lights. They grew 2" in 3 days since I switched to 12/12 & are bushing out nicely. Def had to readjust the blumats with the reservoir being higher in relation to the pots. It's a reason for those who have a floor drain to use the pressure regulator system if they're just using water like me. Pot height wouldn't matter much if at all.

I'm really stoked at how well this is working.

 

[rives]

Oh, wow that is ALOT. At 1 tablespoon/gallon of media, when paired with blumats(water only), EC levels in the soil solution of 10+mS/cm, 2000ppm+. Monitored via Hanna Suction Lysimeter + Bluelab combo meter.

Your observations about lack of leaf tip scorching is spot on with my experience. I believe the reason is because blumats create a soil solution that never dries down. It helps acts as a buffer, whereas hand-watered plants experience a dry-down which IME leads to more leaf tip scorching.

Interesting. I had no way of measuring the EC at the time and was just going by the plant's feedback - they always appeared to be very happy girls. It will be interesting to see how your run turns out. I was always very happy with the simplicity of the CRFs, but the taste was so harsh that I wound up using most of the product in topical creams. What temperatures are you running? My understanding is that higher temperature causes the prills to release more nutrient, and my temperatures usually run in the mid- to high-70's.

Figured out that I needed to get the plants off of 5 gal buckets & down to the floor while I can still get in there & move around. Otherwise, I was afraid they'd be hitting the lights. They grew 2" in 3 days since I switched to 12/12 & are bushing out nicely. Def had to readjust the blumats with the reservoir being higher in relation to the pots. It's a reason for those who have a floor drain to use the pressure regulator system if they're just using water like me. Pot height wouldn't matter much if at all.

I'm really stoked at how well this is working.

You don't have these under the 315's yet? I think that you will be happily surprised at the combination of them and the Blumats!

 

[Dave Coulier]

Interesting. I had no way of measuring the EC at the time and was just going by the plant's feedback - they always appeared to be very happy girls. It will be interesting to see how your run turns out. I was always very happy with the simplicity of the CRFs, but the taste was so harsh that I wound up using most of the product in topical creams. What temperatures are you running? My understanding is that higher temperature causes the prills to release more nutrient, and my temperatures usually run in the mid- to high-70's.



You don't have these under the 315's yet? I think that you will be happily surprised at the combination of them and the Blumats!

I too found it suprising how healthy and fast growing the plants were with very high EC levels. Marijuana is rather tolerant when it comes to ec-stress. Moreso than I ever realized before I began using CRFs.

My media temperature usually runs from 68-75, so about the same range as yours. Media temperature affecting the release rates isnt likely to be an issue for most of us imo.

 

[Jhhnn]

You don't have these under the 315's yet? I think that you will be happily surprised at the combination of them and the Blumats!

Some time in August. I need to finish the batch, then modify the current ducted reflector & don't want to do a rush job. I'm also mulling over ways to create manifolds so that the 8mm tubing is fixed in place & much longer 3mm segments lead to each blumat.

The 12 carrot kit is minimalist. It works well with some fussing, but is kind of a tease, leading to the purchase of more blumat stuff to get a really nice arrangement. Had I understood the hardware, I'd have upgraded from the start, saved on shipping.

So far, it's a little like remodeling an old house- costs at least twice as much & takes twice as long as I'd figured.

 

[heady blunts]

I'm also mulling over ways to create manifolds so that the 8mm tubing is fixed in place & much longer 3mm segments lead to each blumat.

that's a good way to go. here's how i just set mine up:

those little white clips are for running coaxial cable or something. you should be able to find them at any hardware store. they work great for the 8mm feed line!

 

[Jhhnn]

that's a good way to go. here's how i just set mine up:

View Image View Image

those little white clips are for running coaxial cable or something. you should be able to find them at any hardware store. they work great for the 8mm feed line!

That's the upgrade silicone 8mm tubing, correct?

The black poly stuff comes in a pretty tight coil & desperately wants to stay that way, even after being in the oven on warm for half an hour. It might eventually relax but I probably won't live that long.

 

[heady blunts]

haha yea that black 8mm tube is the worst.

i've had good luck soaking it in huge pots of boiling water before laying it down.

i always thought a heat gun might work well too, like the paint stripping kind.

i saw the red hose online and dropped the extra cash on it. i knew i'd be running a lot of it so i treated myself. was it worth it? i dunno, i prob could have run the whole thing with the black stuff but it was really easy with the red. also i have a sweet hose i can use to hand water and it stays neatly coiled when i'm not using it, but is easy to use on any plant in the room. also i always suspected the black hoses heat up under the lamps...

