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Balancing Soil Minerals
- Thread starter m_astera
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MJtheIndicator
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Tactical Farmer
Member
Boron rich = chickpeas, almonds, beans, avocado, bananas, walnuts, broccoli, prunes, oranges, raisins, apples, pears, red grapes, legumes.
LAB fermented tonic for buds n puds..
LAB fermented tonic for buds n puds..
All this talk about K and coir makes me think that I may have some knowledge to add.
I have been using a coco coir mix and doing organic principles for 10 or more years.
Some of the things that I have seen have much to do with K and Na.
It wasn't until the 19th century that science was able to discern the difference between K and Na.
This is how close they are.
Coir in bricks or bales sometimes have much salt associated with them.
Another interesting fact is as coir breaks down it is constantly releasing potassium.
Being that all cations are held to the CEC of the mix they have huge influence on each other.
To much sodium causes K to be displaced.
Sodium excess may cause plant toxicity or induce deficiencies of other cations especially CA, Mg and K.
While K plays a part in many important regulatory roles in the plant it is also essential in nearly all processes needed to sustain growth and reproduction.
Potassium helps move nitrate nitrogen into and within the plant.
K stimulates nitrate uptake by plant roots.
K competes with calcium and magnesium and sodium for uptake.
See what all this talk about hollow stems sent me.
Thanks Michael for this thread!
Rambling Rats
I have been using a coco coir mix and doing organic principles for 10 or more years.
Some of the things that I have seen have much to do with K and Na.
It wasn't until the 19th century that science was able to discern the difference between K and Na.
This is how close they are.
Coir in bricks or bales sometimes have much salt associated with them.
Another interesting fact is as coir breaks down it is constantly releasing potassium.
Being that all cations are held to the CEC of the mix they have huge influence on each other.
To much sodium causes K to be displaced.
Sodium excess may cause plant toxicity or induce deficiencies of other cations especially CA, Mg and K.
While K plays a part in many important regulatory roles in the plant it is also essential in nearly all processes needed to sustain growth and reproduction.
Potassium helps move nitrate nitrogen into and within the plant.
K stimulates nitrate uptake by plant roots.
K competes with calcium and magnesium and sodium for uptake.
See what all this talk about hollow stems sent me.
Thanks Michael for this thread!
Rambling Rats
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
Wood ash (specifically) hardwood looks like a very interesting option. There's not much written on it, but there is some white papers floating around.
I use wood ash in my garden and yard. I mix it in water and dump it as evenly as I can. Over the years my yard and garden has been spectacular. A double edge sword because I have to mow twice a week in the wet months, but very healthy.
I use wood ash in my garden and yard. I mix it in water and dump it as evenly as I can. Over the years my yard and garden has been spectacular. A double edge sword because I have to mow twice a week in the wet months, but very healthy.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
It is. It's different. It's gotten really stagnant in here, mainly because everyone is basically doing the same thing.
Of all the things we buy for this hobby, and the money for such, books are almost never considered. Michaels book, and teaming with microbes are must haves. You can apply the knowledge to basically anything in your yard.
search "soil" on acresusa.com
This is a indispensable resource of books, video and audio for all who live a wholesome life and love the soil.
You can also find the Ideal soil there.
I highly recommend ECO farm by Charles Walters.
This is a indispensable resource of books, video and audio for all who live a wholesome life and love the soil.
You can also find the Ideal soil there.
I highly recommend ECO farm by Charles Walters.
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You get off on boron?Wanted to say thanks for this great thread and all the information and contributions within it. I read the entire thing, and I will have to re-read many parts again.
Not sure if its really on subject, but thought I would share a really short story. Have a friend that is a retired long time organic grower. They told me for many years their per plant average had reached a plateau, trying many different strategies with no significant increase. Eventually they switched to no-till organic layering, and finally increased the average. They do use soil tests to help specify the next layer, but typically have a complex mix that I assume is similar to the 4-8-4, as in it will broadly recharge the soil
They are very adamant about feeding their worms, and will often provide specific inputs simply because the worms like them, or to ensure the worms don't run out of food and migrate out of the beds. With the brief discussion of when certain organics are actually available, I was sort of surprised nobody brought up worms. Surely worms must help with the availability of minerals as well as combat stratification within the soil layers?
Myself I would like to switch to a no-till strategy eventually, but I think this year I will test, amend and at least till the top 6-10 inches or so of the soil. I just cant tell my friend, or they may turn me in for worm-homicide.
Could be wrong, but I think Kangtiva was using organic layering as well. Many ways to skin a cat. Would be nice to have a really balanced soil, then work on building really healthy biology over time and possibly not have to run a tiller.
