Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

[Old Yeller]

Clowntown -
Sekonic makes the best light meters out there. Expensive, yes - but real easy to re-sell if you don't want to keep it. I'd send you mine if it hadn't been ripped.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/368226-REG/Sekonic_401309_L_308S_Flashmate_Light_Meter.html

 

[clowntown]

Yeah... I'm pretty broke and every penny needs to go into finishing my basement... I'm not about to spend any money on this at this time, sorry...

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Did any of you test a Adjust-A-Wings?
www.adjustawings.com

It's kind of beside the point fideralala, since this thread is about air cooled reflectors. The AAW is an open bat-wing, a different concept of dealing with the heat.

Jorge Cervantes tested a large number of different types of reflectors and came to the conclusion that the Adjust-A-Wing was the reflector - of all on the market - that delivers the most light (direct and reflective light together). It also has very good light spreading capacity (a reflector that 'spreads' the light evenly over a surface without creating hotspots can be moved closer), which makes it one of the best if not the best reflector you can get your hands on.

You can check out the stats in his latest "Marijuana Grow Bible", chapter: Light, Lamps & Electricity.

 

[Old Yeller]

For the price of 1 Adjust-a-Wing w/socket you could get 2 Supersun 2's & never look back.

 

[clowntown]

For the price of 1 Adjust-a-Wing w/socket you could get 2 Supersun 2's & never look back.

What is an AAW typically priced at? I couldn't see any mentions of prices on the manufacturer's site.

I haven't lit up any of my SuperSun 2's yet, but it sure does look nice. Although it probably makes little practical difference, I really like the fact that they did things like going the extra mile and making the Mogul socket more aerodynamic (those who have seen one in person should know what I mean).

 

[knna]

For the price of 1 Adjust-a-Wing w/socket you could get 2 Supersun 2's & never look back.

There is no more profitable investment on a indoor grow room that a good reflector. 5% more light avalaible and it pay itself the first harvest, and you get increased yields for years. The other only way of increasing yields is CO2 systems, but the cost of a good hood is negligible compared to a CO2 system, wich need manteinance anyway (a reflector only needs periodical cleaning).

A well matched footprint, on a way more light is colected by plants and reduce reflection losses, does huge differences too.

 

[badmf]

Factor the distance the light is to the plant with a non-air cooled light. You may get a better spread but if you must increase distance even 6"s you are losing way too many PAR lumens to make it worth it. Plus the heat factor in the room/cab.
Although more difficult a air-cooled light on a mover allows 3-4"s with no sweat. But is a pain to adjust hoses and such, esp if you are like me and try to keep ducts as short and straight as possible. I now use em w/o the movers, lol.

 

[knna]

What is an AAW typically priced at? I couldn't see any mentions of prices on the manufacturer's site.

I haven't lit up any of my SuperSun 2's yet, but it sure does look nice. Although it probably makes little practical difference, I really like the fact that they did things like going the extra mile and making the Mogul socket more aerodynamic (those who have seen one in person should know what I mean).

It depends of the size and the finish. Stuco finish is cheaper but less reflective than the pro.

About 100$ the cheaper and a little over 200$ the more expensive.

Factor the distance the light is to the plant with a non-air cooled light. You may get a better spread but if you must increase distance even 6"s you are losing way too many PAR lumens to make it worth it. Plus the heat factor in the room/cab.

You loss very little PAR watts due to distance itself. Just what get absorbed by dust in air (little). What drops with distance is irradiance, the density of light at the lighted point, and its due the same PAR watts are distributed along a wider area, not because they dissapear for being thrown farer.

What is true is a bulb placed farer often loss more light, but its due more light bounce at walls or not hit the grow surface. Thats why matching footprint and grow area shape is so important.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

For the price of 1 Adjust-a-Wing w/socket you could get 2 Supersun 2's & never look back.

That seems like an exaggeration, although I guess it depends on where you are. I bought my Adjust-a-Wings for less than $100 each, in Europe, although they seem to be pricier in the US.

Actually, I did the opposite to what you suggested. I threw out my air cooled hoods and replaced them with bat-wings, sealed the room with A/C as only temp control.
Best thing I've done in years, no more noisy extractors, no more ducts, no more bulk hanging from the ceiling, prolonged life span on the bulbs. I'll never look back as long as I run this room.
That said, every room has its own solution, and in some, air cooled is the way to go.

