any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom

[rives]

did either of you guys notice any def's with lower ec's ? say 1.2 to reves 1.5 ? i have always found less is more with traditional nutes, anything over 900 ppm's is just wasting nutes with most nutes, why is the veg and bloom different ?

Joesy, I think that if you check V+B's online instructions, they are very close to what you are talking about for all mediums except rockwool. Their recommendations were a little light for my first run (Purple Crack) during vegging, and I knew that the variety that I've got going now were heavier feeders than the PC girls, so I hit them a little more heavily. Haven't seen any burn or any deficiencies, they just look happy as hell to me.

*edit* Joesy, another thought just struck me - you mention ppm's and EC together almost as though they are interchangeable. What scale do you use?

 

[Tyga]

@ 650PPM I was seeing deficiencies all over the place in pretty early veg.. bumped up to around 825PPM and they returned to the lush green color thanks to Ekomsi's recommendation to bump up to around 5.5G per gal.

 

[g0dzilla]

did either of you guys notice any def's with lower ec's ? say 1.2 to reves 1.5 ? i have always found less is more with traditional nutes, anything over 900 ppm's is just wasting nutes with most nutes, why is the veg and bloom different ?

Joesy fwiw I'm hitting week 4 tomorrow using around 840ppm with ro and ro formula and i have no deficiency to report everything looks great. Not sure anything higher then 1.6 ec is worth it. Like you said could just be a waste. Are you giving vb a run what do you think so far?

 

[g0dzilla]

@ 650PPM I was seeing deficiencies all over the place in pretty early veg.. bumped up to around 825PPM and they returned to the lush green color thanks to Ekomsi's recommendation to bump up to around 5.5G per gal.

What is your conversion rate. Reporting in ec is best not all ppm meters use the same conversion rate

 

[Tyga]

What is your conversion rate. Reporting in ec is best not all ppm meters use the same conversion rate

.5 conversion so a little over 1.6EC

 

[dansbuds]

@ 650PPM I was seeing deficiencies all over the place in pretty early veg.. bumped up to around 825PPM and they returned to the lush green color thanks to Ekomsi's recommendation to bump up to around 5.5G per gal.

wow tyga .... that seems like alot of feed for veg .
I'm curious as to why a few people are having to use so much more than others to get the same results . Tyga what formula are you using ? hard water or RO ? same question for water ... tap or RO ?


I'm @ a .5 conversion .... so i'll start using the EC numbers to make it clear .

 

[Tyga]

wow tyga .... that seems like alot of feed for veg .



I'm @ a .5 conversion .... so i'll start using the EC numbers to make it clear .

Haha tell me about it man I was thinking the same thing! I was following your feed schedule but I was seeing defficiencys so I guess the strains I have are heavy feeders because they turned back to a nice green color once I upped the feeding.

 

[dansbuds]

theres got to be a big difference in our waters or something to have that much of a difference in feeds .

 

[ekomsi]

Well I'm glad this thread turned back to veg bloom discussion, TYGa I'm glad I could help. Happy growing everyone.

 

[jayjayfrank]

about a month now and half way thru my 1lb tub. i dont use more than 5g/gal in 100ppm tapwater, hard water formula dissolves quickly. i suspect something with how many people say they have a hard time mixing, or fallout, or using more than 5 grams. maybe quality control or unexpectedly hard water or the fact that the formula seems to be changing around? but with a hand full of people reporting of having to use 5 plus grams and it dissolving very poorly you wonder whats going on. also, these differences could be completely contributed to how one garden is ran different than another.

 

[Grizz]

Joesy fwiw I'm hitting week 4 tomorrow using around 840ppm with ro and ro formula and i have no deficiency to report everything looks great. Not sure anything higher then 1.6 ec is worth it. Like you said could just be a waste. Are you giving vb a run what do you think so far?

im debating on getting enough to do a run with it, the sample isent enough to do me much good, begging info from you guys before i spend the money

 

[green thumbs]

Would Maxigrow 10-5-14 have the same ratio as Veg + Bloom 16-10-30

 

[g0dzilla]

Would Maxigrow 10-5-14 have the same ratio as Veg + Bloom 16-10-30

I think you just answered your own question but they are different ratios

 

[green thumbs]

I think you just answered your own question but they are different ratios

Maybe not the exact same ratio but pretty close to where the plant wouldnt be able to tell the difference i think. Can some correct me if im wrong on my math. This is ratio's not not npk's.. Will someone way more knowledgeable plz chime in.

