Air condition more efficient ?

[budleydoright]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=20521&pictureid=797405

Hey Budly,

Is that a converted window unit?

It looks like it is. I found it on ebay(thanks for the search help), and it doesn't say. I really want the heat from my chiller to stay outside the house.

Thanks

Yes, it is a converted window shaker. Many commercial chillers use them as their base. In this case he simply cut the case down and painted it black. I know the connections to the chiller coil are a little fragile on this unit.


Shit, all this talk has me thinking about trying some of my old kit. I see 3-4 ton condensing units on craigslist all the time for $400. I could build a 4 ton chiller for under a grand.

Here's a good pic of the coaxial coil that can replace either the condensing or evaorative coil. refrigerant goes in the small tube.
With two of these you could make a water cooled chiller that produces both hot and cold water at the same time.

 

[DabOnDabs]

I'm confused. How do you cool the air w/ barebulbs. I know nothing about this stuff. I need pics. lol

 

[TooHighTider]

Yes, it is a converted window shaker. Many commercial chillers use them as their base. In this case he simply cut the case down and painted it black. I know the connections to the chiller coil are a little fragile on this unit.


Shit, all this talk has me thinking about trying some of my old kit. I see 3-4 ton condensing units on craigslist all the time for $400. I could build a 4 ton chiller for under a grand.

Here's a good pic of the coaxial coil that can replace either the condensing or evaorative coil. refrigerant goes in the small tube.
With two of these you could make a water cooled chiller that produces both hot and cold water at the same time.

Are they designed to sit in a window with the heat going outside?


I would love to see some pics and instructions if you get around to starting that project.

I would love to be able to save money and have a backup ready when something breaks down.

Thanks

 

[budleydoright]

Are they designed to sit in a window with the heat going outside?


I would love to see some pics and instructions if you get around to starting that project.

I would love to be able to save money and have a backup ready when something breaks down.

Thanks

Well originally it was made to go into a window. You just need the hardware, which I'm sure the seller would provide if asked.

If I do build another chiller I'll do a guide.

I always try to use off the shelf items in my grows. when shit brakes I need it fixed or replaced now.

 

[Ez Rider]

Cool thread

I've been using fresca sols with a large, unchilled res for a few years, and was always pretty happy with them. I added a 1hp chiller, and small insulated res last summer, and am stoked with the results. The initial setup is expensive, but it works great. The key is a good chiller. Those aquarium jobs are toys. Commercial grade is the way to go.

I've got a few ice boxes I used to cool my res before I got a chiller, I'm thinking about putting one inline with my intake fan and cws lines, maybe get my tent cooler than the room it sits in?

 

[TooHighTider]

Well originally it was made to go into a window. You just need the hardware, which I'm sure the seller would provide if asked.

If I do build another chiller I'll do a guide.

I always try to use off the shelf items in my grows. when shit brakes I need it fixed or replaced now.

I know what you mean.

I don't want to be handcuffed by waiting on something to be shipped or a repair guy that is busy until next week.

If I can DIY it myself and save money, then I can have a backup ready.

I guess in a pinch, I could always revert back to your original design and immerse the front of an ac in the rez.

Thanks for your hard work and sharing it here.

 

[Edo]

Yes, that would work well.
If you are in a cold enough climate I would try to use a large water to air heat exchanger outside in the cold air and a smaller one in the grow. Both serviced off of the same rez. If you could get away with not using a refrigeration system, you could really save some money.


Here's a 22 x 22 from ebay for under 200 bucks.

Would I need a vent/fan on the outside heat exchanger, I guess yes?

The fans inside would be controlled by a aircontroller, but how you would control the water-pump, if the temps are ok, there is no need for running the pump right? The pump should start and stop at the same time as the fans inside the room. Am I right?

 

[budleydoright]

Would I need a vent/fan on the outside heat exchanger, I guess yes?

The fans inside would be controlled by a aircontroller, but how you would control the water-pump, if the temps are ok, there is no need for running the pump right? The pump should start and stop at the same time as the fans inside the room. Am I right?

You would need a fan on both exchangers. Pump would run 100% off the time to keep from freezing in winter. You could reduce fan speed to control temp indoors. You will need your water to be below the dew point to facilitate dehumidifying. Running a chiller if the water goes above it would insure this and would be cheaper than using a dehuey.

I always envisioned a central rez with a true chiller circuit, an outdoor heat exhanger circuit and an air handler or indoor heat ex. You would then need some control to turn the chiller on if the load is high, turn the outdoor exchanger off if it is too warm outside etc.... I know it can work if things are properly sized. Unfortunately I don't know how to do the math to come up with the correct sizes.

I would absolutely figure out the math before delving into something like this.

 

[Edo]

Thanks for the info.

In my case I could use that system for maybe 6-7 months a year, the other 5-6 months I would need a AC or a Water Chiller, due to the temperatures.

 

[Edo]

Like ttystikk mentioned before that system would work until temps reach 60 F.

