Another school shooting

[Bird of Hermes]

This is very true. Good article.

The company line is brought to you by the NRA who really works for the gun manufacturers. Arming teachers or armed school security guards sells more guns for them. Fear sells more guns too. They tell people that any type of regulation or background checks are taking away 2nd amendment rights. In fact law abiding citizens should have no worries about showing their credentials fo gun ownership. Some sort of regulation actually helps assure that all guns will not be taken away from people responsible enough to own them in the future.

I second this I never get why some people are so defense about registering their guns. My .44mag was registered and when I built my own ar I had the lower receiver registered too. I've been confronted by colorado sheriffs on my land in the past and if my guns weren't registered I would've been in deep shit i bet. And by confronted I don't mean violently or nothing haha they just wanted to make sure I wasn't poaching. My lands near the pikes peak national forest so anytime they see people carrying they check em out. My property is pretty remote so I carry in case of cougars or bears I've found kill sites before so I know they're around. After discerning that I wasn't up to no good I asked him if I was being paranoid and he said no they have a healthy predator population and he wouldn't be running around up there unarmed either.

Makes sense to have stuff registered to save you trouble if Leo ever has to check you out.

 

[Pinnate]

... do you really believe this school shooter should not be put down?

No one should deserve to be 'put down' for what really amounts to a moment of madness...


The maximum penalty the state can hand out must be life without parole ─ vengeance is never anything but a failure of basic humanity...

 

[Bird of Hermes]

I don't know if this was just a moment of madness the fake bombs he made suggest premeditation. One of his first victims was a girl that had repeatedly refused his aggressive advances in the past and he apparently taunted people as he shot them. I'm not trying to be the judge here though but after living in Texas for a long time I can almost guarantee you they will execute him. That's just the way they are when it comes to this kind of stuff. I try to have sympathy for all people but when you cross the line and snuff out the lives of others especially in a way as heinous as this kid did it runs out pretty quick. There are 10 families mourning the loss of their loved ones and they are the ones I think of when this stuff happens. That being said our societal and family structures need major work that's the only thing that's going to put a end to all this madness.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

There does come a point with being so humane that it can actually be dangerous.

If a dog, horse, big cat or some other animal was responsible for killing 10 innocent humans, and willfully in a premeditated way executed those victims (if that's possible)....most any society would have that animal destroyed.

 

[Pinnate]

There are 10 families mourning the loss of their loved ones and they are the ones I think of when this stuff happens.

And the state may soon decide that the shooter's family should be added to that list of mourning families ─ I can only ask why ─ what possible benefit will anyone derive from such a thing?

 

[Pinnate]

If a dog, horse, big cat or some other animal was responsible for killing 10 innocent humans, and willfully in a premeditated way executed those victims (if that's possible)....most any society would have that animal destroyed.

Are you not being a bit disingenuous here, Gypsy?


Animals kill in a premeditated way for food ─ and only for food ─ and acts of self-preservation should not incur the wrath of others...


And all such instances are predicated on the animal's ultimate wish for its own survival!

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I have known many cats that kill just for fun.....they first torment and maim their prey, and they sure ain't hungry, because I just fed them....lol

....then they bring the 'dead thing' in the house and drop it at your feet, as if to say 'What do you reckon about my latest murder?'...

Are you not being a bit disingenuous here, Gypsy?


Animals kill in a premeditated way for food ─ and only for food ─ and acts of self-preservation should not incur the wrath of others...


And all such instances are predicated on the animal's ultimate wish for its own survival!

 

[igrowone]

coincidently the animal killing person situation is on the news wire this am
cougar killed a mountain biker near Seattle yesterday, pretty grim
cougar was put down by wildlife officers shortly there after
i'd be hard put to imagine different procedures, though it is true the cougar was acting 'naturally'
very rare occurrence though

 

[Zeez]

The US is the only highly developed country that still has capital punishment. Our justice system has huge flaws and routinely convicts innocent people. And, our prison system has an opposite effect to rehabilitation. Worse yet, we are building private private prisons that make more money when they keep people longer and have been caught paying off judges and prosecutors. It's a mess. Killing people is a really bad idea.

