Automated PH Control

[Truth]

well it isn't like bio buckets stay fixed at a certain pH, they may take longer to shift, but the shift does happen. to make pH pretty much maintenance free, is nice. right now, I only need to adjust pH, train, top/change res. pretty maintenance free. I would only suggest a PH controller to someone with more than a few plants, unless they have the money and want it. it isn't necessary but it does keep the repetitive work down, allow for less visits to the plants, and piece of mind knowing that your pH is pretty much optimum always.

 

[Grownz]

No hydro system is perfect. There will always be some that claim to never check PH, this is all well and good but one day it will come back and bite you in the ass big time. A PH controller will keep your PH almost constant. Checking PH would become as simple as checking the reading on the digital display and checking your PH down/up bottle level. It would be interesting also to see how much PH down/up you are using each grow. Most of all, as you said truth, it's the peice of mind!

One thing i thought all the controllers were missing is a water temp display... But as water temp does not usually tend to swing as much as PH i suppose it's not a biggy when you can get one for 10 bucks or so. It would just be convient to have all the hydro info on one panel. Just a thought.

 

[nUt_jOb]

That $98 system that pontiac posted a link to above does work. Its the one I have now and will be replacing with the ph Nanny most likely. It only doses ph down (you could make a relay box for ph up) and it is pretty ghetto but it works when you dont use RO water. The biggest problem it has is vaccume dragging additional acid when the pump shuts off.. like the flow would keep going expecially if the acid tank happened to be a little bit higher than the Res. This problem would have been eliminated if I had used a positive displacement pump like all the links above. Just food for thought I guess. Hope it helps.

 

[Guest]

That Welco pump looks very sweet and is no doubt better than what APT offers but those APT pumps seem like they will do just fine and the fact they run off line voltage makes them easier to work with. They're the same one's AquaMedic sells for more.

 

[Grownz]

The welco pump is nice. I'm looking at the APT pumps also. Just saw they provide either AC or DC pumps and wanted to check something.

If you use the 12V version of the controller you would run DC powered pumps.
If you are using the 100-110V or the 220-240V mains-operated controller you would need to run AC powered pumps.

This is how i understand the difference in power supply but last time i studied anything to do with electrical current was over 5 years ago. Correct me if i'm wrong.

The welco pumps seem to be only avaible upto 24VDC form. This would limit you to using the 12VDC version of the controller.

 

[nUt_jOb]

grownz - in my experience you are correct and I have examined the same data for the situation you are looking at and you need to make sure that the electrical "current" maximum of the contacts in the meter are adaquate to handle your desired pump as many if not most are designed to only handle the current necessary to throw a relay or solenoid (not much). The ph meter has a rating for the current it can handle (either AC or DC) and you must verify that the pump you wish to use is safely below that threshold during operation. The last time I checked there were pumps available under the threshold. I would also note that it would be highly preferable to use the 12VDC model in our case because the dramatically lower voltage is far safer for use around water. You could drop a live 12VDC device into your res while being in contact with the water and walk away just fine.. 120VAC - you are toast.

I know I have run into CO2 ppm controllers that could not even handle the amps to throw the associated CO2 solenoid and had to be attached to a relay to do so. This isnt rocket science but a basic understanding of electricity is necessary. And if you dont know.. just ask!

 

[Grownz]

Thanks nut_job! That's what's good about this place, you ask a question and there's always someone to answer it.
I was thinking the 12VDC would be a way to go for the exact reason you listed. The controller comes with the nessacary transformer for the 12VDC at no extra charge anyway.
The controller can from what i see take 2Amps and most of the pumps are 300mA or less which means in theory you could run 4 or more. Not that'd you'd need to run that many expect for nutrient dosage.

 

[Guest]

It's late and I'm tired so I hope I'm getting this correct. While the AC and DC controllers are driven by a different power source this has nothing to do with the dosing contact. From what I understand it is just a relay and would not matter what you're running through as it just acts as an on/off switch. These contacts do not power the pump. I guess if you go with a Welco pump you need a DC adapter to drive it and you might as well get the DC controller. I'm pretty sure you could run a Welco pump driven by a DC adapter and use a 120 VAC driven controller.

I just noticed the ability for some type of differential input with contacts #2 and 3. Doh...didn't see that before.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

yes it should nto matter what supply voltage is used AC or DC as long you can get the correct dosing you need for PH adjustment from both AC and DC motors... which you can.

As I mentioned above the reason I want an AC pump is that I can wire or plug it into the controller of my choice...

