Air condition more efficient ?

[Ttystikk]

No flow-no go will also provide safeguard for your pump. The seals in most impeller style pumps will fail if ran dry. Hell add a relay to the design of controller and add flood sensors. For what I call my "no flow or overflow won't go" so my pump and chillers shut down if a leek in room or loss of flow out the second chiller.


But I've said elsewhere chillers are for people that have a good sense of diy in there blood. Window ac= good n cheap or split ac =great and higher seer rating and options for variable frequency drives! The chiller competes with the best split if setup right.

You're not the first to suggest I use a variable frequency drive to control my chiller. I think this would be an excellent idea, especially since I work pretty hard at offering a consistent heat load around the clock.

I'm planning the purchase of a comprehensive growing and environmental control system, called Growtronix. I believe this many give me the ability to integrate such switches and alarms with the relevant pumps. Whether it's expensive is another question... but what price chiller replacement?

 

[budleydoright]

....

2 Tons is only small if one does not know how to get the most from it. This is not my problem, lol

Air conditioning indeed does an excellent job of dehumidifying spaces, too well most of the time! The advantage to water chilling is that the level of dehumidification is much more controllable, IME. I live in an arid high altitude climate, which makes things worse for AC both for cooling and dehuey.

I mean small in the portable sense. It's not a fixed installation.

I have never had a problem in my flower room with too much dehumidification. As a matter of fact, I struggle to keep it down to acceptable levels. That's one of the reasons I have trouble believing an ice box could handle it, unless if course I was running 30-40 degree water through it, then I would have condensation on all of the hoses, fitings etc...

I have run my Co2 off of a chiller circuit, it will condense all of the watervapor out of the exhaust which is nice to help with humidity, but then again, there's another device in my room sweating water.

 

[seebobski]

Hose sweat is controlled with pipe insulation. Problems solved! A split ac insulates the cooper line set because they sweat too.

 

[seebobski]

I run dual chillers 1.5 HP and 1hp which is almost like a vfd. One turns on and if load is too high the second one comes on. And bonus of staggered starts.

 

[TooHighTider]

I mean small in the portable sense. It's not a fixed installation.

I have never had a problem in my flower room with too much dehumidification. As a matter of fact, I struggle to keep it down to acceptable levels. That's one of the reasons I have trouble believing an ice box could handle it, unless if course I was running 30-40 degree water through it, then I would have condensation on all of the hoses, fitings etc...

I have run my Co2 off of a chiller circuit, it will condense all of the watervapor out of the exhaust which is nice to help with humidity, but then again, there's another device in my room sweating water.

Hey Budly,

If you were going to put your window unit DIY chiller in a window, where would you seal it to keep odors inside?

Thanks

 

[Ttystikk]

I mean small in the portable sense. It's not a fixed installation.

I have never had a problem in my flower room with too much dehumidification. As a matter of fact, I struggle to keep it down to acceptable levels. That's one of the reasons I have trouble believing an ice box could handle it, unless if course I was running 30-40 degree water through it, then I would have condensation on all of the hoses, fitings etc...

I have run my Co2 off of a chiller circuit, it will condense all of the watervapor out of the exhaust which is nice to help with humidity, but then again, there's another device in my room sweating water.

Fifty five to sixty degree water should work fine, look up 'dewpoint'. You're trying to create an artificial dewpoint in the growroom with the water cooled cores. If the core is too small it won't keep up, and cooler water won't help.

Excess dehumidification is a common problem here in high altitude, arid Colorado. YMMV based on local conditions, but not as much as you might think. After all, once you've sealed the room, at least in theory the climate outside should be irrelevant, right?

I have indeed exceeded the capacity of my Iceboxes to handle room humidity recently, as I made the switch from horizontal ScrOG to vertical silo trellis. This is due to both going bare bulb and seeing double or more plant mass than before, and would overwhelm any unit not properly sized for it. And the first symptom is excessive sweating, not high temps.

Insulating lines helps efficiency and eliminates sweating. I run CO² tanks and it takes about four tanks at $8 ea for a run. I feel like I'm coming out ahead vs burning a fuel due to both excess heat and moisture, so I look at tank cost as HVAC expense I don't otherwise need to pay for to get rid of.