 

[brown_thumb]

No one should deserve to be 'put down' for what really amounts to a moment of madness...


The maximum penalty the state can hand out must be life without parole ─ vengeance is never anything but a failure of basic humanity...

IMO, a life sentence in federal prison is less humane than a quick painless death.

 

[Pinnate]

I have known many cats that kill just for fun.....they first torment and maim their prey, and they sure ain't hungry, because I just fed them....lol

They're simply stocking up ─ I'm sure you do it too... lol


But humans are the only animals known to kill purely for 'sport'?

 

[CaptainDankness]

And the state may soon decide that the shooter's family should be added to that list of mourning families ─ I can only ask why ─ what possible benefit will anyone derive from such a thing?

If one of my family members did something like that I'd kill them myself. I certainly wouldn't be visiting them in prison, I'd mourn the people he killed for no reason, not the family member.

I honestly can't think of anything worse than my child doing something that bad. As for benefits, well one less (unjustifiable) murderer in the world sounds good to me.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

They're simply stocking up ─ I'm sure you do it too... lol


But humans are the only animals known to kill purely for 'sport'?

SPORT
[spawrt, spohrt]

noun
1.
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

I've seen animals racing, wrestling, boxing, hunting and fishing, and these are sports......and yes I have seen animals killing not just for food, but for sport/entertainment......or because they felt threatened, or wanted to threaten others...etc...

Here are 14 different animals that don't just kill for food...

It's often said that man is the only animal who kills for fun, but that's actually not true. Animals that thrill kill are actually pretty common; scientists call it "surplus killing." Animals that kill for no reason range from mammals to reptiles, and even insects in some rare cases. So, which animals kill for sport, and how do they do it? The subject is just as fascinating as it is horrifying.

Over centuries of study, scientists have found animals use tools like humans, animals use disguises like humans, and now we know that they sometimes kill for fun like humans, too. By fun, we mean they don't do it over territorial disputes, in self-defense, to get food, or to move up in the pack hierarchy. These animals kill for apparently no reason whatsoever. And here's a little spoiler: some of them might be living in your house right now.

Bottlenose Dolphins Enjoy Causing Other Animals' Painful Deaths

Bottlenose Dolphins Enjoy Causing other animals Painful Deaths is listed (or ranked) 1 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun

Everyone knows that dolphins are very smart animals, and that they can be trained to do a whole bunch of tricks and tasks. What you might not be aware of is the fact that dolphins can also be vicious killers.

Back in 1997, a bunch of dead porpoises washed up in the coast of Scotland and in Virginia, as well. When biologists studied the bodies it was revealed that the porpoises had died of broken ribs, ruptured livers, and punctured lungs, and they were bruised all over their bodies. With more research, scientists found bite marks that pointed to attacks from bottlenose dolphins.

The weirdest thing about this is that porpoises do not attack, harm, or generally mess with dolphins. And dolphins have no reason to attack or eat porpoises. Also, the method of killing was a slow, precise, and focused one. If the dolphins had wanted to cause fatal harm, they had the ability to do so much more quickly. The only explanation that remained for scientists is that the dolphins had killed the porpoises for no real reason at all, and that they had prolonged the death just for fun.

Your Housecat Is a Thrill Killer

Your Housecat Is a Thrill Kill... is listed (or ranked) 2 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun

When you see your house cat playing with a toy, you probably think something like "aw, how cute!" Well, as cute as that may be, your cat is actually showing signs of killing for sport, even by playing with a simple toy. The kicking it does with its back feet is actually a move to disembowel prey, and that adorable little pounce is meant to pin an animal down. When it tosses its toy around? It's actually a method for breaking a small animal's neck.

