alternatives to avid

[StankyBeamer]

I notice a lot of talk of avid as the Holy grail of miticides, I was wondering why products like shuttle, judo, akari, and sanmite are seldom mentioned? Sanmite is one of the few that's effective against eggs as well as adults, almost all of them control nymphs. Seems like an application of avid, followed by an application of sanmite or floramite to clean up the eggs, then one more app of avid and you'd be good as long as you sprayed thoroughly. I know none of these Chems are too savory, but I believe in effective use so as to minimalize the amount needed. I dont feel like breeding super mites by just kicking a dead horse with pyrethrins, I'd like to supplement organic measures with a lipid biosynthesis inhibitor and a mitochondria electron transport inhibitor, so as to eradicate all life stages completely and also in a timely manner so as to resume flowering without too much delay after shutting down the flower room to clean everything up

 

[StankyBeamer]

I landed on a rotation of Avid, Kontos, and Tetrasan. Kontos got a 95% mortality rate on affected life stages of two spotted mites and is honey bee friendly. Also has a relatively high ld50 in mammals and a residual persistence of around 30 days. Avid has laminar activity and will get the adults, and tetrasan will finish off any left over eggs, larvae, and nymphs for a complete eradication given that I spray thoroughly and avoid recontamination. Neem, soap, and pyrethrin treatments will be implemented regularly on the veg room once the population is gone, and foggers of pyrethrin and acephate will be used between flowering cycles. Anyone struggling with mites, there ya go, that should do it.

 

[expealadocious]

Raising brix levels....

 

[StankyBeamer]

Huh?

 

[cocktail frank]

What he means is if you're plants are in optimal health, the bugs won't fuck with them.

 

[StankyBeamer]

I disagree. If spider mites make it on to a healthy plant, they'll survive and reproduce. Sure, keeping up on plant health would reduce the damage, but I get my buds lab tested and provide for dispensaries. So far my mite population was caught early enough that there has been no fecal matter or carcasses detectable in the lab. But I will not just keep growing with them and just try too keeps things happy. I'll treat in veg, clear and clean the flower room, bomb, then allow enough time for residuals to not be a concern, then resume business as usual with healthy bug free plants

 

[iTarzan]

pylon

 

[StankyBeamer]

Kontos is spirotetramat, a chemical related to spiromefisan, the active chemical in pylon. The difference: kontos is fully systemic and formulated for soil drenches, so even coverage isn't required. It's not a contact kill like pylon, but rather metabolizes into a chemical analog much more toxic to the mites, and works well against aphids, fungus gnats, broad mites, leaf miners, and the list goes on. It's effective for 30 days, and you want more like fifty days between the last application and harvest, but it is rated for some edible crops, it's basically a godsend. Add 1ml/gallon into your regular feeding in veg and repeat a few weeks later. Also, it's $175 for a bottle, as opposed to the $300-400 for pylon, and it's a lot newer so there will be less likelihood that whatever pests you have have been exposed to it before therefore resistance isn't an issue as much as with pylon. Boom. Your welcome.

 

[mtntrogger]

hey stanky check into that conserve sc stuff, read a ton of good reports. Active ingredient is spinosad, but in massive concentration.

 

[StankyBeamer]

I've heard of a few of my friends that are hardcore about organics using azamax and captain Jacks mixed in the same spray and swear by it. I got 1 oz bottles of avid and floramite, two ounces of tetrasan powder, and a half pint of kontos already, all four of which are different modes of action, so it should wreak havoc on the pricks while not requiring repeated sprays of any of them. I use kontos in veg already, to keep gnat populations controlled and as a preventative, and my veg room has never had a mite, still can't find any. They were only on plants in flower over 6 wks old, so they would have been well outside of the 30 day residual window for the kontos, shit really works, the location of the mites says it all, so all the other sprays on my veg room are more of a precaution. I'm more focused on cleaning the flower room and house once it's empty.