If my situation were one where I needed one or both, of course I'd use a burner. As it happens, the initial ChillKing and kit that I got used included a HydroGen CO² burner and the no-flow, no go switch. I traded them to a client in the mountains above Boulder because he runs propane heat for his mountain home and also needed extra humidity. In return, I got some nice LED lights I still use in my veg, so we both made out!

Finally, my 2 Ton window mount ChillKing unit IS portable; the biggest unit they offer that is. It does generally take two people to move it but with two it's very manageable.

 

[seebobski]

Hey Budly,

If you were going to put your window unit DIY chiller in a window, where would you seal it to keep odors inside?

Thanks

a piece of rigid expanded foam then spray foam to seal around the edges. At the point of where it sits in the window.

 

[Ttystikk]

Hey Budly,

If you were going to put your window unit DIY chiller in a window, where would you seal it to keep odors inside?

Thanks

I got you, bro- the answer is... ANYWHERE YOU LIKE!

Yes, really; the odor is in the air in the grow room. Water gets warmed up carrying heat out of your grow room and then passes through the chiller. The chiller cools the water and sends it back, without ever letting the water involved out of its own pipe.

Meanwhile, the heat is picked up by a Freon coil inside that waterline and carried to the chiller's compressor where it is compressed and heated exactly like an AC unit does. The hot gas then goes to the back and a fan blows air through another core to exhaust the heat.

Since there is no odor laden air getting anywhere near the unit, it will not create condensate with an odor in it. Therefore, this is totally smellproof. PERIOD.

AC can't touch that, either. Minisplits can, but here you need a tech to move lines. It's an issue they're working at overcoming. Meanwhile, water is and always will be a better medium for moving heat, and to paraphrase the late great Big Daddy Don Garlits himself, anything you can do to a minisplit, you can do to a chiller and get the same or greater benefit.

Ultimately, here's the breakdown; water chilling is a PITA if you're working with an impermanent situation. Once you've put down roots and can modify your place, the advantages of water cooling become both more attractive and more accessible.

This is why you won't see me talking a guy on a lease out of a minisplit, because the tool has to fit the job at hand as well as the circumstances. Nonetheless, chilling is ultimately the most efficient option, IF one is set up to take advantage of it properly.

This brings me to the Opticlimate units, which do AC (and presumably dehuey too?) inside the room and then emit heat by heating water up to roughly 110, if I recall correctly. Again, AWESOME if you are well set up to take advantage of free hot water, not so much if you can't install the necessary hot water lines to do so.

I'm an engineer, not a purist. Engineering is about the art of the possible on a budget, and I happen to thrive on the challenge of very small budgets. In a perfect world, water chilling is 'best'. In this world of high cost, the realities of tenant/apartment life and do on, it's obvious that different solutions might be a better fit.

My point from the beginning here was to make sure that when choosing your cooling system, you choose the best for your application. 'Best' starts with the most efficient solution, cost no object, and then works backwards based on the constraints of the job.

 

[RoadRash]

HI all,

i´m wondering why I can not find big or large (6k upwards) grows with a exhaust system. It seems everybody is using AC.

Is it more efficient to cool the room with a AC instead of using a exhaust system with active air intake.

AC need lots of power but if you need two fans or lets say 4 fans (2 for active intake and 2 for outtake), thats also a lot of power.

greetings

I suggest talking to a contractor who does Ground Effects Cooling.

Basically that means that they run air through pipes in the ground, where the temp runs about 55 degrees F once you get down 5 feet.


It is more common in Europe. They use it for heating too - when it's -20 outside, 55 degree air is an improvement.

The main thing about it is, much less power consumption.

All your energy goes into moving air, instead of into compressing and expanding air like an Air Conditioner does.


Once such a system is gotten working, it's energy consumption is much less than a conventional American A/C cooling system.

And lower energy consumption is good, especially the stealth part of it.

 

[Ttystikk]

Hose sweat is controlled with pipe insulation. Problems solved! A split ac insulates the cooper line set because they sweat too.

Hey buddy, I recognize that handle! Wazzap!

I run dual chillers 1.5 HP and 1hp which is almost like a vfd. One turns on and if load is too high the second one comes on. And bonus of staggered starts.

