alternatives to avid

[StankyBeamer]

These are all things I'm considering now. I dont prefer the use of hard chemicals, especially with my pets being one floor away from the grow, but the chems are back on the shelf in case of emergency, and the neem and pyrethrin and safer soap are in full swing. I'll look into that mineral oil treatment. And orechron, no one's upset with you or anyone else. It was just funny after we acknowledged the brix argument, expe kept popping in like "brix, just sayin". You only gotta tell someone something once, multiple explanations after that become condescending in appearance, and I think the whole organics crowd generally takes a condescending tone with growers who utilize mineral salts and chems. Not all tho.

 

[Mick]

neem oil or tea from neem cake will provide systemic results but they don't provide instant kill.

Neem does not effect any non plant sucking insects (the good guys like predator mites) but it might effect your balance of microbiology in LOS and I don't know how that pans out if your in a cycle or long term on recycled soil, would be interested to hear results.

Hey, if you water with neem once a week as a preventative then there's no need for an instant kill. Awhile ago I got slack and ended up with a massive spider mite infection with webs everywhere. After watering with neem every day for a week and picking off the webs, the mites were gone. No more new webs.
I've tried different neems and the only ones that have worked consistently were the cold pressed ones.
Some people reckon it taints the taste but I can't detect any difference.

I've noticed that young plants don't like getting watered with neem.

 

[expealadocious]

I wasnt trying to be condescending man and I dont preach organics. also in all honesty I was so stoned I didnt realize I already mentioned that earlier. Im just most intruiged with discussions concerning biological based pest control because most are long term or even permanent. also because ive been through my own pest hell to the point where I thought I had to burn my own house down and run away naked to ever grow again so im just someone who cares and wants people to not go through hell

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

I landed on a rotation of Avid, Kontos, and Tetrasan.

Its people like you who poison other people.

 

[StankyBeamer]

Avid has a half life of 12 hrs, and is only trans laminar. Meaning it doesn't move within the plant, meaning if I spray it in early veg, it doesn't end up in buds. Jackasses that spray buds with avid poison people. And Jackasses like you that do not understand the principles of half lives and xylem/phloem mobility make yourself look stupid. Thanks for adding nothing to the thread. When I spray a two foot plant, and It ends up being six feet tall with the bottom three feet pruned off, all fans with avid have been removed. Do you smoke pruned fans? Cuz that the only way your dumbass is getting poisoned from my plants. They also get lab tested for residuals, and pass, every time. Fuck off and go post in an organic thread.

Also would like to add that abamectin, spirotetramat, and etoxazole, the actives in the miticides I used, have EXTREMELY LOW mammalian toxicities, with ld50's in range of a few grams, when there is only few milligrams in the 2% abamectin solution in the bottle, and only a few micrograms when you figure mixing 1ml of 2% abamectin with 3800 ml of water. Then figure a 4 day half life with a 70 day flower, and all the pruned leaves that DO have avid have nanograms present. Do you know what a nanogram is? Probably not. Please don't try to hijack the thread with your lack of knowledge.

 

[StankyBeamer]

But you grow 100% of your produce and slaughter all organically raised livestock yourself though right? Cuz that's the only way you're not already taking in horrible pesticides every day. Do you know how much imidacloprid is in your average head of lettuce? Probably not. Or how much piperonyl butioxide is in everything you eat?

 

[dimebag_]

absolutely love your last 2 posts stankyb….ignorance can be a real bitch…ha
cheers brotha!

dbag-

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

Yeah because you have any idea about the metabolites of these insecticides, the possible cross-talk with these insecticides, thermal decomposition, mineral interaction with parent or daughter compounds...

Do you have an applicators license?

Are you applying shit meant for ornamental plants on cannabis?

Are you a "Medical" grower?

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

But you grow 100% of your produce and slaughter all organically raised livestock yourself though right? Cuz that's the only way you're not already taking in horrible pesticides every day.

Because of farmers like you...

Do you know how much imidacloprid is in your average head of lettuce? Probably not. Or how much piperonyl butioxide is in everything you eat?

Yeah great. I eat lettuce with imidicloprid. This is not the same. The USDA doesn't really focus testing and allowable ppm levels for lettuce based on thermal byproducts... ie smoking it.

Science is not strong here.

 

[StankyBeamer]

So ingesting something 100% is worse than inhaling a portion of it and exhaling the majority? Just stop bro. I just explained why you're wrong. The only systemic I use is kontos. Which i use more than double the pre harvest interval, because only the clones get it. The tetrasan and avid are not mobile in the plant, so they stay in the leaves sprayed, which are on 18" plants, that then get pruned,and stretch into six footers. So how does thermal decomposition and daughter compounds have anything to do with the buds that have never been sprayed, when the chemical doesn't migrate within the plant tissue? It can't get from fan leaves into buds magically, they're not systemic. Fuck off.

 

[Bwanabud]

I'm a Azamax type guy, kill the bugs before they kill the plants...make sure you're 2 weeks out before your smoke it.

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

So ingesting something 100% is worse than inhaling a portion of it and exhaling the majority?

Smoking is worse than eating, you should know that respiratory absorption is far greater than digestion.(depending on the ingredient)

So how does thermal decomposition and daughter compounds have anything to do with the buds that have never been sprayed, when the chemical doesn't migrate within the plant tissue? It can't get from fan leaves into buds magically, they're not systemic. Fuck off.

Dodge my Questions please

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do you have an applicators license?

Are you applying shit meant for ornamental plants on cannabis?

Are you a "Medical" grower?

