Balancing Soil Minerals

[TheyCallMeJJay]

If there's one thing I've taken away from this thread it's my soil isn't as good as I can get it. After getting my tests back its time to finally begin the process. I'm only adjusting a small batch of soil so I don't fuck up the entire lot. Then scale up as I get comfortable.

For me, the hardest part about organics is maintenance and consistency within the soil. I've never done soil testing in the past and it's likely the missing link in my skill set. I love the consistency of bottled nutrient, just hated the concept as its not in line with how I was taught 30 some years ago. A personal belief that I wouldn't push on anyone else. One I hold dear none the less.

 

[m_astera]

Hollow Stems

Hollow Stems

I mentioned hollow stems a few pages back and got some replies and questions. My introduction to the hollow stems idea came from reading Carey Reams, who said IIRC that grasses and legumes should have twice as much phosphate as other crops, and that one could tell if they had sufficient P by whether or not the stems were filled with pith all the way to the top, or hollow part or all of the way up. My own limited experience growing maize and legumes, and reading that of others, reinforces that the concept is valid. Alfalfa stems, for instance, with optimum phosphate will be filled with pith all the way to the top. Same with corn/maize. If P is deficient, the stems may be filled partway or not at all. (Hemp/cannabis is of course neither a grass nor legume).

Is this really important? I have no idea. My guess is that if the plant has the genetic ability to fill the stems with pith, for whatever reason, and it doesn't happen because of a nutrient deficiency, then the plant or crop is going to be expressing less than its full potential and that will be reflected in the food, drug, or medicinal quality of the harvest.

 

[m_astera]

Glad Astera is able to help folks here with his book and selling inputs.

I have read his books. Many have a hard time with his guessing when there is so much good science around.

Hi MK-

Nice to know I'm so important to you that you follow me around the web with your vapid comments. I'm also flattered that you bother to sign into Amazon under two different accounts just to one star my work; interestingly the only one star reviews it's ever gotten.

Care to inform the readers why you changed your original five star review that was up for three years to a one star?

I'm waiting to learn where the good science is to be found.

 

[m_astera]

Michael...are you suggesting fertilizer on top of balanced soil?

MJ-

No I'm not. If the soil or media is set up well there should be no need for any other inputs. I'm suggesting a balanced fertilizer for recharging the media between grows. I don't imagine that will work endlessly, but it's easier and quicker than trying to accurately analyze and replace only the nutrients that have been used up during the grow and so far seems to be giving good results. I would still suggest regular soil testing.

 

[milkyjoe]

What up space case. Did you get any cherry flavor to come through on those...we got a hint but smell was straight fuel

 

[m_astera]

CBD strains

CBD strains

I do agree with your post Michael but just to make a point that the high CBD low THC cultivars actually come from hemp varieties developed by government ag ministry farms/labs (to the best of my knowledge) but granted glommed onto by commercial (and altruistic) cannabis growers and bred for improvement.

MM-

I was referring to a strain called CBD Therapy:
CBD Therapy

CBD crew have a world first in releasing this long awaited low THC and high CBD strain in a stable seed form. While there are rumors of seed varieties originating out of hemp strains , the THERAPY is solely derived from recreational high THC cannabis strains and has taken some 4 years to stabilize and find with the use of science.
THC % (average): 0.5 CBD % (average): 8-10
Ratio THC:CBD 1:20+

 

[Boyd Crowder]

M Astera - Thanks for the delightful thread(s)! Im gonna finish wading through this topic , and once im done , you will see me here again, hopefully with some questions.

milkyjoe: so lets get one thing straight , I asked valid questions and you gave a fuck you answer. A simple yes, its worth the heavy lifting would suffice. Thanks Miles.

Trolling is what Im aiming at avoiding and this thread, at a 3 days long read, is ripe for such treatment. I can't tell you how many threads/long reads have been spoiled 6-10 pages in from trolls, petty disputes, and off topic tangents that have frankly , had me throw in the towel.

So yeah , i could give a fuck wether you give a fuck either, joe. and you can condescend on into the new year to your hearts desire, as it obviously makes you feel better about yourself that , hey you are smarter than at least "one" guy in this thread.

That being said, lets be cool, you and me , milky - Im easy to get along with, I dont stir up too much trouble , and we actually have a few things in common , dont we?
So there, theres my olive branch, joe.

Ill see yall here in a few days , after Ive done some learning.

 

[Microbeman]

CBD

CBD

This one seems good 23.8:1 CBD:THC
http://analytical360.com/m/flowers/486659

and 20:1
http://analytical360.com/m/flowers/483071

The well known AC/DC at 25:1
http://analytical360.com/m/flowers/467722
(the genetic origins of AC/DC are supposedly unknown)

Who knows eh?

 

[Space Case]

What up space case. Did you get any cherry flavor to come through on those...we got a hint but smell was straight fuel

It was really fruity for us. I wouldn't say cherry, but fruity. Im so sick of the smell. I shouldn't of monocropped one strain. No matter how good the nose, you'll get sick of it!