Me like. Kinda like a two speed transmission. If one was one Ton and the other was two Tons, you could have three steps! This is giving me ideas...

a piece of rigid expanded foam then spray foam to seal around the edges. At the point of where it sits in the window.

Dude, it's a chiller. Get it away from the garden and just run a couple of waterlines. If it's too close to the grow room neither will benefit because they'll make one another hot. The only way smell leaks out is if he has it mounted in the grow room window... in which case you'd want to seal the FRONT of the thing, everything and around the waterlines going into it. Otherwise, the cold water pipe running through the front of the unit will create a smelly condensate just like an AC unit will.

 

[Ttystikk]

I suggest talking to a contractor who does Ground Effects Cooling.

Basically that means that they run air through pipes in the ground, where the temp runs about 55 degrees F once you get down 5 feet.


It is more common in Europe. They use it for heating too - when it's -20 outside, 55 degree air is an improvement.

The main thing about it is, much less power consumption.

All your energy goes into moving air, instead of into compressing and expanding air like an Air Conditioner does.


Once such a system is gotten working, it's energy consumption is much less than a conventional American A/C cooling system.

And lower energy consumption is good, especially the stealth part of it.

This is an excellent option, but only if you can afford the up front cost and have a place to do it. That rules out most of us, unfortunately.

OTOH- when I get the chance to build my dream home, you can bet your ass this is in the plans!

 

[budleydoright]

Hose sweat is controlled with pipe insulation. Problems solved! A split ac insulates the cooper line set because they sweat too.

I know this. You see I have this vision of Iceboxes being up near the hoods with water lines running to them as well as some ducting. Am I wrong?

Hey Budly,

If you were going to put your window unit DIY chiller in a window, where would you seal it to keep odors inside?
Thanks

I would have left the factory seal intact when I built it.

Fifty five to sixty degree water should work fine, look up 'dewpoint'. You're trying to create an artificial dewpoint in the growroom with the water cooled cores. If the core is too small it won't keep up, and cooler water won't help.

Excess dehumidification is a common problem here in high altitude, arid Colorado. YMMV based on local conditions, but not as much as you might think. After all, once you've sealed the room, at least in theory the climate outside should be irrelevant, right?

I have indeed exceeded the capacity of my Iceboxes to handle room humidity recently, as I made the switch from horizontal ScrOG to vertical silo trellis. This is due to both going bare bulb and seeing double or more plant mass than before, and would overwhelm any unit not properly sized for it. And the first symptom is excessive sweating, not high temps.

Insulating lines helps efficiency and eliminates sweating. I run CO² tanks and it takes about four tanks at $8 ea for a run. I feel like I'm coming out ahead vs burning a fuel due to both excess heat and moisture, so I look at tank cost as HVAC expense I don't otherwise need to pay for to get rid of.

If my situation were one where I needed one or both, of course I'd use a burner. As it happens, the initial ChillKing and kit that I got used included a HydroGen CO² burner and the no-flow, no go switch. I traded them to a client in the mountains above Boulder because he runs propane heat for his mountain home and also needed extra humidity. In return, I got some nice LED lights I still use in my veg, so we both made out!

Finally, my 2 Ton window mount ChillKing unit IS portable; the biggest unit they offer that is. It does generally take two people to move it but with two it's very manageable.

I was under the impression that a colder evaporator would remove more moisture. I don't know the physics benind this so I am in no position to argue that point. Experience does tell me that a glass full of ice water has a lot more condensation on it than a glass of 55-60 degree water.

Wow 8 bucks a tank is awsome I would probably still use mine at that price! I got up to about 1 a week when I switched.

I too am in the high desert, 5700msl. Very dry and almost 70 today.

I got you, bro- the answer is... ANYWHERE YOU LIKE!

Yes, really; the odor is in the air in the grow room. Water gets warmed up carrying heat out of your grow room and then passes through the chiller. The chiller cools the water and sends it back, without ever letting the water involved out of its own pipe.

Meanwhile, the heat is picked up by a Freon coil inside that waterline and carried to the chiller's compressor where it is compressed and heated exactly like an AC unit does. The hot gas then goes to the back and a fan blows air through another core to exhaust the heat.