Every year, cats are responsible for the deaths of billions of animals, most of which are never even eaten, so why do they do it? Well, they do it because they find enjoyment in the hunt and in the kill. They like chasing things, they like having live prey, and they like killing more than they like eating. This can be so devastating for wild bird and rodent populations that some countries (such as New Zealand) even are pushing to ban cats as pets!

A Single Fox Killed 74 Animals in Just Three Days

A Single Fox Killed 74 Animals... is listed (or ranked) 3 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun

Foxes are known for being very clever animals, and also for being agile hunters. For the most part, foxes have to scrape and search for food, especially during cold winters. However, in Australia, the winters aren't generally cold or harsh, and foxes end up being one of the most harmful invasive species the country has.

Foxes have shown on multiple occasions that they are not above surplus killing. They have killed tens of wallabies in a single night without eating a single one. They have attacked chicken coops and then eaten only one or two of the dead birds. In one particularly horrifying incident in 1994, about 1800 little penguins had come ashore to lay their eggs on Granite Island in South Australia. Things were going fine until a fox managed to get onto the island by means of a causeway. Over the course of the next three days, the fox killed 74 penguins, only eating a few. It seems the rest of them were just killed for grins, then left there to rot.

Leopards Regularly Kill for Fun, Sometimes with Hundreds of Victims

Leopards Regularly Kill for Fu... is listed (or ranked) 4 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun

Leopards are a serious problem for farmers in South Africa, but in Cape Province it can get particularly bad. It seems that, unlike many other animals, leopards will participate in surplus killing regularly, and just leave the slaughtered, uneaten animals in the field. In fact, out of 104 recorded incidences of a leopard killing livestock, well over half involved surplus killing and uneaten remains. And we're not just talking one or two animals every time, either. In the worst incident in 1986, it was recorded that a leopard killed 51 sheep and lambs in a single incident. Obviously these animals were not killed for food or for territorial purposes, so it stands to reason that they were slaughtered just for the thrill.

Hyenas Kill and Maim a Ton of Animals Just Because They Can

Hyenas Kill and Maim a Ton of is listed (or ranked) 5 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun

In 1966, a researcher by the name of Hans Kruuk went to study the Serengeti Plains of Tanzania. While he was there, he witnessed a horrifying slaughter on one stormy and moonless night. A small group of spotted hyenas went on a strange killing spree of gazelles the likes of which has rarely been seen. They killed a total of 82 gazelle, far more than the group could eat, and badly injured 27 more, just leaving them there to die slowly. As Kruuk looked into the incident, he found that:

Of a sample of 59 dead ones, 13 had been partially eaten (almost only soft parts)... Tracks indicated that spotted hyenas had walked very quietly from one victim to the next at a normal walking pace... When gazelle are hunted by hyenas in the usual manner, there is a long and fast chase before the gazelle is caught, over distances of up to 5 km.

Given this unusual behavior, it seems that the hyenas went around killing these animals for no reason other than the fact that they could. The animals were not even dragged away to be meals for later.

Gorillas Have Been Known to Commit Infanticide Out of Jealousy

Gorillas Have Been Known to Co is listed (or ranked) 6 on the list Vicious Animals That Kill Just for Fun.

Jealousy has driven many humans to kill, and that motivation seems to cross over to gorillas as well. If a male gorilla wishes to get a female for himself, and she has a kid, he begins to show signs of jealousy. He shows off, he becomes aggressive, and then he eventually lashes out at the object of the mother's attention: the baby. Silverback gorillas, in particular, have demonstrated harmful behavior to babies, both in the wild and in captivity.

In one very sad incident in 2011, the London Zoo lost their seven-month-old baby gorilla because of a male's jealousy. A new silverback was introduced to an enclosure, and things seemed to go alright at first. Then he started acting jealous, and one of the babies was killed in the ensuing scuffle. To be fair, jealousy isn't exactly killing for no reason, but it's a reason not usually seen outside of the human world.

