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Are American and Canadian growers biased against Dutch breeders and seedbanks?
- Thread starter VerdantGreen
- Start date
making infirior seeds to simply supply a damand is ludicrass,,,
let´s talk pedigrees...
They are normally expensive to buy,, expensive to keep,, and take lots of hands-on experience to get them dialed in.. lol
I n I a reverted optimist,, so see Good and Bad (and Ugly) in most things.. for every negative action, there is a positive reaction. If ppl didnt breed in Europe,, then they'd be few seeds available overground state-side,, all praise n blessing to those breeders doin it state side (Chimera,, Rez if he's still there) all the pro. and underground seed makers doing the freebies (one love to Ic Donor crew!)
If this thread helps generate a fresh seed-scene over there,, full love to it
only as we see it most seed packs (not seeds) come from the EU zone right now,, and breeders this side are still struggling daily-bread,, against outdated laws.. in many different places,, to help make it happen.One Love
The production cost of a seed (i.e. growing 2 plants and making thousands of seeds) can be easily rounded to zero. This is the way nature works and it's great
What one earns by putting effort into breeding is not "ownership" over the genetic result (unless kept unshared). He earns dignity, which other people are free to evaluate however they want. Breeders better be modest in putting price to their efforts and make twice more people happy with their granted quality instead of sell half number of units on double price and blame questionable newcomers with low prices.
What one earns by putting effort into breeding is not "ownership" over the genetic result (unless kept unshared). He earns dignity, which other people are free to evaluate however they want. Breeders better be modest in putting price to their efforts and make twice more people happy with their granted quality instead of sell half number of units on double price and blame questionable newcomers with low prices.
Yo man
Many now recognised "pedigree" (dog) breeds,, (within the KC breed standard) where once viewed as "mongrel" breeds by many. Specifically the Doberman Pincher, most types of Bulldog, and many other working breeds.
The labour-doodle is yet to gain Kennel Club recognition,, but in time ,, with selective breeding,, there's little doubt that this Labrador x Poodle cross will not become a fully recognised "pedigree" (dog) breed. Just like plants do...
It's a pity the ganja community dont abide by the same grace as the responsible dog community.. saying that these threads would be a whole lot shorter if they did.
peace n flowers
n.b sorry it's easier for us to chat dogs than plants in analogy
The production cost of a seed (i.e. growing 2 plants and making thousands of seeds) can be easily rounded to zero. This is the way nature works and it's great
What one earns by putting effort into breeding is not "ownership" over the genetic result (unless kept unshared). He earns dignity, which other people are free to evaluate however they want. Breeders better be modest in putting price to their efforts and make twice more people happy with their granted quality instead of sell half number of units on double price and blame questionable newcomers with low prices.
Wrong!
Firstly, just 2 plants isn't giving you a very wide choice to find that killer strain is it. Natures way is loads of plants mating with loads more plants, very unlikely to be just two. Also it can't be rounded down to zero when you involve humans, unless your scattering some seeds when going on a walk anyway and then in 3 months just happen to be going past same area and pick some seeds up, then saying "hey here you go lads a new strain" 
I don't breed, yet, but I'm guessing you'll need to check those plants everyday for pests and diseases, to ween out the hermies and give preference to certain plants ie. choose your favourites, study and take detailed notes on their behaviour to help with future breeds, maintenance and others grow them. Then you need to do all this again and again until you have the strain you were after (or a better one) stable and ready for others to grow the plant that they were expecting to grow. This take TIME and effort. Not to mention the extra research you'll be putting into get that killer strain to work in certain climates, conditions, indoors, height, strength, testing for certain highs etc. And unless you are rich, your TIME needs to be paid for so that you can buy food and shelter, maybe you want to just send them a tin of beans and an umbrella instead?
If you are growing indoors for whatever reason, then the costs amount to even more for obvious reasons, and even outside you'll need to rent/own some land. For all those out there that are giving away free seeds from new strains, much respect! Some people are more fortunate than others. I guess it depends if breeding for seeds is a hobby or your full time job. Either way I believe after all that you should "own" that strain, unless someone can prove finding it occuring naturally in nature. If someone else crosses the same plants they won't be eactly the same anyway.
I have no quarms in paying for seeds as long as they are of decent quality, heck you can clone them anyway so you only need to buy them once and hand them out to all your mates and swap them etc.
p.s. Has anyone tried CROPPI CANNA seeds first hand?? Are thy any good??
tribe, I agree with most of what you said and I don't see how it makes my post "Wrong".