Just checked the climate dates of my area, what I wrote before was bull****

If I would run the lights at night I could use this system on 10 months/year, if I run the lights at day on 2 months/year

 

[Ttystikk]

You would need a fan on both exchangers. Pump would run 100% off the time to keep from freezing in winter. You could reduce fan speed to control temp indoors. You will need your water to be below the dew point to facilitate dehumidifying. Running a chiller if the water goes above it would insure this and would be cheaper than using a dehuey.

I always envisioned a central rez with a true chiller circuit, an outdoor heat exhanger circuit and an air handler or indoor heat ex. You would then need some control to turn the chiller on if the load is high, turn the outdoor exchanger off if it is too warm outside etc.... I know it can work if things are properly sized. Unfortunately I don't know how to do the math to come up with the correct sizes.

I would absolutely figure out the math before delving into something like this.

The first suggestion will run into problems. In every case when you run water outside where it might freeze, use RV antifreeze mix.

The second suggestion, with separate lines for various functions, is exactly what I'm building for my setup even now!

For the moment, water carries only cool, but I could adapt the chiller to heat a separate water circuit for many uses, including home heating. Right now, my half-assed solution is to run the hot, noisy chiller indoors in a spare bedroom in winter to gain the benefit of the heat.

I'm getting a programmable control system and I'll bet I could set it up to control such a water system; it could operate switches based on protocols like outside temperature, current heat load in the system, etc. Such a system could even conceivably handle HVAC for one's home as well as one's grow!

 

[budleydoright]

The first suggestion will run into problems. In every case when you run water outside where it might freeze, use RV antifreeze mix.

The second suggestion, with separate lines for various functions, is exactly what I'm building for my setup even now!

For the moment, water carries only cool, but I could adapt the chiller to heat a separate water circuit for many uses, including home heating. Right now, my half-assed solution is to run the hot, noisy chiller indoors in a spare bedroom in winter to gain the benefit of the heat.

I'm getting a programmable control system and I'll bet I could set it up to control such a water system; it could operate switches based on protocols like outside temperature, current heat load in the system, etc. Such a system could even conceivably handle HVAC for one's home as well as one's grow!

My room controller can do all of that with some mod. It was built off of a server room control board.

 

[VAtransplant]

I'm getting a programmable control system and I'll bet I could set it up to control such a water system; it could operate switches based on protocols like outside temperature, current heat load in the system, etc. Such a system could even conceivably handle HVAC for one's home as well as one's grow!

Hah, first time I had really browsed ic in the better part of a year was last night. Saw your vert thread, mention of how you left some other unnamed site, and didn't read anything about your water cooling. Hours later I was on a research-everything streak and googling w/c setups. While skimming a thread I saw someone replying to a guy with "hey ttystikk . . ." and thought it sounded familiar. Lo and behold.

Dunno what setup you're considering for monitoring temps/rH/controlling relays, but might I suggest arduino. I have about $80 in to mine, which included the arduino, ethernet shield (for updating web database and hosting web server so I can check shit from work), a 4 relay board, lcd screen, 4 switch power panel, temp and temp+humidity combo probes.

A few hours wiring it all up, many hours farting around with code to get it perfect. Voila.

apart, tinkering with it as I type this post.

 

[Ttystikk]

My room controller can do all of that with some mod. It was built off of a server room control board.

Tell me more! I'm looking at buying Growtronix to do the same thing, but if you have a better/cheaper alternative that fills my needs I'm all about it.

 

[Ttystikk]

Hah, first time I had really browsed ic in the better part of a year was last night. Saw your vert thread, mention of how you left some other unnamed site, and didn't read anything about your water cooling. Hours later I was on a research-everything streak and googling w/c setups. While skimming a thread I saw someone replying to a guy with "hey ttystikk . . ." and thought it sounded familiar. Lo and behold.

Dunno what setup you're considering for monitoring temps/rH/controlling relays, but might I suggest arduino. I have about $80 in to mine, which included the arduino, ethernet shield (for updating web database and hosting web server so I can check shit from work), a 4 relay board, lcd screen, 4 switch power panel, temp and temp+humidity combo probes.

A few hours wiring it all up, many hours farting around with code to get it perfect. Voila.

View Image

apart, tinkering with it as I type this post.

View Image

This looks interesting, it also looks like an order of magnitude more complex to learn than a more consumer ready solution. Growtronix is expandable to nutrient control, flood detection, home security, etc.

 

[VAtransplant]

This looks interesting, it also looks like an order of magnitude more complex to learn than a more consumer ready solution. Growtronix is expandable to nutrient control, flood detection, home security, etc.