Factor the distance the light is to the plant with a non-air cooled light. You may get a better spread but if you must increase distance even 6"s you are losing way too many PAR lumens to make it worth it. Plus the heat factor in the room/cab.
Although more difficult a air-cooled light on a mover allows 3-4"s with no sweat. But is a pain to adjust hoses and such, esp if you are like me and try to keep ducts as short and straight as possible. I now use em w/o the movers, lol.

You'd be amazed how close you can go with bat-wings, once you've thought the heat problem through. You mount a heat shield under the bulb and you've taken those lost inches back. I also fixed suspended fans (hanging from the reflectors) blowing straight at the bulbs, so they're air cooled, but deliver more light than a sealed hood with protective glass. Put sufficient A/C cooling in there together with CO2, and your heat problems are under control while your lights are literally on top of the canopy.

 

[clowntown]

That seems like an exaggeration, although I guess it depends on where you are. I bought my Adjust-a-Wings for less than $100 each, in Europe, although they seem to be pricier in the US.

Stucco or reflective finish?

I got my SuperSun 2's for $88 a piece (new in box) so that'd be about right, according to:

About 100$ the cheaper and a little over 200$ the more expensive.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Reflective, for 600w bulbs, with heat shields included. Sold for 75 euros a piece if I don't remember it wrong.

I found them on the net at an Australian hydro outlet for about $25 each, but that was a couple of years back.

$88 for a quality hood is a great price.

 

[Old Yeller]

This was the MSRP off the Sunlight Supply site:

ADJUST-A-WINGS REFLECTOR® NEW!
NEW! USA EXCLUSIVE PRODUCT!
• Twice the power and efficiency of most other reflectors
• Increase the growing area under each lamp by up to 75%
• Increase yield per lamp up to 50%.
• The “Adjustable Light Spread” allows growers to create ideal lighting conditions across all stages of plant growth for increased vitality, health & yield.
• Sold in 17 countries across 4 continents, Adjust-A-Wings® are the “reflectors of choice” for many of the world’s top growers!
• It is highly recommended that a Super Spreader® be used with every Adjust-A-Wing®. Purchase separately.
• Purchase lamp separately.

“Message from the inventor”

The Adjust-A-Wings® original design combines cutting edge science with biological beauty and simplicity to create a reflector system of unparalleled performance and versatility.

The Adjust-A-Wings® can be adjusted to wide settings and positioned incredibly close to plants for maximum light transferal (growing power) and area coverage. Alternately, the wings may be adjusted to more narrow settings and positioned further from the plants to suit the light and heat requirements of more sensitive plants or plant stages.

The adjustable nature and even spread of the light foot print gives growers the unique ability to create seasonal (spring, summer, autumn) conditions indoors and efficiently trigger their plants natural hormone cycles for faster growth, better health & maturity and major yield increase.

The Adjust-A-Wings® novel design features are protected by a range of international patents registered, accepted and pending with I.P.O. Note: Illegal manufacture, wholesale, retail and purchase of patented products is punishable by law.

Please report all illegal and inferior copies to [email protected]

Best regards,

Paul Cronk. Bsc - Env, Letters Patent. Patent No. US 6,053,624

Adjust-A-Wings Reflector®
Item Part # Color Size MSRP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adjust-A-Wing Medium Reflector® With Cord 904535 $164.95 Each
Adjust-A-Wing Large Reflector® With Cord 904540 $215.95 Each
Adjust-A-Wing Medium Reflector® No Cord 904545 $149.95 Each
Adjust-A-Wing Large Reflector® No Cord 904550 $199.95 Each
Adjust-A-Wing Socket Assembly With Cord 904555 $39.95 Each
Adjust-A-Wing Socket - no cord 904560 $27.95 Each

I'm still drooling about an A/C hood system, but my SS batwings have made a huge difference over my old antique hoods. Growing in a stairwell where all the heat rises to the top of the point, I'm surprised that my 105cfm axial with a diy filter can handle the heat from the 400W HPS & a 2'-4 bulb T5. Plus, it's already crowded in their - I can just imagine 6" duct all over the place! The temps measured at the exhaust don't go over 85F.
I sort of like the idea of no glass between the bulb & the plants (more uvb?) - mine is about 8-10 in. from the tops of the plants with no burn, even with an uneven canopy.
Because of poverty I knew I could only afford to buy 2 wings for my 400's, but I was shocked by Pico's measurements & Darthvapor's charts of the SSWing to the SS2 hood. For $34 it's got to be the best value in reflectors out there.

 

[clowntown]

Wow those Adjust-A-Wing's are highly marketed (and marked up) due to their apparently good (?) performance!