My point was that ->once you get good genetics, and it's not so hard nowadays (cut or seed)<- the production cost of ONE seed can be easily rounded to zero (read, is at most 20 cents). And this business scales very well (read, the more you produce, the cheaper it is). I'm talking about production cost, not what one wants to earn from it.
That's why you see so many "breeders" (sellers of seeds) - the money is easy!
Now, of course I too think that people who have put effort (read, + time, money, risk or whatever) into improving our common plants deserve reward. All I said is that I feel they should be more modest in the prices and this will be of interest both to them and their customers.
And I'm judging from personal point of view, as a customer who lives in a country where $150 are a bit too much and the customs are a bit too curious and tight. And I've grown enough seeded plants to know how much a single seed costs to be produced, even by an american.
My point was that ->once you get good genetics, and it's not so hard nowadays (cut or seed)<- the production cost of ONE seed can be easily rounded to zero (read, is at most 20 cents). And this business scales very well (read, the more you produce, the cheaper it is). I'm talking about production cost, not what one wants to earn from it.
That's why you see so many "breeders" (sellers of seeds) - the money is easy!
Now, of course I too think that people who have put effort (read, + time, money, risk or whatever) into improving our common plants deserve reward. All I said is that I feel they should be more modest in the prices and this will be of interest both to them and their customers.
And I'm judging from personal point of view, as a customer who lives in a country where $150 are a bit too much and the customs are a bit too curious and tight. And I've grown enough seeded plants to know how much a single seed costs to be produced, even by an american.
Ahhh, I misread, I thought you were talking about the actual breeding of new genetics, not just getting someone's "ready-made" genetics and producing kilos of seeds. That on the other hand is what we call easy money. But I wonder how long a new strain could warrant a decent price to recoup intial costs of yrs(?) of development and then be reduced to a more modest price? But unless every seedbank agrees to a standard cost, they'll be a large flux in price merely as a marketing tool, as well as other reasons. Some people want to pay more as they think its better for example. Difficult to know if the price is right for any seed without trying it for yourself beforehand. $150 is a bit much, but there are plenty cheaper. I've seen some for £250, so thats about $350! A bit crazy to say the least. I know its not always possible, but if you ahve friends that grow could chip in together for a bag of seeds. And like I said before its only a one off cost. Cheaper than a HID or fan and scrubber etc, but surely the most important part of any grow... Personally I'm just hoping seedbanks start selling 1-packs more, as really thats all we need, then just clone if we like them. Much cheaper and then we can spend the spare cash on trying out new strains instead
Dutch breeders just aren't putting out the quality that Americans are.
Rez, D-N-A, Cali Connect, BOG, Head, Chimera and DJ are killing in.
Plus, it seems that Ductch breeders are becoming less involved in the on line scene.
I mean where is Simon, Soma, Shanti, Paradise, Sensi owners? These guys don't even visit their forums.
Rez, BOG, DNA, Cali Connect all visit their forums and help members with grow logs and tips.
Dutch people just outsource and lay low.
Im all about American breeders. Canada has to step its game up. When Emery was around we had lots, now half are gone.
Rez, D-N-A, Cali Connect, BOG, Head, Chimera and DJ are killing in.
Plus, it seems that Ductch breeders are becoming less involved in the on line scene.
I mean where is Simon, Soma, Shanti, Paradise, Sensi owners? These guys don't even visit their forums.
Rez, BOG, DNA, Cali Connect all visit their forums and help members with grow logs and tips.
Dutch people just outsource and lay low.
Im all about American breeders. Canada has to step its game up. When Emery was around we had lots, now half are gone.
D
Dalaihempy
what a load of complete steaming dog shit to harsh maybe but this we Americans do it better drum has been beaten to death understand this Americans did breed as did Australians Mexicans and many more people cultures around the world.
There were many cultures smoking growing breeding cannabis before the USA was even a nation reality.
sk came from the us do you guys know that when sk was first being imported here i thort it was ok at best the local lines here that were grown was much better nothing was native to this country but ether was it to the us the Asian lines African columbine afghan and many more growing here were true breeding pure lines that we all took for granted the first time i grew dutch lines i thort they were complete shit on top of that we grew large crops for the us markets as did other places so be humble and realistic for a change.