In 1898, the people of Tsavo, Kenya, were terrorized by a pair of young lions that began hunting a surprising number of humans. They killed at least 28 people in a ten-month period, and possibly as many as 135. It started with railway workers, and people found that the humans killed were not always eaten, but instead left out as though to send a grisly message. They called in one man, John H. Patterson, who was able to kill both the animals and put an end to their killing spree.

But the mystery remains: why were the lions killing people? Lions don't tend to hunt humans, as we're not exactly the most filling or meaty creatures. One possibility is that the lions killed simply for sport. A look at their stomachs showed they ate a wide range of creatures, as if they were trying to sample many different flavors. Some suggest that thinning herds in the area or territory disputes lead to the lions killing, but the manner in which they hunted still suggests that there was some level of play in the way they killed humans.

Chimps Eat Each Other as Part of Territorial Wars

Chimps Eat Each Other as Part is listed (or ranked) 8 on the list

Chimps are an incredibly intelligent species, and they have a fascinating group dynamic. That being said, they're also terrifyingly effective killers. They even participate in war, and it's not always over territory or food. Yes, you read that correctly: chimps participate in war. And what do they do when they kill another chimp? Sometimes they'll eat them.

That seems like no big deal, right? Animals eat each other all the time. Well, the weird thing with chimps is that they don't generally eat very much meat in their diets, and they don't kill or eat their enemies quickly. When chimps kill each other, they usually hold one male down, then bite and beat him to death little by little. They could do it faster, but they seem to wait for it to be a slow and painful death. On top of that, any babies they catch are eaten, too. While this killing may free up more resources and have dominance purposes, the way they torture and eat the victims indicates some level of fun or enjoyment. What goes on in these animals' heads, though, we may never know.

Lions Kill Doves Just Because It's Difficult

Lions Kill Doves Just Because is listed (or ranked) 9 on the list

We already mentioned lions on this list, but that was a very specific pair that targeted humans. In general, however, lions kill small animals just for the chase and enjoyment. Biologists have witnessed lions playing with rodents, like house cats, both in youth and in adulthood. This chase could be explained as a hungry animal going after any food possible, but that doesn't stand up to criticism when the animal already has food nearby.

Take the example of a group of lionesses one biologist witnessed in Botswana. The lionesses were feasting on an elephant carcass, when one of the lions spotted a group of doves. As if bitten by the hunting bug, the lion went over and began to chase the birds, even catching one and killing it. The other lionesses followed suit, jumping and playing with the birds as they tried to fly away. They quickly got bored, but the fact remains that they were full and did not need to kill the doves. They did it simply because it was fun.

Stoats Regularly Participate in Surplus Killing

Stoats Regularly Participate is listed (or ranked) 10 on the list

You not be familiar with stoats, so let's just say that they're a small, weasel-like creature with one hell of a mean streak. They are able to kill animals far larger than they are, and will do so to protect their turf, defend themselves, or just to eat. But sometimes, they do it for no reason at all.

If a stoat gets into a hen house, for example, they may kill every chicken they see, even if they have no intent of eating most of them. They will simply bite the neck to kill one, then move on to the next. They seem to have an instinct to kill everything they see once they are in kill mode. It doesn't matter if they need the meat, they'll just do it anyway. They do sometimes store extra food for later, but never all of what they thrill kill.

Honey Badgers Are Just Angry and Deadly

Honey Badgers Are Just Angry a is listed (or ranked) 11 on the list

For anyone who has never seen this particular meme, honey badgers are kind of terrifying. They have thick skin, they show no fear, and they eat such frightening creatures as cobras without suffering any real harm. They're also incredibly smart and they're escape artists when it comes to zoos. With that in mind, it may be terrifying to know that sometimes these beasts kill for no reason.

In particular, honey badgers love to kill birds. They can destroy chicken coops, go through entire flocks of ducks, and basically kill everything with feathers nearby. Much of the time, they won't even eat the birds they kill or store them. This surplus killing can go to extreme levels as long as the honey badger is enjoying himself. In one incident, a single honey badger killed 17 Muscovy ducks and 36 chickens, eating nearly none of them. When it comes to killing in moderation, honey badger honestly don't care.