 

[amanda88]

I'm a Neem Oil user from day one, gives good protection
throughout the grow and is organic does molds too

did I say cheap!!

my2c

 

[StankyBeamer]

Could not agree more, all my friends swear by azamax at $40 for like 4 gallons worth of concentrate, when my $10 bottle of cold pressed has lasted forever. I just typically consider neem my preventative, I've never had it work as a full eradicator

 

[MrBungle]

captain jacks and sledgehammer alternated with azatrol or azamax whatever... never use the spinosad more than 6 times in one grow period for a plant or plants

 

[amanda88]

I was exactly the same until I joined ICMAG and read that its been recently been proven to be systemic, Yeah..! the plants can drink that oil up, adding another 50%(imo) to its effectiveness
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=290297

just finding that post is a B!tch ...

 

[Mikell]

I like your approach Stanky. Not very familiar with a few of those but it's clear you've done the leg work few others do. Four thumbs up

 

[StankyBeamer]

Thanks mikell, I've got it to four different moa's, my fight with aphids last year has me a lot more thorough and prepared for invaders, figured I might make it a little easier for those of us that are new enough to look to the hydro store for mite control. The regimen I'm implementing uses GABA receptor inhibitor, mitochondria electron transport inhibitor, a lipid bio-synrhesis inhibitor, and floramite which affects gaba receptors but differently than avid. I hate bugs lol. Most of my research was from University ag publications and some was from syngenta, should do the trick and hopefully help other farmers in similar circumstances

 

[StankyBeamer]

A more full list of the miticides I researched: akari, sanmite, hexygon, forbid/judo, pylon, ovation, and shuttle. Research mode of action, and pick three different moa's and rotate. No one should ever deal with mites as an ongoing issue, and with all the passing around of genetics every good grower should have a couple bottles of "just in case" supplies. All should be used in early to mid veg, and should be mixed at proper ph, which is usually 5.5-6. These aren't for consistent use, but rather to knock out a population quickly and then switch to organic preventatives.

Also, avoid using two different miticides with the same mode of action, could cause problems

 

[cocktail frank]

Most important to understand about Brix is the affect on the plant. First, if there are more sugars and other beneficial components like minerals and amino acids (build- ing blocks), the plant is able to build more good stuff (oils, flavors, resins, etc.). This makes the plant tastier and healthier to us. At the same time, decomposing insects and pathogens don’t like these compounds.

If you have a healthy plant reading a high Brix level, a spider mite for example, will not be attracted by the plant. The high mineral content makes the plant repulsive to the mite so it leaves. Natural resistance with no artificial and toxic chemicals used.

Every plant has different ideal Brix levels and many can be found online. Most important to understand is that raising the Brix is a good thing and should be a primary goal of growers. So how can you raise the Brix level in your plants?

Proper mineralization. This is the key to everything. One of the main reasons why plants get sick (low Brix) is lack of the tools to create the good stuff. Getting more minerals (in proper form) into your plants is going to raise the Brix level and provide the tools that the plant needs to produce other natural immune compounds.

A key to this is silicic acid and L-amino acids. Both of these compounds help to in- crease the bioavailability (absorption and transport) of minerals into and throughout the plant. The less the plant must work to bring in food, the more it is able to bring in. More minerals equal higher Brix.

Calcium plays a key role in increasing Brix level. Since calcium is immobile AND near the beginning of the biochemical sequence of uptake, it’s absorption affects most of the rest of the minerals. If calcium availability and uptake is optimized, then all other mineral uptake will be more balanced and effective.

Also, mineral salts (from cheap chemical fertilizers) can be detrimental to mineralization. Excessive salts cause imbalance and are toxic to living tissue and cause stress that further weakens the plant. IN a truly diverse organic environment where soil micro-life and plants are working fully in their place, pest problems are isolated or non-existent.

C&P off the net.

you can disagree all you want, but the proof is in the pudding

 

[iTarzan]

Beethoven miticide.

It is good against two spotted mites that are resistant to many things.

 

[StankyBeamer]

Beethoven is etoxazole, the active in tetrasan, the mitochondria electron transport inhibitor that I'm already using. Good to know there's not a resistance problem