It is a very simple design, and extremely low-cost to manufacture. Why didn't I think of this? Almost as good marketing as bottled water...

 

[badmf]

RCheeks have you measured the diff in light with the sheild vs w/o? And I might be surprised but can you get within 6 inches?

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I sort of like the idea of no glass between the bulb & the plants (more uvb?) - mine is about 8-10 in. from the tops of the plants with no burn, even with an uneven canopy.

No, not more UV-B, but somewhere between 5% - 10% more light, depending on the (quartz) glass quality and its thickness.

I don't want to pull this thread into the already existing UV-B debate (there are plenty of other threads about it), but there exists no proof of the supposed increase in THC production from UV-B except for a couple of studies from the early 80's that seems to establish that Cannabis grown on high altitudes produces increased amounts of THC. The conclusion from these studies were that the increase in UV-B on high altitudes is responsible for the higher THC levels.
Nevertheless, no research has managed to show increased THC production in plants grown indoors under artificial UV-B lighting.
Which leads us to conclude that the way things are is more complicated than a simple correlation between UV-B and THC production.

UV-B is a dangerous type of radiation, and rigging your growroom with UV-B rich light - such as reptile lights - does not seem to increase THC levels in your plants. But it does create a less healthy environment for your plants and yourself.

In any case, High Pressure Sodium lights produces almost no UV-B (but still grow 20% THC strains), Metal Halides a bit more. But contemporary safety regulations push MH bulb manufacturers to coat their bulbs with anti UV-B protection (generally a titanium coating, similar to what is used in sunglasses), so in the end most MH bulbs emit insignifically more UV-B than HPS bulbs.

So there goes the argument that Metal Halides produces more potent pot because of higher UV-B levels.

RCheeks have you measured the diff in light with the sheild vs w/o? And I might be surprised but can you get within 6 inches?

I think I can take it down to about 8', like Old Yeller.

To tell you honestly, I don't see the point in going much closer with 600w HID lights, unless you run a light mover. Lux reaching the canopy will be greater of course, according to the Inverse Square Law, but the light spread capacity will diminish, and simply cover a smaller area with a major hot spot right under the bulb.

A perfectly distributed light source giving the whole canopy the same amount of Lux would be a different matter though.

It is a very simple design, and extremely low-cost to manufacture. Why didn't I think of this? Almost as good marketing as bottled water...

Well, you can always join me in my business idea, connect a sideline pipe to the Pope's personal toilet in the Vatican, recuperate his urine and sell it as holy water. $50 per 6 oz bottle would be a fair price for a true believer, wouldn't you say?

 

[mk6]

Just wanted to thank all you guys for all the work you did, major kudos to you all.

This is probably one of the best threads on here (should make it a sticky)
as it pertains to almost every enthusiast on here – except some outdoor.
Defiantly helped me to have a better understanding of the over all spread/displacement, which helps me to maximize the lights full potential.
Thanks

 

[metamorf]

Great thread, thanks!

 

[rootfingers]

You said it metamorf, I just typed a long cheesy "thank you for this thread" reply but fortunately my modem flatulized and it was lost.

Here's to you though Pico for getting this party started and another for all the other people that helped make it very easy to compare hoods.

 

[Ignotius]

holy crow, i just spent a few hours sorting thru this mess, and im still not sure how the 1000 watt vs. 600 watt comparison turned out for the super sun2 vs. cool sunxl...

did i miss something?

its definately possible, lol, ya know if ya pm off topic comments its alot easier for people to get info they need, k, im just onry from feeling like i wasted a few hours.

good info and good thread tho...

so im upgrading from 600 watt ballasts to the 1000w dimmable quantums, which ill probly run at 750w...
currently have supersun2's but need to retool the room...so there will be some bends and another light added(3 total). worried the extra heat will require a 8" exhaust so i was thinkin bout getting some of the cool sunxl's....

but i can see from this thread that the super sun2's are much better...for 600s...which i wont be using...need to order a.s.a.p. too so any help would be rad.

another option im considering is adding another ss2 but upgrading to a 10" vortex and 8" duct with 6" reducers on the hoods...

buuuuuut, still kinda thinking theres a chance the coolsunxl 8" would throw a wider better footprint for the higher wattage bulbs...plus be nice to not have to get a bunch of duct fittings and a bigger ex fan...

any thoughts?
thanks, Iggy

 

[pico]

I use the ss2s with 1000s. I would use them over the coolsun xl any day.

Sorry, as I said before other people started testing, shit is going to get confusing fast with all the other testers and numbers and crazy graphs.