Every one i knew that traveled to Europe could not weight to get home as they could only find hash to smoke and slowly the dutch lines started to pop up more and more as people wanted faster plants with huge flowers well 25 years later what have we got.
I will tell you what we have we have Frankenstein seeds (fem seeds) flooding the market we have kids preaching the gospel of how it was back then in the cannabis sean when they were not even born and how all genetics were American and the rest of the world contributed shit .
Well 30 years later finding a good quality Thia line Hawaiian sativa columbine sat or a good African sativa or Jamaican sativa and so on is like finding a unicorn they have become mythical now.
Most dutch and Spanish and even Swiss breeders use the same clones or genetics that were selected many years ago re naming the same lines re combining the same genetics few breeders working to improve or offer new lines.
But i can tell you with research and effort on your part as a grower you can find special genetics that are as good as the old school lines and im sure there are lots still with in the us but i would be looking for the old growers most are growing dutch and re naming them look at the kush bull shit classic example the elite clone syndrome to funny all magical and mystical yet seeds found in bags of mj that in all possibility came from dutch genetics re named.
If i was to thank the us for any thing that would be thank you for making this plant Elegal and thank you for the chemical eradication programs in Asia and south America thank you for the heroin explosion and thank you for the on going persecution of cannabis smokers with in the us and around the world thank you very much.
I have a lot of respect for any person with the same values as me i have zero respect for any person that thinks he or she coming from a given country is better than the rest of us shove that up ur ass and sit on it a decade or to and think about it a while one race human race and the cannabis plant was not created in the us or was every good hybrid.
mexicangreen420
Member
just like old blue eyes said it:
love and marriage, love and marriage.... you can't have one without the other...... oh love and marriage....
Without Dutch breeders ORIGINALLY "spreading the seed" way back when. Where would we be now?
love and marriage, love and marriage.... you can't have one without the other...... oh love and marriage....
Without Dutch breeders ORIGINALLY "spreading the seed" way back when. Where would we be now?
OH SNAP LOL LOL
OH SNAP LOL LOL
ah yeah lol
I look at seeds and special genetics the same way I would look at finding a really good dog. You find them but once in awhile you find that really exceptional dog that stands out . It doesn't belong to anyone and never did lol your just lucky enough to have found it and work with it. All this it came from our country shit is just that shit lol peace out Headband707
OH SNAP LOL LOL
ah yeah lol
I look at seeds and special genetics the same way I would look at finding a really good dog. You find them but once in awhile you find that really exceptional dog that stands out . It doesn't belong to anyone and never did lol your just lucky enough to have found it and work with it. All this it came from our country shit is just that shit lol peace out Headband707
D
Dalaihempy
you are comparing tomatoes to oranges.
dutch peple smoke weed with tobacco, what kind of cannassuer is that. i spent a year there, and the weed was very good, but not like the weed in canada/us. holland still has alot of breeders from around the world, but who wants to smoke, grow or buy jiucy fruit from sensi seeds, or the bastardised pure from tfd, or chronic from serious or himalayan gold from ghs.
ive acquired a ha og kush, a pk from 3 years ago and a sour diesel this year that blew away any beans ive bought or smoked in amsterdam. i have friends going there all the time, and all that is great is you have menus with many kinds of bud and hash. i gaurantee if a dutchman went to (or european for that matter) came to bc or cali especially and smoked some pineapple kush or og kush or real skunk weed, they would have an experience of an altered stae of reality, and call an ambulance(tobaccoless joints).
europeans (mostly) like to smoke and relax with there spliffs. i like to smoke up to an ounce a day of boombastic elite weed to get fucked up to help my pain and brain.
when i was in holland , they thought i would die smoking a 1 gram joint of white widow with no tobacco hahahaha lol.
cali and much of the west coast of n america even down to mexico have the bomb.
remember, the west is a sellers market, so quality riegns supreme. if you got dutch weed, the value is less then elite cuts . and, where did all the strains come from in the 80"s to holland. thai, mexican, hawaiian, afghani, indian, paki, asian and african kind seeds all came to cali in the bud. then went to holland mostly to be worked on, as such today.
keep things in perspective, dont let that tobacco fool you hahaha lol
og kush is one of my all time faves, and will annihilate anyone without experience in smoking real weed without carcinogens.