Teenage Elephants Slaughter Rhinos Around a Watering Hole

Teenage Elephants Slaughter Rh is listed (or ranked) 12 on the list

Elephants are often seen as gentle giants, but they sure can pack a punch if they're angry. People have been trampled by raging elephants, and young elephants have been seen playing with snakes or lizards to the point where they die, even if the little ones don't realize what they're doing. But on occasion, elephants kill seemingly without any purpose, and one recent event proves that.

In 1994, Pilanesberg officials began to find the bodies of rhinos near watering holes, slaughtered without apparent reason or cause. After some research and observation, they found that the rhinos were not being killed by poachers, but instead by elephants. The teenage elephants would attack rhinos, kill them together, then run off and leave the bodies there. Killings continued, up to ten in a three-month span, and eventually the elephants had to be culled.

We were left to wonder why they had targeted rhinos. As far as we can tell, the elephants had no adults around to keep them in check, and the youngsters liked testing out their strength on another large animal that was not an elephant. Thankfully, this sort of thing is not common for elephants, both captive and in the wild.

Wolves May or May Not Kill for Sport

Wolves May or May Not Kill for is listed (or ranked) 13 on the list

This one is hotly debated, even to this day. Surplus killing has long been witnessed in wolf packs, and killing of pack members has been seen as a method of changing up the pecking order. But on occasion, wolf packs will just go on a killing spree.

In one case in 2016, a pack of nine individuals brought down 19 elk in a single night, leaving most of the bodies to rot. Why would they do this, especially in winter, if they didn't need to eat? Some people may say they do so for sport or fun, but the fact is that wolves may kill like this in some misguided effort to save food for later. It may also be that the spirit of the hunt gets into their blood, and they instinctively just kill and kill without noticing how many animals are dead. In the end, they'll have killed extra animals for no reason, even if they're not exactly killing for enjoyment.

Of course, the idea that wolves are bloodthirsty animals who just love to kill is a dangerous one. They're a species that is quickly becoming rare in certain parts, and it's worth noting that surplus killings are rare, whatever the reason, so killing wolves out of fear is not the way to go.

Two Caracal Decide Killing sheep is fun.

You may not be surprised to see that many animals on this list are some form of cat, and the caracal is yet another example. In Cape Province, South Africa, caracal have been known to participate in surplus killing, sometimes eating next to none of the animals they bring down. In other words, they kill for pretty much no purpose other than for fun.

One example in 1979 really speaks to that. There were two caracal that hunted together and liked taking down livestock in the area. In one specific incident, they attacked and killed a total of 22 sheep together. How many of those did they eat? Not a single one. In fact, they only ate part of the buttocks of one sheep, not nearly enough to fill their stomachs. From all appearances, they killed the sheep just because they felt like killing that day.

Whether or not all these animals kill for fun or not, we cannot know for certain. But sometimes, at least from the outside, it seems that these animals kill for enjoyment or sport, just the way some humans do. We may someday discover the reasons behind surplus killing, but until then, take comfort in the fact that man is not the only animal who kills for thrills.


https://www.ranker.com/list/animals-that-kill-for-no-reason/laura-allan

 

[Pinnate]

Wow Gypsy, that's a lot for anyone to attempt to refute, and I don't have the time, right now, but suffice to say that we would like to see ourselves as being 'better than the lower animals' simply because we believe we possess consciences...

 

[theJointedOne]

GN the only prob with all that is we are under an assumption with that information...we cant talk to them, but humans have decided they think they know why the animals do it...not syaing its not true..but its assuming a lot. Maybe there are natural, instinctual reasons behind all those acts...i dunno



I really agree with this dudes comment though, except the feds are a bit easier than state prison. Life in a state prison, especially the kind killers go to, is easily hell on earth...so if you can confine them to a cell for years, i figure that way worse punishment that a quick trip to the other side..