MaxiGrow 2-1-2.8
V+B 1.6-1-3

 

[g0dzilla]

Maybe not the exact same ratio but pretty close to where the plant wouldnt be able to tell the difference i think. Can some correct me if im wrong on my math. This is ratio's not not npk's.. Will someone way more knowledgeable plz chime in.

MaxiGrow 2-1-2.8
V+B 1.6-1-3

come again?? what other ratio are you talking about? I do know that using maxigrow for a bloom cycle is a bad idea.. Maxibloom is used in the K.I.S.S. method.. and yes the ratios are different..


"The three numbers that you see on a fertilizer label, such as 5-5-5, tell you what proportion of each macronutrient the fertilizer contains. The first number is always nitrogen (N), the second is phosphorus (P) and the third is potassium (K). This "N-P-K" ratio reflects the available nutrients —by weight—contained in that fertilizer. For example, if a 100-pound bag of fertilizer has an N-P-K ratio of 5-7-4, it contains 5 pounds of nitrate, 7 pounds of phosphate (which contains phosphorous), 4 pounds of potash (which contains potassium) and 84 pounds of filler. "

 

[rives]

Maybe not the exact same ratio but pretty close to where the plant wouldnt be able to tell the difference i think. Can some correct me if im wrong on my math. This is ratio's not not npk's.. Will someone way more knowledgeable plz chime in.

MaxiGrow 2-1-2.8
V+B 1.6-1-3

Pretty close, but I would think that the N in Maxi being 125% of V+B would be a significant difference.

 

[rives]

come again?? what other ratio are you talking about? I do know that using maxigrow for a bloom cycle is a bad idea.. Maxibloom is used in the K.I.S.S. method.. and yes the ratios are different..

He factored the percentages down to their lowest common denominator for direct comparison. V+B is stronger, but they are pretty similar in N-P-K composition. For example, if you take a fertilizer that has a 3-1-2 ratio and another that has 15-5-10, they have the same ratios of NPK but the second fertilizer is three times as strong.

 

[green thumbs]

He factored the percentages down to their lowest common denominator for direct comparison. V+B is stronger, but they are pretty similar in composition.

Thanks rives

 

[tenthirty]

There is quite a little science/art to mixing ferts.

The readers digest version.
Ph is managed through positive and negative charges in the molecules.

Fertilizer is not just mixing the base elements and wala! you have something you can feed your girls. Just go and get some pure phosphorus and play with it a little, you will find that it is very reactive.

Most of the elements in any given fert are combined with other elements to make them stable. These all have a given charge, or PH if you will. Some compounds and mixtures are more hydro friendly and some are more soil friendly.

IMHO, based on my experience, V&B is just as stable as Dyna-Grow.
If I had to draw a line, I would have to say that V&B is more hydro friendly, but it is slightly less buffered than Dyna-Grow.

These are the only 2 companies that I have run into that have.
A) such a stable PH product.
B) are both a single part fert.

Occam's razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Looks to me, like it's not the easiest thing in the world to make good ferts.
I talked to the guy there for probably 45 minutes and he could get over my head quite quickly. Nice guy though.

The stated values on the label are not absolute, different compounds have different availabilities to the plant.
So your kind of mixing apples with oranges. The ratios are not the same and I'm sure the compounds are different.

 

[rives]

Tenthirty, by "I talked to the guy there", do you mean Chris at Hydroponic Research? If so, I haven't spoken with him, but have had extensive email exchanges with him. He does seem to be a nice guy, as well as both knowledgeable and patient.

Ah, you edited your post. I would agree that they are probably very different. There has been much discussion throughout the thread about the other things in V+B, which unfortunately don't all make it onto the label. Additionally, for an example, there are several different types of nitrogen which can be included in a fertilizer that have vastly different properties. However, as far as the label goes, they are all aggregated together under "N".