[/FONT] What metabolites of these insecticides are present?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can the metabolites of these insecticides become mobile?

How about more persistent than the parent compound?

How about more mammalian susceptible?

How about blood brain barrier transmission?[/FONT]

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

lets examine some of your claims.

If you don't live in your grow space, orthene foggers would be ideal.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Short half life tho, so it would break down quickly

[/FONT]

Orthene really?


Fenpropathrin was examined for hydrolysis in water at ph 5,7, and 9. The compound was stable at pH 5 and pH 7 tX=295 to 607 days)


fenpropathrin and it's metabolites, TMPA and hydrogen cyanide

]the actives in the miticides I used[/font][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], have EXTREMELY LOW mammalian toxicities[/FONT]

What are the "inactive" ingredients ine those products?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] with ld50's in range of a few grams[/FONT], [/FONT]there is only few milligrams in the 2% abamectin solution in the bottle, and only a few micrograms when you figure mixing 1ml of 2% abamectin with 3800 ml of water. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If it is so safe and there are "only a few micro grams" in the bottle drink it.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[matt11]

I'm a Neem Oil user from day one, gives good protection
throughout the grow and is organic does molds too

did I say cheap!!

my2c

i second that

 

[StankyBeamer]

lets examine some of your claims.



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

Orthene really?


Fenpropathrin was examined for hydrolysis in water at ph 5,7, and 9. The compound was stable at pH 5 and pH 7 tX=295 to 607 days)


fenpropathrin and it's metabolites, TMPA and hydrogen cyanide




What are the "inactive" ingredients ine those products?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If it is so safe and there are "only a few micro grams" in the bottle drink it.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Orthene is acephate dumbass. In soil it has a half life of less than a day, even shorter when exposed to light. Its not fenpropathrin, but way to try to look educated with bullshit statistics.

And there are only a few ugs in a ml of avid because it is extremely strong towards species of the arachnid and insect family, and has an extremely low mammalian toxicity, do I need to speak slower? Do you not understand that you're a mammal, not an arachnid? Or do I also need to explain for a third time, avid and tetrasan are not mobile in the plant. So they can't get into a part of the plant that did not exist when they were sprayed. And if you prune worth a fuck and don't sog tiny ass indicas, you end up cutting off all the growth with laminar abamectin content.

But keep wasting your breath, I set ya on ignore, because your opinion is unnecessary and unwanted.

and my medicine added a year to the life expectancy of a stage four cancer patient given 2 months to live by her doctor. Ate my oil daily and lived 18 months. And I never charged a dime for oil that took me four #'s to produce. So tell me again why people like me are whats wrong with the world.

 

[StankyBeamer]

i second that

I'm using only OMRI certified products now that my infestation is erradicated. I grow only clone only strains, with a few exceptions, so mites happen. So i have the proper miticides available for single use. One spray per chem, once, early in veg, and then use only neem, soap, and pyrethrin without pbo. I smoke what I grow, so I try to keep chems minimal and effective so as to not overuse and create polluted meds and resistant pests. Simple as that.

 

[Bwanabud]

I'm using only OMRI certified products now that my infestation is erradicated. I grow only clone only strains, with a few exceptions, so mites happen. So i have the proper miticides available for single use. One spray per chem, once, early in veg, and then use only neem, soap, and pyrethrin without pbo. I smoke what I grow, so I try to keep chems minimal and effective so as to not overuse and create polluted meds and resistant pests. Simple as that.

I don't want to enter the octagon, but I just want to kill them all

 

[Mikell]

SeasonedHerb, come mis-Google facts in the myclobutanil thread. I feel neglected.

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

Orthene is acephate dumbass. In soil it has a half life of less than a day, even shorter when exposed to light. Its not fenpropathrin, but way to try to look educated with bullshit statistics.

You are correct I looked at an msds for "tame/Orthene" which is a completely different product and I admit my mistake
Tame®/Orthene® TR Total Release Insecticide - BASF ...


But here we go.

Soil microorganisms rapidly degrade acephate under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions.


The products of this are RE 18,420, methamidophos, and DMPT.

So please let me know how acephate is safe when its by-product is methamidophos


"Methamidophos is a highly toxic, highly regulated systemic and residual organophosphate insecticide, acaracide, and avicide (#EXTOXNET)."

in soil it has a half life of less than a day, even shorter when exposed to light.

"acephate samples exposed to sunlight and those that are kept in the dark exhibit essentially the same degree of stability"

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

do I need to speak slower? Do you not understand that you're a mammal, not an arachnid

[/FONT]

I understand fine, and you cant speak slower than typing...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

my medicine added a year to the life expectancy of a stage four cancer patient given 2 months to live by her doctor. Ate my oil daily and lived 18 months. And I never charged a dime for oil that took me four #'s to produce. So tell me again why people like me are whats wrong with the world.

[/FONT]

CONGRATS BRO thanks for helping people out.

Saying some1 lived longer because of my product "x" is the epitome of not science, since you have no idea how long she would have lived without product "x".

dodge all of my questions... SO ill ask them again
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do you have an applicators license?

Are you applying shit meant for ornamental plants on cannabis?

Are you a "Medical" grower?

[/FONT] What metabolites of these insecticides are present?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can the metabolites of these insecticides become mobile?

How about more persistent than the parent compound?

How about more mammalian susceptible?

How about blood brain barrier transmission?[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[53A50N3D H3RB]

SeasonedHerb, come mis-Google facts in the myclobutanil thread. I feel neglected.

I acknowledged my mistake.

Since you are feeling neglected what are the inert ingredients in eagle 20?

80.3% inert ingredients