Since there is no odor laden air getting anywhere near the unit, it will not create condensate with an odor in it. Therefore, this is totally smellproof. PERIOD.

AC can't touch that, either. Minisplits can, but here you need a tech to move lines. It's an issue they're working at overcoming. Meanwhile, water is and always will be a better medium for moving heat, and to paraphrase the late great Big Daddy Don Garlits himself, anything you can do to a minisplit, you can do to a chiller and get the same or greater benefit.

Ultimately, here's the breakdown; water chilling is a PITA if you're working with an impermanent situation. Once you've put down roots and can modify your place, the advantages of water cooling become both more attractive and more accessible.

This is why you won't see me talking a guy on a lease out of a minisplit, because the tool has to fit the job at hand as well as the circumstances. Nonetheless, chilling is ultimately the most efficient option, IF one is set up to take advantage of it properly.

This brings me to the Opticlimate units, which do AC (and presumably dehuey too?) inside the room and then emit heat by heating water up to roughly 110, if I recall correctly. Again, AWESOME if you are well set up to take advantage of free hot water, not so much if you can't install the necessary hot water lines to do so.

I'm an engineer, not a purist. Engineering is about the art of the possible on a budget, and I happen to thrive on the challenge of very small budgets. In a perfect world, water chilling is 'best'. In this world of high cost, the realities of tenant/apartment life and do on, it's obvious that different solutions might be a better fit.

My point from the beginning here was to make sure that when choosing your cooling system, you choose the best for your application. 'Best' starts with the most efficient solution, cost no object, and then works backwards based on the constraints of the job.

That opticlimate adds heat via 1-3 eletric units to keep the air warm enough for the compressor to run and the evaporator to condense. So Electric heat and refrigerated air at the same time! At least with a dehuey your getting both sides of the heat pump. Hope your not growing tomatoes! Looks very ineffecient to me.

 

[TooHighTider]

I got you, bro- the answer is... ANYWHERE YOU LIKE!

Yes, really; the odor is in the air in the grow room. Water gets warmed up carrying heat out of your grow room and then passes through the chiller. The chiller cools the water and sends it back, without ever letting the water involved out of its own pipe.

Meanwhile, the heat is picked up by a Freon coil inside that waterline and carried to the chiller's compressor where it is compressed and heated exactly like an AC unit does. The hot gas then goes to the back and a fan blows air through another core to exhaust the heat.

Since there is no odor laden air getting anywhere near the unit, it will not create condensate with an odor in it. Therefore, this is totally smellproof. PERIOD.

AC can't touch that, either. Minisplits can, but here you need a tech to move lines. It's an issue they're working at overcoming. Meanwhile, water is and always will be a better medium for moving heat, and to paraphrase the late great Big Daddy Don Garlits himself, anything you can do to a minisplit, you can do to a chiller and get the same or greater benefit.

Ultimately, here's the breakdown; water chilling is a PITA if you're working with an impermanent situation. Once you've put down roots and can modify your place, the advantages of water cooling become both more attractive and more accessible.

This is why you won't see me talking a guy on a lease out of a minisplit, because the tool has to fit the job at hand as well as the circumstances. Nonetheless, chilling is ultimately the most efficient option, IF one is set up to take advantage of it properly.

This brings me to the Opticlimate units, which do AC (and presumably dehuey too?) inside the room and then emit heat by heating water up to roughly 110, if I recall correctly. Again, AWESOME if you are well set up to take advantage of free hot water, not so much if you can't install the necessary hot water lines to do so.

I'm an engineer, not a purist. Engineering is about the art of the possible on a budget, and I happen to thrive on the challenge of very small budgets. In a perfect world, water chilling is 'best'. In this world of high cost, the realities of tenant/apartment life and do on, it's obvious that different solutions might be a better fit.

My point from the beginning here was to make sure that when choosing your cooling system, you choose the best for your application. 'Best' starts with the most efficient solution, cost no object, and then works backwards based on the constraints of the job.

Thanks for the response, but I was wanting to do a DIY chiller like the one that Budly made. It's a window unit turned into a chiller. I really want to get the heat outside through a window without the smell.

Thanks

 

[seebobski]

Hey buddy, I recognize that handle! Wazzap!