 

[milkyjoe]

Michael...have you seen any evidence of Mn measuring good in soil but not in tissue? Either through being chelated by round up or oxidized.

I semi fear real light mixes because of oxygen. Like all things enough is enough. It is almost like you gotta keep em full of water to prevent oxidation...including N to nitrate

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

Before everyone observing hollow stems starts freaking out thinking they have nutrient deficiencies, I thought I'd point out that in Cannabis cultivars, this is a common hereditary trait. Cultivars bred for psychoactive compounds have (generally) less hollow stems but for hemp producing varieties (grown in large fields) this is a preferred trait and is sought in breeding activities.

It stands to reason that certain cultivars and even phenotypes may exhibit throw back genetics to a number of ancestors. One might hypothesize this could be especially apparent in cultivars high in CBD.

This is not to say that certain nutrient deficiencies do not contribute to exaggerated hollow stems. I just did not wish inexperienced growers to be needlessly alarmed if they see hollow stems.

https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-284.html

The one I had (out of 33) was of a clone from a clone of a clone 48 times! From seed 8 years ago. Good lord I forgotten how long Ive ran that strain. It's stood up to the test of time. Truly a classic

 

[xmobotx]

Michael...have you seen any evidence of Mn measuring good in soil but not in tissue? Either through being chelated by round up or oxidized.

I semi fear real light mixes because of oxygen. Like all things enough is enough. It is almost like you gotta keep em full of water to prevent oxidation...including N to nitrate

regionally, our loess is like that; it dries, it dies. the more water it gets, the better it grows. i recently read that soil jokes are the loess form of puns

 

[m_astera]

The one I had (out of 33) was of a clone from a clone of a clone 48 times! From seed 8 years ago. Good lord I forgotten how long Ive ran that strain. It's stood up to the test of time. Truly a classic

From the Purdue U link that MicrobeMan posted in post 172 and was quoted in TheyCallMeJay's post above:

"Highly selected forms of the fiber cultigen possess features maximizing fiber production. Since the nodes tend to disrupt the length of the fiber bundles, thereby limiting quality, tall, relatively unbranched plants with long internodes have been selected. Another strategy has been to select stems that are hollow at the internodes, with limited wood, since this maximizes production of fiber in relation to supporting woody tissues."

Perhaps hollow stems mean nothing when growing for flowers.

 

[Avinash.miles]

i can't remember which icmag member (father earth maybe?) said that he thought hollow stems, in cannabis of course) were tied to lower boron, said something about when he supplemented Boron his stems were solid all thru.

 

[Mate Dave]

Hollow stems seem to transport more water than those with the woody stems. I don't grow many seeds but I have noticed this phenomena. They also callus up better when bruised and manipulated, i'm not sure about if they clone better as all the clones I have ever received have been woody stems pertaining that the better cannabis comes from the Woodier ones.

Some of the SSh and Amnesia I grew last year were hollow and they were not the keepers.

 

[m_astera]

Michael...have you seen any evidence of Mn measuring good in soil but not in tissue? Either through being chelated by round up or oxidized.

I semi fear real light mixes because of oxygen. Like all things enough is enough. It is almost like you gotta keep em full of water to prevent oxidation...including N to nitrate

I haven't seen enough tissue tests vs soil tests of any crop to come to any conclusions. It's a big empty area in research, probably because the focus in agronomy and horticulture has been mostly on yield.

From reading I know that some elements tend to complex with organic matter, which is found in the top few inches of soil outdoors, and these elements become poorly available to crops when the topsoil dries out. Examples are Boron and Copper.

Re Manganese the best I have is a forage/hay sample from Holmes laboratory in Ohio that recommends 20 to 40 ppm Mn.

 

[m_astera]

i can't remember which icmag member (father earth maybe?) said that he thought hollow stems, in cannabis of course) were tied to lower boron, said something about when he supplemented Boron his stems were solid all thru.

Boron would make sense, as it is responsible for Calcium relocation, and Ca is the main transport of sugars into cells. The saying is that Calcium is the truck, Boron is the driver.

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

Hollow stems seem to transport more water than those with the woody stems.

The consumption data I have on hand doesn't support this theory. I did a weigh/water/weigh for for other reasons and this particular pot showed -27% water consumption

I'm doing a feasibility study on utilizing load cells for water delivery.

 

[Mate Dave]

The consumption data I have on hand doesn't support this theory. I did a weigh/water/weigh for for other reasons and this particular pot showed -27% water consumption

I'm doing a feasibility study on utilizing load cells for water delivery.

This isn't the thread for this subject we should start one. I noticed that the plants grown from seed once placed into the final containers I was almost double watering the hollow ones. This was without giving them their full cycle for independent phenotypes. However it was a seed grow and they would need to be ran as clones in any experiment as single pots is not anywhere near accurate enough.

I will follow this up when I do it next with some 'Snype' type pot weighing so that it's accurate.

How did you come to such an accurate conclusion of -27%? You must be an expert....

 

[MJtheIndicator]

regionally, our loess is like that; it dries, it dies. the more water it gets, the better it grows. i recently read that soil jokes are the loess form of puns

I tried to muzzle the chortle, I failed.