Well, certainly not plug and play. Most of it is extremely simple though, in fact, a lot of people buy their kids Arduinos as an introduction to programming. Reliable, low power consumption, can use just about any sensor available. Wouldn't be surprised if growtronix is somehow related to Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

Basically connect sensors with jumper wires (so, three seconds to connect a temperature sensor)... with the data wire plugging in to say..arduino's #6 pin. Say arduino's pin #7 then triggers a relay with your water pump, and #8 to another relay for your fan. Then:

#define TEMP_BUS 6
#define WATERPUMP 7
#define FAN 8

OneWire oneWire(TEMP_BUS);
DallasTemperature sensors(&oneWire);
int maxTemp = 80; //Temp to kick stuff on at

sensors.begin();

then in the loop of your little code:

float currentTemp = sensors.getTempFByIndex(0);
if(currentTemp > maxTemp) {
digitalWrite(WATERPUMP, HIGH);
digitalWrite(FAN, HIGH);
} else if (currentTemp < (maxTemp - 5)) {
digitalWrite(WATERPUMP, LOW);
digitalWrite(FAN, LOW);
}
delay(10000);

That's literally all there is to it. You get the temperature of the probe (or probes) every 10 seconds. If it's above your max set temperature, flip on some stuff. If it's <75 (or whatever threshold you want) flip em off. Additional sensors are read in similar fashion. Nothing very technical about it, extremely customizable, expandable, etc. $20 for the board, $6 for 4 temp/humidity sensors, $8 for relay board, $12 for LCD screen. Wire outlets or devices as neatly or ghetto as you want (as long as no fire hazard of course) and you're set. Shit, you can have light sensors, float switches, distance sensors, soil moisture sensors, human detection sensors, the list goes on. Give it a google some day if you're interested, I'm sure you'd find it 10x easier to set up than the whole water cooling thing was initially.

 

[budleydoright]

Mine is based off of a server room control board.

 

[Ttystikk]

Well, certainly not plug and play. Most of it is extremely simple though, in fact, a lot of people buy their kids Arduinos as an introduction to programming. Reliable, low power consumption, can use just about any sensor available. Wouldn't be surprised if growtronix is somehow related to Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

Basically connect sensors with jumper wires (so, three seconds to connect a temperature sensor)... with the data wire plugging in to say..arduino's #6 pin. Say arduino's pin #7 then triggers a relay with your water pump, and #8 to another relay for your fan. Then:

#define TEMP_BUS 6
#define WATERPUMP 7
#define FAN 8

OneWire oneWire(TEMP_BUS);
DallasTemperature sensors(&oneWire);
int maxTemp = 80; //Temp to kick stuff on at

sensors.begin();

then in the loop of your little code:

float currentTemp = sensors.getTempFByIndex(0);
if(currentTemp > maxTemp) {
digitalWrite(WATERPUMP, HIGH);
digitalWrite(FAN, HIGH);
} else if (currentTemp < (maxTemp - 5)) {
digitalWrite(WATERPUMP, LOW);
digitalWrite(FAN, LOW);
}
delay(10000);

That's literally all there is to it. You get the temperature of the probe (or probes) every 10 seconds. If it's above your max set temperature, flip on some stuff. If it's <75 (or whatever threshold you want) flip em off. Additional sensors are read in similar fashion. Nothing very technical about it, extremely customizable, expandable, etc. $20 for the board, $6 for 4 temp/humidity sensors, $8 for relay board, $12 for LCD screen. Wire outlets or devices as neatly or ghetto as you want (as long as no fire hazard of course) and you're set. Shit, you can have light sensors, float switches, distance sensors, soil moisture sensors, human detection sensors, the list goes on. Give it a google some day if you're interested, I'm sure you'd find it 10x easier to set up than the whole water cooling thing was initially.

Well, even to someone who coded in BASIC when it was new, the above looks intimidating. I'm assuming they include a tutorial to the programming language?

Does this solution offer graphing, charting, data logging, etc? Can I write programs for it in Excel?

The last fucking thing I want to do is hunt for bugs in my programming to explain why my growroom is going crazy.

Honestly, this is a solution I'd be a lot more comfortable with if I had the chance to learn the whole system from someone who knew it really well.

By comparison, plumbing up my whole water cooling system was done completely intuitively, and ended up including tricks the techs told me they'd never seen before. It's all about where our natural talents lie; you're a programmer, I'm a glorified plumber!

 

[budleydoright]

You can find many designs and software that is shared. If you can follow directions you can build the controller of your dreams!

 

[Ttystikk]

You can find many designs and software that is shared. If you can follow directions you can build the controller of your dreams!

..knowing where to look helps, and boy do I have some directions for you if you think they're any panacea!

I've been a tech geek, then the world moved on. It is not as easy as computer programmers make out, or everyone would code.

Grobot is a toy made from the same plastic as an iMac. I don't want a toy, but I don't want to learn a programming language to get it to read my CO² sensor, either.

I'm not being 'bitchy', I'm tired of shitty programming interfaces being presented as solutions in the twenty first century. A good user interface is not as easy as it sounds, is worth its weight in GOLD in terms of time saved and mistakes avoided, and is thus a feature that's well worth paying for. Why don't people value it?

Growtronix has built a powerful, modular system that goes together like the ethernet network it is, I don't need to code to program it, yet I retain all the power and flexibility. Yes, it isn't as inexpensive as the above solutions, but when I call and want support, I'll get it. That too is well worth paying for.

Someday, when I have the time it will take to slog through the interface protocols and the coding bits and the wiring for sensors and relays and writing software for graphs, this sounds like a great solution. I'm being honest when I say that I barely have time for my own innovations.