Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[TheSilverMullet]

Don't be too hard on yourself milky.

For two bags of soil that's pretty amazing.

 

[milkyjoe]

It certainly gave me new appreciation for Tainio

 

[TheSilverMullet]

So far I'm pretty happy with the AEA products both in the greenhouse and under lights.

 

[milkyjoe]

Nice

 

[furrywall11]

@milky that's the outdoor version of a yoghurt cup grow, lol

Silvermullet, nice!

 

[odkin]

Silvermullet- those are some healthy, vibrant looking girls! Do you use the AEA products strictly foliar, or do you feed/drench as well?

 

[milkyjoe]

@milky that's the outdoor version of a yoghurt cup grow, lol

Silvermullet, nice!

I will tell you what. Next time a hydro guy says my pH was off by 0.2 ima just laugh. Given a couple yrs of cover cropping I could fix this soil. Just too lazy

 

[TheSilverMullet]

Silvermullet- those are some healthy, vibrant looking girls! Do you use the AEA products strictly foliar, or do you feed/drench as well?

Mostly foliar but I drenched a couple times with the 2 part AEA Special Blend.

Pretty much ran through all the products I bought this season so I'm kinda just letting things play out as they will from now on.

Gary gave me this recipe for bud set and I followed the basic instructions and ratios.

"For the Bud Initiation program:
the ratios for 1,000 sq. ft. of foliar application are:

6 oz. Sea Stim
1.5 oz. Salute Mn
3 oz. Sea Shield
1.6 gal water minimum to cover the foliage uniformly without beading up or running off the leaves.

Apply this solution once at 2 weeks prior to flowering and again 7 days before flower. You might find that one of the applications may be sufficient so I would try some plants with one app. at 2 weeks prior to flower, some plants at just 1 week prior to flower and some with both apps. Also, leave some with no application so you can see the difference between treated and control."

 

[Cep]

Milky, what strain is that? Did you treat that soil with a wetting agent? Way to endeavor to persevere.

 

[milkyjoe]

KQ. No...but I wish I would have. Every single branch seems to have a different def. I clearly see now how roots relate to branches

Edit...btw, do you have a formula for coco wet/yucca

 

[Cep]

Well the remedy is easy: a different foliar for each branch.

Yeah, I like the growth spurt you see when roots, after being locked into the pattern of the drip line, let loose into that newly soaked soil after a heavy rain.

 

[milkyjoe]

Stupid me...I thought it might be complicated.

Telling you...kq might go with blue dream...for certain green crack. Sweet smell though that may not work in every market

 

[jd123]

I went to a farm today that had some gigantic plants. All easy double digits and super healthy. The guys soil looked like straight up mud. He buys this mix from a dude who composts whole dead animals and mixes that with bark and loamy dirt from the hillsides of his land.

He removes peoples dead horses, pigs, sheep, cows, etc...Digs a big ass hole, throws them in and lets them decompose. They turn into this god awful gelatinous like substance and he mixes that by the loader full into his dirt piles. The batches are super inconsistent. Looks like just normal dirt and there's almost zero aeration. I've seen three gardens this year with big healthy plants all using his mud. Most haven't done much other types of fertilizing besides maybe a liquid feed once in awhile or light top dressing here and there.

All these guys get good sun, have large containers or holes, lots of good water and some prior growing experience. But none really actually know much about plants or soil. Not like you guys who frequently post on this thread. Sometimes I wonder why I spend so much time trying to learn about plants when somebody can just buy mud with rotten animals in it and have a killer season. Cannabis is one hell of a plant.

 

[FatherEarth]

I think more than anything the most important move is to have way more dirt than you think you need. .. as long as it's not totally devoid of any one thing and has plenty of soil to scavenge what it needs , it certainly will... I was listening to this talk about how microbes can transform certain elements into others and create nutrients the plant can use with the right starting blocks... For instance potassium into calcium.... Atomic mass of potassium being 39 and calcium having an atomic weight of 40.. The microbes take hydrogen with the atomic mass of 1 and add that to the potassium to make calcium. That was just a simple example of some of the microbial magic living soils are capable of. It was mentioned there are much more complex conversions that occur as well, some unexplainable...

So you can still slay it @ harvest even with unbalanced soil, provided you used enough of it. I've seen guys with horribly locked up soils that were way out of balance still doing damn good given the conditions of the soil. The question is how much fungal and insect pressure are they experiencing, and what does their end product look like? I've toured a few gardens with big plants ..and to most people they would say they appear healthy... When truly they are really hanging by a thread or just waiting for the right conditions to spiral out of control...I agree 100% cannabis is a truly amazing plant...

 

[FatherEarth]

Furry wall mentioned molasses and made me remember what someone said to me the other day about using molasses and extracts. That plants grown with molasses vs organic cane sugar or bleached sugar produce darker colored extracts. I wouldn't use cane sugar for a number of reasons but I thought it could possibly have some merit... Could also be total bullshit since it came to me randomly out of social media.. Anyone ever hear of this? FTR I've def seen molasses grown plants that produced super light sun bright colored extracts... And also darker gold and brown depending on age....

FE

 

[plastochron]

I think more than anything the most important move is to have way more dirt than you think you need. .. as long as it's not totally devoid of any one thing and has plenty of soil to scavenge what it needs , it certainly will... I was listening to this talk about how microbes can transform certain elements into others and create nutrients the plant can use with the right starting blocks... For instance potassium into calcium.... Atomic mass of potassium being 39 and calcium having an atomic weight of 40.. The microbes take hydrogen with the atomic mass of 1 and add that to the potassium to make calcium. That was just a simple example of some of the microbial magic living soils are capable of. It was mentioned there are much more complex conversions that occur as well, some unexplainable...