bog gear will kill 95% of all of ssb, tfd, ss, ths for medical quality, which really is all that matters for people who grow for the purpose of smoking, as it was meant for, or eating etc, d
dutch peple smoke weed with tobacco, what kind of cannassuer is that. i spent a year there, and the weed was very good, but not like the weed in canada/us. holland still has alot of breeders from around the world, but who wants to smoke, grow or buy jiucy fruit from sensi seeds, or the bastardised pure from tfd, or chronic from serious or himalayan gold from ghs.
ive acquired a ha og kush, a pk from 3 years ago and a sour diesel this year that blew away any beans ive bought or smoked in amsterdam. i have friends going there all the time, and all that is great is you have menus with many kinds of bud and hash. i gaurantee if a dutchman went to (or european for that matter) came to bc or cali especially and smoked some pineapple kush or og kush or real skunk weed, they would have an experience of an altered stae of reality, and call an ambulance(tobaccoless joints).
europeans (mostly) like to smoke and relax with there spliffs. i like to smoke up to an ounce a day of boombastic elite weed to get fucked up to help my pain and brain.
when i was in holland , they thought i would die smoking a 1 gram joint of white widow with no tobacco hahahaha lol.
cali and much of the west coast of n america even down to mexico have the bomb.
remember, the west is a sellers market, so quality riegns supreme. if you got dutch weed, the value is less then elite cuts . and, where did all the strains come from in the 80"s to holland. thai, mexican, hawaiian, afghani, indian, paki, asian and african kind seeds all came to cali in the bud. then went to holland mostly to be worked on, as such today.
keep things in perspective, dont let that tobacco fool you hahaha lol
og kush is one of my all time faves, and will annihilate anyone without experience in smoking real weed without carcinogens.
bog gear will kill 95% of all of ssb, tfd, ss, ths for medical quality, which really is all that matters for people who grow for the purpose of smoking, as it was meant for, or eating etc, d
E
elmanito
Not all of them.
From one of the Thai varieties which are available in the underground you don't need to smoke up till an ounce to get fucked up and probably you will end up in a hospital for an OD.
Namaste
komrade komura
Active member
An american living in Europe, my choice of seeds is a decision based on various criteria, which can change with each grow.
One of the important criteria is the experience of others with a particular seedbank/genetics.
Raised in Australia so I was never programmed with American superiority or that 'my country right or wrong' crap. Parent tried.
But when you get beaten up by the other kids just for being different...the Pax Americana clone does not root.
Do I really need to display a bias towards or against a particular geograpgic source of seeds?
The only thing bias causes is a gaurantee of suboptimal decision making and outcome.
I don't give a fuck where Serious Seeds is located...they got AK47. Same with REZ, Mr. Nice, and DJ....they got their shit, I want their shit.
We are cannabis growers and smokers...outlaws in most places.
Since we disobey the laws in our location, this makes us first and foremost citizens of the cannabis community.
Besides, this country shit is just another way of dividing us up, controlling us and getting us to eventually kill each other for finite resources or a long list of other equally stupid reasons.
GO WHERE I WANT....GROW WHERE I WANT.
Long Live the American-Canadian-Dutch-Australian-Colombian-Mexican-Thai-African-English-Spanish-Czech cannabis community...the group that doesn't care where I am from, only how I can contribute and how it can help me in return.
One of the important criteria is the experience of others with a particular seedbank/genetics.
Raised in Australia so I was never programmed with American superiority or that 'my country right or wrong' crap. Parent tried.
But when you get beaten up by the other kids just for being different...the Pax Americana clone does not root.
Do I really need to display a bias towards or against a particular geograpgic source of seeds?
The only thing bias causes is a gaurantee of suboptimal decision making and outcome.
I don't give a fuck where Serious Seeds is located...they got AK47. Same with REZ, Mr. Nice, and DJ....they got their shit, I want their shit.
We are cannabis growers and smokers...outlaws in most places.
Since we disobey the laws in our location, this makes us first and foremost citizens of the cannabis community.
Besides, this country shit is just another way of dividing us up, controlling us and getting us to eventually kill each other for finite resources or a long list of other equally stupid reasons.
GO WHERE I WANT....GROW WHERE I WANT.
Long Live the American-Canadian-Dutch-Australian-Colombian-Mexican-Thai-African-English-Spanish-Czech cannabis community...the group that doesn't care where I am from, only how I can contribute and how it can help me in return.
i can take 10 tokes of allmost any weed i smoke and be smashed,,,,