 

[rives]

I used pieces of PVC pipe between the tent legs to support the tubing. Mine is fed from both sides and graded so that it will let air bubbles rise to the top (center of the back), and there is a solenoid valve on a drain returning to the reservoir that automatically purges the air. The tubing on the right front is for hand-watering, purging the lines, or whatever. The PVC comes in very handy for tying branches back, keeping electrical cords and ropes from ratchet reflector hangers out of the way, etc.

 

[Jhhnn]

I used pieces of PVC pipe between the tent legs to support the tubing. Mine is fed from both sides and graded so that it will let air bubbles rise to the top (center of the back), and there is a solenoid valve on a drain returning to the reservoir that automatically purges the air. The tubing on the right front is for hand-watering, purging the lines, or whatever. The PVC comes in very handy for tying branches back, keeping electrical cords and ropes from ratchet reflector hangers out of the way, etc.

View Image

Yeh, the only way to control the 8mm poly is to lash it down tight. I'm thinking that I may construct manifolds on 1x2's down the sidewalls at tabletop height. I've been starting seedlings on a table, then moving them down to 5 gal bucket height & then down to the floor, so I'll happily have to twiddle the gravity feed blumats at each move. I just need to make the geometry right to avoid kinking the long 3mm lines, use unions at the pots. Moving the light up & down with my system is not practical at all.

Can you go into it a little bit how your system works, what the basic components are? Might be helpful to a lot of people.

If I lost it in this giant thread, maybe you can point me to it?

 

[rives]

I think that most of my setup is documented in here somewhere, but finding it would be a trick.

I have three systems that I use sporadically. For my bonsai moms, I have an old freezer with a couple of PL-L lamps in it and a Roughneck tote sitting on top for a reservoir. I have the same size tote in the bottom in case I have a runaway. ALWAYS keep in mind that eventually, there WILL be runaways. This is a single-ended system feeding the Blumats.

The tent that I use most frequently is 30" x 30". It is in an unused bathroom and sits on top of the tub so that runaways are drained straight to the sewer system. At this time, it uses a single 315 CMH for flowering and the VolksLED for vegging. The blumats are fed via the reservoir system below. The large lower rez is a 20-gallon pet food container with a Danner Pondmaster 350gph lift pump and a smaller aquarium stir pump. The lift pump connects to a 3/4" PVC pipe that feeds a 4-gallon bucket located as near the ceiling as possible. The feed pipe doesn't need to be that big for the volume moved, but for column rigidity. Higher volume lift pumps are needed because the head pressure drops the volume very quickly.

The 4-gallon bucket has two discharge lines, one of which had a vertical T on it. The upper leg of the T has a piece of clear tubing on it to act as a sightglass for checking the reservoir level, and the two 8mm lines drop down and feed each side of the tent. The lines run all the way to the front of the tent and then double back, converging in the center of the back so it forms a continuous loop. As I mentioned above, the system is graded to allow air bubbles to rise to the high point and then be purged by an automatic circuit. This is overkill for the current dual-reservoir system, but the earlier version had fresh water topping off the upper reservoir. Our residential water supply drops from a very high elevation and has a great deal of entrained air as a result. It caused me endless headaches with vapor locks, including losing one crop and almost losing a second one (I'm frequently out of town for extended periods). This isn't an issue with the dual reservoir arrangement.

The two timers in the picture below are for the lift pump control and the solenoid valve that purges off trapped air. The lift pump runs twice a day for 5 minutes each time, and the excess volume just overflows out of the upper reservoir back to the lower one via the 1-1/4" pipe. The purge valve runs 3 times a week for a couple of minutes, and discharges into the lower reservoir.

I use a similar arrangement on a 4' x 4' tent. It has a 30-gallon drum for the lower reservoir and a flood-and-drain pan to catch runaways - it has to be manually emptied when it gets used. I run (2) 315's in this tent. I am sloooowly getting a closet converted to take the place of the larger tent. It is set up to run up to (3) of the 315's if I want and has a drain plumbed into the sewer system. It will use the same components from the big tent to feed the blumats.

 

[marmarb]

thats dope think im gonna steal i mean borrow that from you lol i know its probably in here some where how many blut mats is needed for say a 2 gal coco pot

 

[Jhhnn]

Thanks, rives. Quite kewl. Like you, I try to anticipate hardware flake-outs. I worked on too much machinery for too long to see it any other way. I'll be on the lookout for air entrainment issues come winter because Denver's water is also processed & piped in from higher altitude.

The loss of delivery volume as head increases is quite pronounced with the mag pumps. Gotta go to the charts to buy the right one the first time, as I found out w/ aquariums.

 

[rives]

thats dope think im gonna steal i mean borrow that from you lol i know its probably in here some where how many blut mats is needed for say a 2 gal coco pot

1 will be plenty. I used a single spike in 3-gallon pots for a long time, and I don't think that there would be a problem with going substantially larger than that.