Anyways thanks again for all the info,
Mr^^
Not sure if its really on subject, but thought I would share a really short story. Have a friend that is a retired long time organic grower. They told me for many years their per plant average had reached a plateau, trying many different strategies with no significant increase. Eventually they switched to no-till organic layering, and finally increased the average. They do use soil tests to help specify the next layer, but typically have a complex mix that I assume is similar to the 4-8-4, as in it will broadly recharge the soil
They are very adamant about feeding their worms, and will often provide specific inputs simply because the worms like them, or to ensure the worms don't run out of food and migrate out of the beds. With the brief discussion of when certain organics are actually available, I was sort of surprised nobody brought up worms. Surely worms must help with the availability of minerals as well as combat stratification within the soil layers?
Myself I would like to switch to a no-till strategy eventually, but I think this year I will test, amend and at least till the top 6-10 inches or so of the soil. I just cant tell my friend, or they may turn me in for worm-homicide.
Could be wrong, but I think Kangtiva was using organic layering as well. Many ways to skin a cat. Would be nice to have a really balanced soil, then work on building really healthy biology over time and possibly not have to run a tiller.
Anyways thanks again for all the info,
Mr^^
i recently watched a time=lapse of some worms converting layered raw materials. it's a step sideways in the context of this thread because in it, we create that optimum environment through balance & a worm dependent system fixes itself. but, there are those of us interested in seeing what happens when you combine balanced mix w/ quality humus/living techs & the worm factor is integral to that ~particularly if like "layering" suggests, there is emulation of the natural process.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I shut down my thread incorporating this discipline for reasons I'm not going to revisit. I'll say this, currently in the vegetative state with my soil samples and its very much noticeable.
It sounds good reading in a thread...it's eye opening in practice.
It sounds good reading in a thread...it's eye opening in practice.
hobbyhorse
Member
The kangavita style layering is what I'm employing this season for the first time. Last years soil mix was re-mineralized then tilled with a rotohoe. Every month since planting I add another metre of compost water in well and add a layer of mulch. A regular buffet for bacteria and other beasties
hobbyhorse
Member
Local stuff. Most likely South Asian influence
50YardLine
Member
Got my Ideal Soil book from Amazon.
It is a spiral bound book, and it came quite damaged. Basically its as fragile as a paperback, and they sent it in a Mylar envelope....... All bent up and creased in many spots.
I can still read the words however, so still a good buy. Just a WTF when I got the package.
It is a spiral bound book, and it came quite damaged. Basically its as fragile as a paperback, and they sent it in a Mylar envelope....... All bent up and creased in many spots.
I can still read the words however, so still a good buy. Just a WTF when I got the package.
neverforget4/20
Member
Stem hollow/solid observation
Stem hollow/solid observation
This is seed grown White Widow fem. This girl was petite from the get go. Posting the pics to show that this main stem was solid and wood like on lower part of plant while hollow further up the stem.
I hadnt thought about it much but i assumed that a plant would be either solid or hollow.
Stem hollow/solid observation
This is seed grown White Widow fem. This girl was petite from the get go. Posting the pics to show that this main stem was solid and wood like on lower part of plant while hollow further up the stem.
I hadnt thought about it much but i assumed that a plant would be either solid or hollow.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I'm assuming you went vegging long, 2 months? Same thing I'm seeing. Turns out I'm deficient on boron from the test I got back. Didn't hurt my yield at all. I had to be careful with moving them as they would easily snap.
Alll roads point to boron for me personally. It was basically nonexistent throughout several lots including the one in process.
Someone in here said low P would give the same result. I think both would do it. I never thought about boron in the past
No real answers here, only observations over the years. I assume hollow stems can be blamed on a fairly large number of things. Environment, genetics, minerals, plant age vs speed of growth.
When a plant grows extremely fast I have notice they tend to be more hollow until the pith can catch up and fill it in. See it a lot more in specific genetics. Strains with large stems in general. Some really nice genetics have those large stems, but personally I hate them for outdoors. Have friends that breed away from large stems, so they can grow large colas with less risk of rot, and no ugly spots on the stem side of a nug where the light never penetrated. Sour Bubble comes to mind, tons of celery stalk phenos, while something like train wreck, mostly thin bendy stalks. Ive had 2 plants side by side, exact same soil, same seed stock, but different phenotypes. One thick celery stems, the other floppy thin vines.
Mr^^
When a plant grows extremely fast I have notice they tend to be more hollow until the pith can catch up and fill it in. See it a lot more in specific genetics. Strains with large stems in general. Some really nice genetics have those large stems, but personally I hate them for outdoors. Have friends that breed away from large stems, so they can grow large colas with less risk of rot, and no ugly spots on the stem side of a nug where the light never penetrated. Sour Bubble comes to mind, tons of celery stalk phenos, while something like train wreck, mostly thin bendy stalks. Ive had 2 plants side by side, exact same soil, same seed stock, but different phenotypes. One thick celery stems, the other floppy thin vines.
Mr^^
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