Me like. Kinda like a two speed transmission. If one was one Ton and the other was two Tons, you could have three steps! This is giving me ideas...



Dude, it's a chiller. Get it away from the garden and just run a couple of waterlines. If it's too close to the grow room neither will benefit because they'll make one another hot. The only way smell leaks out is if he has it mounted in the grow room window... in which case you'd want to seal the FRONT of the thing, everything and around the waterlines going into it. Otherwise, the cold water pipe running through the front of the unit will create a smelly condensate just like an AC unit will.

Did you miss diy chiller like budleydoright made.

 

[budleydoright]

Thanks for the response, but I was wanting to do a DIY chiller like the one that Budly made. It's a window unit turned into a chiller. I really want to get the heat outside through a window without the smell.

Thanks

Just keep the divider on the window AC your using. If that needs to be removed, I would just fabricate something out of cardboard, gaterboard or something like that.

 

[Edo]

Opticlimate with a rez, would that be a good idea?

The rez stands in a cold garage and you use air from outside to cool the rez, just pushing cold air into the water.

 

[seebobski]

And yes it's me what up! Just here to keep it real.

 

[TooHighTider]

I got you, bro- the answer is... ANYWHERE YOU LIKE!

Yes, really; the odor is in the air in the grow room. Water gets warmed up carrying heat out of your grow room and then passes through the chiller. The chiller cools the water and sends it back, without ever letting the water involved out of its own pipe.

Meanwhile, the heat is picked up by a Freon coil inside that waterline and carried to the chiller's compressor where it is compressed and heated exactly like an AC unit does. The hot gas then goes to the back and a fan blows air through another core to exhaust the heat.

Since there is no odor laden air getting anywhere near the unit, it will not create condensate with an odor in it. Therefore, this is totally smellproof. PERIOD.

AC can't touch that, either. Minisplits can, but here you need a tech to move lines. It's an issue they're working at overcoming. Meanwhile, water is and always will be a better medium for moving heat, and to paraphrase the late great Big Daddy Don Garlits himself, anything you can do to a minisplit, you can do to a chiller and get the same or greater benefit.

Ultimately, here's the breakdown; water chilling is a PITA if you're working with an impermanent situation. Once you've put down roots and can modify your place, the advantages of water cooling become both more attractive and more accessible.

This is why you won't see me talking a guy on a lease out of a minisplit, because the tool has to fit the job at hand as well as the circumstances. Nonetheless, chilling is ultimately the most efficient option, IF one is set up to take advantage of it properly.

This brings me to the Opticlimate units, which do AC (and presumably dehuey too?) inside the room and then emit heat by heating water up to roughly 110, if I recall correctly. Again, AWESOME if you are well set up to take advantage of free hot water, not so much if you can't install the necessary hot water lines to do so.

I'm an engineer, not a purist. Engineering is about the art of the possible on a budget, and I happen to thrive on the challenge of very small budgets. In a perfect world, water chilling is 'best'. In this world of high cost, the realities of tenant/apartment life and do on, it's obvious that different solutions might be a better fit.

My point from the beginning here was to make sure that when choosing your cooling system, you choose the best for your application. 'Best' starts with the most efficient solution, cost no object, and then works backwards based on the constraints of the job.

I did want to ask you about your ice boxes. Do you have 2 on lights and only one with the inline fan blowing down to the bucket? Whats your setup like?

Do you have any idea how much water you are collecting in the bucket(s)?

I'm in the design phase now and will run organic soil. I was planning on blowing down into a bucket with some activated charcoal and then a tube out of the room from there.

Thanks a lot

 

[budleydoright]

Opticlimate with a rez, would that be a good idea?

The rez stands in a cold garage and you use air from outside to cool the rez, just pushing cold air into the water.

Yes, that would work well.
If you are in a cold enough climate I would try to use a large water to air heat exchanger outside in the cold air and a smaller one in the grow. Both serviced off of the same rez. If you could get away with not using a refrigeration system, you could really save some money.


Here's a 22 x 22 from ebay for under 200 bucks.

 

[Ttystikk]

Did you miss diy chiller like budleydoright made.

Yeah, I'm new here. I do wish the guy would have mentioned this first.