 

[Jhhnn]

1 will be plenty. I used a single spike in 3-gallon pots for a long time, and I don't think that there would be a problem with going substantially larger than that.

I seem to be doing well with single spikes & single drip points in the 5 gal fabric pots. Dripping in the center is advantageous, I think, at least in soil mixes. Their distributor drippers & stakes might be advantageous in even larger pots, dunno.

 

[heady blunts]

I'll repost these as they do get lost in the massiveness of this thread.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I'm getting ready to throw some plants outside this year about 30-40 plants, in 20-45gal smart pots, which blumat system would be the cheapest/best to buy? I would think that the 20 gal should be ok with 2 regular blumat carrots, but am kinda worried about the 45gal, i was thinking bout using 3 carrots per 45gal, but my concern is that there will be only 3 spots where the dirt is wet (im using a peat base) instead of an even watering? and will it give an even watering to a 45gal? bottom too?

Or with this size smart pots i should use a mega-carrot blumat? or multiple regualr ones will work, the pots are only about 20'' tALL MAX...

Im in a similar situation as you. I want to throw a few plants outdoors this year, and pair them with blumats, but Im only used to having square and round plastic pots up to 3 gallons in my garden.

I can tell you though that the larger & taller your containers you use, the more drippers or blumats you'll need. I dont have much trouble getting a 3 gallon container moist from bottom to top with only one blumat carot. 3 gallon containers are probably a foot tall. At 20", maybe you should buy some mega carrots and try them out unless someone here as experience using blumats outdoors in similar containers.

also, im growing in peat based super soil mix, so im kinda curios about wet-dry cycles, i know usually you would want a wet-dry cycle to happen for soil (not coco) , do these blumats provide enough dry time so root rot isnt an issue? or is blumats only recommended for coco?

Would it be better to initially insert the carrot when the soil is alittle drier so that is the control that the blumat will try to achieve before it waters again? or is installing it when soil is just watered the way to go? and it will still provide a dry cycle?

Thanks in advance! this place rocks and im soooo excited to use blumats compared to a normal timed drip system for my outdoor, its like smart bombs compared to cannons, the future is here lol

The wet/dry cycle is a myth. You've been mislead, but the purity of the blumats will lead you into the light. There is no wet/dry cycle when using blumats. Once they are properly dialed in, your media should be moist from top to bottom, although expect a slight variation between moisture levels top to bottom. The bottom of my media is always moist, with no pooling of water ever, and there is usually a very thin dryish layer at the top.

Blumats work great in peatlite mixes. I use Promix BX w/ 15% Calcined DE.(Optisorb from O'Reilley's Auto, but it must say from LP minerals on it.) Ive never used coco, and I dont need to. Blumats work well with a variety of medias from reports in this thread, but avoid rockwool.

Root rot isn't an issue unless you're over-watering them with the blumats. Throw in some beneficial microbes to help ward off root pathogens if you're worried about RR. I recommend Bioworks Rootshield Plus. I always use it.

You'll want to saturate your media before inserting the carots, but I recommend doing it slowly. Dont just pour a bunch of water on the media and jam the carrot in. You must give the media time to allow the moisture to wick throughout so there are no dry spots. Another poster recommends watering, then waiting overnight then inserting the carot I believe. Its worked out pretty well for me so far by waiting overnight.

Once inserted, turn the knob to where the drop is hanging but not dropping, then twist two more turns to tighten it up. Observe the rootzone over the next few days, and then adjust the blumats if necessary, but very minor adjustments if required. Not full arrows. A half, 3rd or less sometimes.

After an initial dial in period of less than a week, its usually hands off till harvest time from there on out.

 

[Jhhnn]

^^^

Thanks, Dave. I made the unfortunate discovery that soil mixes can easily be too heavy, retain moisture too well at the bottom in 5 gal plastic pots leading to root problems. I think that's why some people advocate wet/dry cycles. With Gascanastan's soil mix (more or less) & blumats in air or fabric pots it's a non-issue. This is my first run with blumats & I'm already completely sold on them. As you say, I've seen the light. I'll use some ewc tea along the way- it's a good thing I have a long spout watering can for that because these girls are bushing out to fill the whole space, growing like mad.

 

[marmarb]

Just received my deck and patio setup the one with 12 carrots. Since ive decided to run either 16 or 32 2 gal coco pots inside of a 10x10 grow tent. I have a few questions can i run all say 32 carrots off of 1 5gal but being constantly topped off by a 30 gal res with a over fill line returning back to the 30 gal rez. and 2 would that be to many in that tent with a 8 week veg.

10x10 will be lit by 4000w

 

[jav2043]

^^^^

Have the same concerns. I have a 16x12 room with 8ft ceilings and wondering if this elevated reservoir could work on 50 or more plants or do I need a pressurized pump set up? Any help from would be appreciated. Thanks