IMO, a life sentence in federal prison is less humane than a quick painless death.

 

[Pinnate]

If one of my family members did something like that I'd kill them myself.

I honestly can't think of anything worse than my child doing something that bad.

Neither can I CD, because deliberately taking the life of another human being IS the very worst action any human can take...and NO possible circumstance can ever mitigate such an action...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

You see many animals seem to have similar or the same sort of murderous impulses that humans do...

We have mass school shootings....Gorillas pull baby Gorilla's apart....Teenage Elephants go on a stomping spree, Stoats do it for the 'Thrill Kill'.....etc, so humans don't have a monopoly on mindless murder.

To kill is a VERY animal impulse that most all of us posses and many use that impulse for the right or wrong reasons.....

We are supposed to have the ability to reason over animals, but the problem is that people don't seem to reason enough so the lines are blurred...some are still in that savage hunter/gatherer kill mode

....and there we are back to evolution.

 

[igrowone]

....and there we are back to evolution.

look at things from a 'game' perspective which is what evolution is(kind of)
what benefit to a animal that kills excessively?
if there is an excess of prey animals, what are the consequences?
for one thing, other predators can use those animals
which can lead to a larger population of competing predators in your neighborhood
evolutionary speaking, that's not to your benefit, your offspring will have more competition
trim down that excess population and conditions might be better for your genes to survive

 

[Pinnate]

You see many animals seem to have similar or the same sort of murderous impulses that humans do...

We have mass school shootings....Gorillas pull baby Gorilla's apart....Teenage Elephants go on a stomping spree, Stoats do it for the 'Thrill Kill'.....etc, so humans don't have a monopoly on mindless murder.

To kill is a VERY animal impulse that most all of us posses and many use that impulse for the right or wrong reasons.....

We are supposed to have the ability to reason over animals, but the problem is that people don't seem to reason enough so the lines are blurred...some are still in that savage hunter/gatherer kill mode.

'Specious argument Gypsy, and you know it...

 

[moose eater]

Wolves will kill a critter, eat a bit, sometimes more and sometimes less, then move on to the next kill, roving. Nomadic within a given area.

A friend who trapped them for a long time, saw evidence that they'd killed a moose, left, and a lynx came to the site, and fed (secondary predators/scavengers benefit from wolf kills frequently). The wolves retuned (likely passing back through the same area, as much as anything), and caught the lynx, cornered it, and tossed it around over and over, like a rag doll.

The interesting part of the list of critters that kill for other-than-food is dolphins. They supposedly use a greater percentage of their brain than people, from what I understood.

As far as animals not thinking or feeling, I disagree wholeheartedly.

I once shot a beaver near a shore, and the nervous system took over, with the dying motions sending it into the middle of a pond, where I tried off and on for 2 days to retrieve it with long narrow limbs, etc. A group of beaver of various sizes swam in circles around the floating carcass over that 2-day period, as though it were some sort of funeral procession or something. Who knows what they intended, but that's what they did.

We've seen cow moose experience a calf being killed, and hover near the lifeless body for days. Same in reverse, calf staying close to mother's carcass. Though in the second case, it makes more sense that maybe it was an issue of not understanding the whole death thing.

And I've had interactions with trespassing moose in my yard, where they did the opposite of what a person would expect, and became stand-offish, or -more- aggressive, even after firing a -very- loud, high-caliber magnum cartridge near their feet, where I -know- they could feel the stout reverberations in the ground, not to mention the significant noise from a .500 Mag.

I think that as humans, we tend to be species-centrist in our thinking. Religion telling us that we're stewards, and some interpreting this to mean that what ever we do is good, as all things come below us, in terms of advancement/development/capacity has, in my opinion, as often as not, been more of a mark of ignorance than our status.

And lastly, there's my amazing female German Shepherd; she seems very frustrated at not being able to speak English, but understanding it quite well. And I know there are things she and the other dogs will kill for the sake of killing; butterflies, bees, yellow jackets, voles, low-flying birds, etc.