I wont be making a unit like the nanny I am actually working on an automated grow and the dosing pump will just be plugged into a controller unit and when the PH probe/meter that is connected to the controller says the rez needs to be dosed the pump will kick in.

here is the controller I am using
http://www.chrontrol.com/products/timers/xt_wm.htm
and here is the PC Gui
http://www.chrontrol.com/products/netcomm.htm

Yeah i know the name is funny as hell considering what I wil be doing with the controller... but this company IS NOT about growing MJ ... please dont call them under that assumption.. they are a company that builds these industrial controllers for process control... they can control anything and everthing in your grow and allow you TOTAL control... I almost forgot they run 400-650ish for this model depending on what functionality you want... I got mine loaded with all the bells and whistles

 

[Guest]

I wont be making a unit like the nanny I am actually working on an automated grow and the dosing pump will just be plugged into a controller unit and when the PH probe/meter that is connected to the controller says the rez needs to be dosed the pump will kick in.

I'm just a bit confused as that's what the Nanny does. I checked out that controller you mentioned and first off like wow. That's some serious hardware. Maybe I'm not understanding it's capabilities fully but seems like a timer and not something you'd run a pH controller through or anything based on a measurement of somesort. I have some fans on timers, some on thermostats, some on speed controllers and I'm wiring up some combo stat/speed controllers boxes for dual speed capabilities. I was looking at a Growtronix but there was someone recently who posted some very negative feedback about it and the company. You said the Croncontrol unit will allow for TOTAL control but I'm missing that. I know this thread is about the Nanny and pH controllers in general but thinking long term how does the Chroncontrol fit in?

 

[Ono Nadagin]

to simplify the controllers deisgn it is basically a 40 event timer attached to 2-6 20amp 277VAC SPDT relays that you would use to turn AC power on to diff devices based upon your defined rule sets.. it also has 8 external inputs that can trigger events as well as user defined programs that can trigger events(relays,inputs or other user defined programs)

So let me try to describe how I will use it to dose PH ... you can either fabricate or purchase a PH monitor you use the alram signal(set point) from the PH monitor as the trigger input that lets the Chrontrol power the relay that controls the dosing pump itself

 

[globel]

look into aquarium controllers. one called Aquatronica can do ph up And Down with any margin it has a auto top off. it has 8 inffinate timmer spots on a power strip temp controller as well up and down with multibul sensores you can link up as many rooms as you want. you can have as many ph monitors as you want all with dosing pumps. same with temp. It can hold lights too. Oh did i mention you can do it all on a pc and evean controll it from online. also you can controll the temp of your res with a chiller and a heater conductividy (EC) of the water it has its own doseing pumps, 3 of them


link any one?

http://www.aquatronica.com/

and to buy it http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/aquatronica.htm

they make this for every outlet uk and au

 

[Ono Nadagin]

globel, tanx for the interesting links... I have never seen that company before... I do a lot of loking at aquarium controllers also as they generally do the same things we do... however that US unit can only handle 1500watts... 1800w/16a peak that wont support a grow room with an ac, lights,pumps and fans

 

[nUt_jOb]

oh that point on the contacts is dead on (I neglected to mention that before), the contacts themselfs provide no current or voltage, that must be provided seperately and independently of the meter itself, however, you could use one 12vdc converter to power both if you splice the wires right and the converter can handle the amperage draw of the two combined.

 

[Grownz]

Wow, this thread kinda took of over my night time. Usually login to see 2 replys max. Some very good info going on here. I'd be very suspicous ofa unit that can be controller or viewed with internet or phone. Just me..

oh that point on the contacts is dead on (I neglected to mention that before), the contacts themselfs provide no current or voltage, that must be provided seperately and independently of the meter itself, however, you could use one 12vdc converter to power both if you splice the wires right and the converter can handle the amperage draw of the two combined.

Ah yes. I was pondering this myself. Didn't think the contacts would provide power directly for the pumps. So the pumps will have to be wired to the dosing contact AND a power source? This would just mean the pump would be wired inline with the contact and power source, with the contact acting as a on/off switch as adversereaction pointed out. I'm really starting to get my head around this so to speak. Thank god there are some very knowlegable people on here.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

for those of you wanting to do aDiY a PH Meter here is a good link with tons of good info... includes a very thurough walk through and schematics

http://www.66pacific.com/ph/ph_1.htm

And there is no reason to be worried about a unit that connect to the internet if it connection is secure and encrypted

 

[Guest]

nice

 

[BlindDate]

Hey Nut_Job...Did you ever get that Nanny? I've been procrastinating, waiting for another report.

 

[Guest]

Frankly, I'm not sure if tight control of PH is the best strategy. If you look at all the PH vs. nutrient uptake charts, there's no single optimal PH. Most of the commercial PH controllers I've seen don't allow for adjustable hysteresis/deadband. W/ a DIY unit, you can use whatever control strategy you'd like. Another good link to a PH amplifier. http://www.emesystems.com/OL2ph.htm

 

[BlindDate]

You are wrong sygh...From experience I can tell you that tight PH IS the best strategy.