FE,

was the bio transmutation talk you listened to online? if so could you please link?

i'm open to believing earth shattering phenomena, but only after being presented with some strong supporting evidence... when the phenomena in question is so counter to the existing scientific body of knowledge it seems reasonable to me that the burden of proof be fairly steep.

i've seen some anecdotal claims from tainio but i'd really like to see some methodical work published by an independet third party entity.

 

[plastochron]

Mostly foliar but I drenched a couple times with the 2 part AEA Special Blend.

Pretty much ran through all the products I bought this season so I'm kinda just letting things play out as they will from now on.

Gary gave me this recipe for bud set and I followed the basic instructions and ratios.

"For the Bud Initiation program:
the ratios for 1,000 sq. ft. of foliar application are:

6 oz. Sea Stim
1.5 oz. Salute Mn
3 oz. Sea Shield
1.6 gal water minimum to cover the foliage uniformly without beading up or running off the leaves.

Apply this solution once at 2 weeks prior to flowering and again 7 days before flower. You might find that one of the applications may be sufficient so I would try some plants with one app. at 2 weeks prior to flower, some plants at just 1 week prior to flower and some with both apps. Also, leave some with no application so you can see the difference between treated and control."

High Mn for initiating flowering? Very interesting... I've always heard that high Ca and B are very good for that. Did the AEA guys say what the logic behind the Mn bump for flower initiation?

Did you notice a significant difference between the treated and controlled plants?

 

[FatherEarth]

PlastO-

Mn regulates enzymatic functions...

Arden Andersen calls manganese "the element of life", and says that manganese "brings the electrical charge into the seed, creating the magnetic force to draw the other elements into the seed." (Science in Agriculture p236.) In Eco-Farm, Walters credits manganese with with aiding the oxidase enzyme in carrying oxygen, and entering into the oxidation and reduction reactions needed in carbohydrate metabolism and in seed formation; more clues that manganese has a strong connection with oxygen. Regarding manganese in animal nutrition, Walters tells us that an excess of manganese increases the need for iron, while a manganese deficiency results in leg deformities in calves, eggs not formed correctly, degeneration of testicles, offspring born dead, and delayed heat periods, and also says that an excess of calcium and phosphorus may lead to a manganese deficiency. (Eco-Farm p366)

We definitely know that manganese is necessary for the development of viable seeds. The most common and obvious sign of manganese deficiency is in the almond family. Peaches, nectarines and apricots with split-open pits containing a shriveled seed are the prime example. Dan Skow has some interesting insights on this from the Carey Reams school of thought: "If there is no Manganese in the seed, it will swell up and rot [rather than sprouting]. Manganese has a high atomic weight, 54.9380, meaning it has more power than nutrients in the surrounding soil. [Manganese] puts into play the magnetism necessary to draw nutrients into the seed to feed it and its emerging root system. When there is a shortfall for manganese, the entire fertility program has to be adjusted to create enough energy to pull more manganese." ( Mainline Farming for Century 21p59.) Skow recommends a foliar spray of manganese mixed with phosphoric acid to easily correct manganese deficiency problems, and tells us that manganese is what is needed to ensure regular pecan crops with filled hulls.

Moving on to human nutrition, Elson Haas tells us that manganese is an essential part of the superoxide dismutase enzyme found in the mitochondria, the energy factories in the cells. Manganese also activates the enzymes necessary for the body to use biotin, thiamine (B 1 ), vitamin C, and choline. (Staying Healthy with Nutrition p207). Sally Fallon writes that manganese is "..needed for healthy nerves, a healthy immune system and blood sugar regulation....also plays a part in the formation of mother's milk and in the growth of healthy bones. Deficiency may lead to trembling hands, seizures, and lack of coordination. Excessive milk consumption may cause manganese deficiency as calcium can interfere with manganese absorption...phosphorus antagonizes manganese as well. (Nourishing Traditions p44).

 

[FatherEarth]

Yes and No.. I'm Not sure where it came from ..?

I actually stumbled upon it while listening to some soil lectures I downloaded a few years ago. Pretty sure it's a Dan K and John lecture. If you want I can possibly email a copy of the MP3... I also have a few PDFs research papers you would probably be interested in...


FE

FE,

was the bio transmutation talk you listened to online? if so could you please link?

i'm open to believing earth shattering phenomena, but only after being presented with some strong supporting evidence... when the phenomena in question is so counter to the existing scientific body of knowledge it seems reasonable to me that the burden of proof be fairly steep.

i've seen some anecdotal claims from tainio but i'd really like to see some methodical work published by an independet third party entity.

 

[milkyjoe]

High Mn for initiating flowering? Very interesting... I've always heard that high Ca and B are very good for that. Did the AEA guys say what the logic behind the Mn bump for flower initiation?

Did you notice a significant difference between the treated and controlled plants?

Look first at the sea stim...a huge dose of kelp. That is the key. It manipulates hormones...think what jacked up insulin does to you. It pretty much assures you that cytokinins become dominate over auxins.

This prevents true stretch...node spacing increasing provided you have enough nutrtional support. The sea shield.

Having luxury levels of Mn signals the plant that it has what it needs to make mucho seed...so it sets lots of bud.

But the main key is manipulate those hormones. Without that the rest won't work.

Just my guess though.

Btw...coot has pointed out sprouted corn seed teas are also powerful cytokinin manipulators